How can you prove he falsified it?David N'Gog wrote:In 2011, there is no place for falsifying racism.
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46 posters
Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
- Post n°391
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:07 am
David N'Gog-
- Posts : 138
- Post n°392
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by David N'Gog Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:08 am
ResurrectionRooney wrote:How can you prove he falsified it?David N'Gog wrote:In 2011, there is no place for falsifying racism.
How can you prove he didn't?
Last edited by David N'Gog on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
- Post n°393
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:08 am
Evra is a liar. Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? One day Evra will actually get racially abused for real and no-one will believe him.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
- Post n°394
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:22 am
Innocent until proven guilty.David N'Gog wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:How can you prove he falsified it?
How can you prove he didn't?
Evra has never accused anybody in English football of being racist, apart from Suarez.Scott wrote:Evra is a liar. Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? One day Evra will actually get racially abused for real and no-one will believe him.
Laurencio-
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- Post n°395
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Laurencio Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:25 am
David N'Gog wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:How can you prove he falsified it?
How can you prove he didn't?
There's this thing called innocent until proven guilty. If you can't prove Suarez used racist claims, he's considered innocent. If you can't prove Evra falsified his claim then he's innocent. However! And I stress this. If neither can be proved it does not actually make Evra's claim false, it simply isn't enough evidence to consider Suarez guilty. In this case he may very well be guilty but we can't prove it, or he may very well be innocent but we can't prove Evra is lying. One does not automatically conclude the other.
The only way we can prove either case would be to know exactly what was said at all times during the match. There are a few ways of doing this, but most are far too expensive for the FA to even consider it.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
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- Post n°396
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:32 am
Laurencio wrote:David N'Gog wrote:
How can you prove he didn't?
There's this thing called innocent until proven guilty. If you can't prove Suarez used racist claims, he's considered innocent. If you can't prove Evra falsified his claim then he's innocent. However! And I stress this. If neither can be proved it does not actually make Evra's claim false, it simply isn't enough evidence to consider Suarez guilty. In this case he may very well be guilty but we can't prove it, or he may very well be innocent but we can't prove Evra is lying. One does not automatically conclude the other.
The only way we can prove either case would be to know exactly what was said at all times during the match. There are a few ways of doing this, but most are far too expensive for the FA to even consider it.
Yes, I agree with you, I was using the phrase ironically.
The presumption of innocence only really applies to Criminal Law cases anyway, I have no idea if the FA follows that procedure. Innocent until proven guilty only matters in so far as whether the government should punish him, it doesn't mean he didn't actually do it, and there's no reason that, when judging the player, when judging his character, we shouldn't use the much fairer method of balance of probabilities, rather than weight it in favour of the person we're judging. We don't do this in any other area of life.
The fact that the main defence, the only defence, of Suarez from Liverpool fans has been 'innocent until proven guilty' says a lot about Liverpool FC when it comes to racism, they are only concerned with whether Suarez gets punished or not, whether it can be case-iron proven that he actually said it, regardless of whether he actually did, because of this misguided belief that no-one did anything wrong until it was proven.
I've not heard anyone give a genuine explanation of why Patrice Evra would invent this claim, how does it serve his interest? If we are talking rationally about whether Suarez did what he's accused of or not, that is the first question we must answer. If we are preparing a case to present against him court, then we must come up with some incontrovertible proof because the system is weighted in his favour. Fortunately we are not in a court of law.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°397
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:32 am
Some people just cant help themselves, what a fucking life must be at college today. It must get so boring for some people they must constantely have a go and certain things or people on the internet, im actually starting to believe someone is actually obssesed with Liverpool football club and its players and its manager King Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish. Or should i say obssesed with trying to put the great name of Liverpool football club to shame i wonder what will be the next story we hear from this geek.
Me and my big words
Me and my big words
Guest- Guest
- Post n°398
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:36 am
RR is so damn biased. 
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
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- Post n°399
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:38 am
Alan wrote:Some people just cant help themselves, what a fucking life must be at college today. It must get so boring for some people they must constantely have a go and certain things or people on the internet, im actually starting to believe someone is actually obssesed with Liverpool football club and its players and its manager King Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish. Or should i say obssesed with trying to put the great name of Liverpool football club to shame i wonder what will be the next story we hear from this geek.
That devious bastard is putting your club's name to shame, you are just blinded because he is one of your best players in history. Liverpool players were never accused of racism under Hodgson or Benitez were they? You didn't see Hodgson or Benitez abusing fellow managers on the touchline because the opposing manager rightly disagreed with a decision. They didn't have meetings with the referees to gain benefits either.
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°400
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:38 am
Do you think we should apply innocent until proven guilty in all areas of life?ahlycotc wrote:RR is so damn biased.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°401
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:39 am
ahlycotc wrote:RR is so damn biased.
I think he needs help, he is even wanting Fergie sacked at Manchester United.
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°402
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:41 am
Alan wrote:ahlycotc wrote:RR is so damn biased.
I think he needs help, he is even wanting Fergie sacked at Manchester United.
That sort of goes against the idea that I'm biased then, doesn't it? I question the position of a man most United fans see as a god, a guy who will have a statue of him erected at United after he retires/dies, I also say people like Fletcher, who is very popular with United fans, are shit footballers, and you guys think I am biased? Wrong. I just understand football more than what you do.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°403
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:43 am
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Alan wrote:
I think he needs help, he is even wanting Fergie sacked at Manchester United.
That sort of goes against the idea that I'm biased then, doesn't it? I question the position of a man most United fans see as a god, a guy who will have a statue of him erected at United after he retires/dies, I also say people like Fletcher, who is very popular with United fans, are shit footballers, and you guys think I am biased? Wrong. I just understand football more than what you do.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°404
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:43 am
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Do you think we should apply innocent until proven guilty in all areas of life?ahlycotc wrote:RR is so damn biased.
What exactly do you mean? It already is applied in the legal system.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°405
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:57 am
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Alan wrote:Some people just cant help themselves, what a fucking life must be at college today. It must get so boring for some people they must constantely have a go and certain things or people on the internet, im actually starting to believe someone is actually obssesed with Liverpool football club and its players and its manager King Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish. Or should i say obssesed with trying to put the great name of Liverpool football club to shame i wonder what will be the next story we hear from this geek.
That devious bastard is putting your club's name to shame, you are just blinded because he is one of your best players in history. Liverpool players were never accused of racism under Hodgson or Benitez were they? You didn't see Hodgson or Benitez abusing fellow managers on the touchline because the opposing manager rightly disagreed with a decision. They didn't have meetings with the referees to gain benefits either.
You are in need of some help, and King Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish is not a racist and he never had a meeting with the referees to gain any benefits and you know you have absolutly know proof of these accusations. You are going on about our other managers, and just last week you posted a comment saying that Sam Allardyce should have hit Rafa Benitez at a Liverpool v Blackburn game at Anfield.
And what about your own Mr Ferguson has he never swore at people before in his life, and i dont see you posting on here everyday about what he has done wrong or other managers. You just cant seem to handle the fact that King Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish is back at Liverpool, and why not post something about what Bryan Robson has done wrong the man that is a Manchester United ambassador was on TV telling people how to sell football clubs and make money. And yes it was also claimed that Mr Ferguson was also involved in some doggie going on's so maybe we should all say that he is guilty, and say the so called great man of Manchester United is corrupt and he is a devoius basterd something like you seem yourself.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°406
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:01 am
RR is blinded by hatred of LFC. Poor thing.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°407
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:05 am
Oh lawd not this again.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
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- Post n°408
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:08 am
Well, it's not in most cases, but regardless, I mean do you think we should assume that no-one has done anything wrong unless there is incontrovertible proof of it. If there was an OJ Simpson style case today, where it couldn't be proved beyond reasonable doubt that a player had murdered someone, but we were pretty fucking sure he did regardless, would you be happy for your club to sign that player?ahlycotc wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:Do you think we should apply innocent until proven guilty in all areas of life?
What exactly do you mean? It already is applied in the legal system.
Alan wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:
That devious bastard is putting your club's name to shame, you are just blinded because he is one of your best players in history. Liverpool players were never accused of racism under Hodgson or Benitez were they? You didn't see Hodgson or Benitez abusing fellow managers on the touchline because the opposing manager rightly disagreed with a decision. They didn't have meetings with the referees to gain benefits either.
You are in need of some help, and King Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish is not a racist and he never had a meeting with the referees to gain any benefits and you know you have absolutly know proof of these accusations. You are going on about our other managers, and just last week you posted a comment saying that Sam Allardyce should have hit Rafa Benitez at a Liverpool v Blackburn game at Anfield.
And what about your own Mr Ferguson has he never swore at people before in his life, and i dont see you posting on here everyday about what he has done wrong or other managers. You just cant seem to handle the fact that King Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish is back at Liverpool, and why not post something about what Bryan Robson has done wrong the man that is a Manchester United ambassador was on TV telling people how to sell football clubs and make money. And yes it was also claimed that Mr Ferguson was also involved in some doggie going on's so maybe we should all say that he is guilty, and say the so called great man of Manchester United is corrupt and he is a devoius basterd something like you seem yourself.
I criticise Ferguson every week you stupid prick, I even said last week that he should retire. I don't like the fact that Dalglish is back at Liverpool, because he's trying to bring back racism into football, driving all the blacks out of Liverpool. I don't even remember Bryan Robson, I didn't see that documentary, I don't really give a fuck about him I'm afraid. If he was behaving in a corrupt way then fuck him, I hope he loses his battle with cancer. Is that good enough for you?
I have criticised Sir Alex in the past for his corrupt behaviour, such as his selection of his son and his boss's son in Man Utd squads, we have had arguments about this very fucking issue! I do think he is a pretty devious man, but he's not nearly as bad as Kenneth Dalglish. He has never supported racism for one thing.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°409
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:09 am
'because he's trying to bring back racism into football, driving all the blacks out of Liverpool'
Guest- Guest
- Post n°410
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:11 am
RR, I'd like you to post evidence to back up your claims that King Kenny supports racism.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°411
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:12 am
Scott why are you entertaining his ideas?Scott wrote:RR, I'd like you to post evidence to back up your claims that King Kenny supports racism.
ResurrectionRooney-
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Supports : United
- Post n°412
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:12 am
Scott wrote:RR, I'd like you to post evidence to back up your claims that King Kenny supports racism.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/dalglish-supports-suarez-in-racism-row-2373584.html
"The only thing I will say – and then it is put to bed – is that the football club and everyone at the football club is totally and utterly fully behind Luis Suarez,"
"There was an allegation after the game about him diving all over the place and there was an allegation from Patrice Evra.
"Obviously the two things are emotive but we support the wee man on both things"
Guest- Guest
- Post n°413
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:15 am
How is that backing racism, you stupid cunt?
Suarez has told Kenny he didn't make any racist claims and Kenny believes him, and is backing/getting behind him.
Suarez has told Kenny he didn't make any racist claims and Kenny believes him, and is backing/getting behind him.
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°414
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:17 am
Seems to me as if he is backing him regardless.
"the football club and everyone at the football club is totally and utterly fully behind Luis Suarez,"
It's not "If he is innocent then we back him" it's a declaration that Liverpool FC, and Dalglish in particular is supporting Luis Suarez, regardless.
"the football club and everyone at the football club is totally and utterly fully behind Luis Suarez,"
It's not "If he is innocent then we back him" it's a declaration that Liverpool FC, and Dalglish in particular is supporting Luis Suarez, regardless.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°415
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Guest Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:18 am
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°416
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:22 am
If anyone here is to say that Luis Suarez didn't racially abuse Patrice Evra, rather than simply that it cannot be proven, the question they must answer is 'Why would Patrice Evra make it up, when he has no history of making up racial allegations?'.
Liverpool FC tried to avoid that question by fabricating stories about Evra (maybe they should have headlined it THE TRUTH?) playing the 'race card', but those stories were untrue.
If you Liverpool fans, if Dalglish, can't seriously answer that question, then I have to ask why you would continue to support Luis Suarez, unless you are happy to tolerate racism?
Liverpool FC tried to avoid that question by fabricating stories about Evra (maybe they should have headlined it THE TRUTH?) playing the 'race card', but those stories were untrue.
If you Liverpool fans, if Dalglish, can't seriously answer that question, then I have to ask why you would continue to support Luis Suarez, unless you are happy to tolerate racism?
Sean-
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- Post n°417
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Sean Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:22 am
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Seems to me as if he is backing him regardless.
"the football club and everyone at the football club is totally and utterly fully behind Luis Suarez,"
It's not "If he is innocent then we back him" it's a declaration that Liverpool FC, and Dalglish in particular is supporting Luis Suarez, regardless.
When have you ever heard a manager not come out in full support of their player in a situation like this? AVB has done the same thing with Terry.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
- Post n°418
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:25 am
Sean wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:Seems to me as if he is backing him regardless.
"the football club and everyone at the football club is totally and utterly fully behind Luis Suarez,"
It's not "If he is innocent then we back him" it's a declaration that Liverpool FC, and Dalglish in particular is supporting Luis Suarez, regardless.
When have you ever heard a manager not come out in full support of their player in a situation like this? AVB has done the same thing with Terry.
AVB spoke out against racism, said he believed it was a misunderstanding, supported the governing bodies continued campaigns against racism, and said it wasn't a distraction for Chelsea.
That is different to Dalglish's response, which is to unreservedly back 'the wee man', regardless of whether what he said is true, and say that Evra should be punished for daring to speak out.
Scuba Steve-
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- Post n°419
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by Scuba Steve Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:28 am
ResurrectionRooney wrote:If anyone here is to say that Luis Suarez didn't racially abuse Patrice Evra, rather than simply that it cannot be proven, the question they must answer is 'Why would Patrice Evra make it up, when he has no history of making up racial allegations?'.
If that is the case, then backing Evra's claims is saying that Suarez has a history of making racial comments. Can you prove this?
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
- Post n°420
Re: Luis Suarez made RACIST comments towards Patrice Evra
by ResurrectionRooney Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:32 am
Scuba Steve wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:If anyone here is to say that Luis Suarez didn't racially abuse Patrice Evra, rather than simply that it cannot be proven, the question they must answer is 'Why would Patrice Evra make it up, when he has no history of making up racial allegations?'.
If that is the case, then backing Evra's claims is saying that Suarez has a history of making racial comments. Can you prove this?
I don't agree with that at all. The equivalent question would be - 'Why would Luis Suarez call Evra a nigger in a match, when he has no history of making racial comments?' And the answer to that is simple - it is in his interest to wind up Evra during a game, and making racial comments would be a good way to do that.
How is it in Evra's interest to make up allegations about Suarez?
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