Official Arsenal FC Thread

Mr Leiva wrote:

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:I dread when Vermaelen has to go LB.

Sounds like when Hodge Podge put Agger left back.

He was shit there.

Best CD at the club though.

He is a CD?

Personally I feel the increase in central defensive stabilities outweighs the fullbacks, Koscielny will shine with a constant partner and Vermaelen is already a beast, an improvement in the heart of the defence has an added multiplier, because it sees twice the action and is twice as important in defending our weakness, that a fullback position doesn't.

I think our defence will not be weaker this season, probably stronger even, especially if we get another centre half.

It's our midfield that worries me.

ClarkY wrote:

Mr Leiva wrote:

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:I dread when Vermaelen has to go LB.

Sounds like when Hodge Podge put Agger left back.

He was shit there.

Best CD at the club though.

He is a CD?

Central defence

sound like a yank

Mr Leiva wrote:

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:I dread when Vermaelen has to go LB.

Sounds like when Hodge Podge put Agger left back.

He was shit there.

Best CD at the club though.

Vermaelen will be a lot better then Agger as a LB, because he's a lot faster, and full backs rely on pace quite a bit.

Obviously i'd rather he'd be a CB though.

Mr Leiva wrote:

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:I dread when Vermaelen has to go LB.

Sounds like when Hodge Podge put Agger left back.

He was shit there.

Best CD at the club though.

What kind of CD's does Hodgson make

Its more the fact that we will have Koscielny Djourou/Squillaci at CB that worries me.

Mr Leiva wrote:

ClarkY wrote:

Mr Leiva wrote:

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:I dread when Vermaelen has to go LB.

Sounds like when Hodge Podge put Agger left back.

He was shit there.

Best CD at the club though.

He is a CD?

Central defence

sound like a yank

Now I sound like an idiot, I should have knew

AriseForLife wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:I'm no idiot, I am exceptional.

You talk about holding people hostage, here's what I think of when I think of a hostage situation. I think of a person or organisation holding someone against their will, preventing them from going home to be with who they love, because they want something. That is exactly what Arsenal did to Fabregas, they held him at Arsenal against his will for years, and demanded what they call a transfer fee, what I call a ransom, to let him go home.

You are truly a fucking moron. How did we hold him at Arsenal against his will for years when it was HE who signed a deal to remain at the club for 8 years? If he really wanted to leave so badly he would not have signed such a long deal and he could have taken advantage of Article 13 long ago. Secondly we demanded a transfer fee because he was OUR player and HE had a valid contract so only a fucking idiot would say he Fabregas you can leave for free. This is nothing more than another fucking Anti-Arsenal retard coming in the Arsenal thread to stir up people with non-sense. Do us a favor and go kill yourself please.

Do not insult me, it is not conducive to good debate.

Fabregas was very young when he made that decision to sign that contract, I would hate to be tied to decisions I made 8 years ago or to tie myself down for 8 years now. There is a special exemption in European Law over Article 13 for football, however that does not stop it from being a human right, is simply means the courts cannot compel Arsenal to release him under current law.

I am not 'anti-Arsenal', nor am I a retard or an idiot, you really are extremely rude aren't you? I certainly will not kill myself either. I have already said in this thread that I have admired Arsenal for years, but this is a sad blot on the club's character.

I'm well aware of why you demanded a fee, I am talking about the ethics of it.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Ronaldo didn't want to go home, he wanted to make a career move, there's a massive difference.

How exactly is that a difference? Fabregas to Barcelona is a career move is it not? Leaving a club that hasn't won in years for a club that is basically the best on the planet for the last couple years. That is a career move that just happens to coincide with being his hometown club. Don't get it twisted.

Well for a start we paid above market value for Ronaldo whereas you just rode in and took him. Again, I ask you, putting the legalities of it aside, how would you feel if Guardiola sat outside your training ground watching Wilshere like a voyeur, then walked in and filled his head with lies, then offered him a contract far bigger than what Arsenal could offer him, despite Arsenal having developed him. Then when he was 'desperate' to leave, in the words of his own manager, started to demand an extortionate transfer fee, and money from Wilshere's contract to let him come home.

You tell me honestly, how would you feel about that?

Okay in our midfield there is the destroyer position, the player who protects the defence, the box to box player that links defence with attack and the more advanced playmaker, plus 2 wingers.

Let's do an inventory.

Destroyer: Song, Frimpong

Box to Box: Wilshere, Ramsey, Frimpong, Lansbury

Playmaker: Nasri*, Arshavin, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Chamberlain

Wingers: Nasri*, Arshavin, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamberlain, Miyaichi

So where are we light?

The Bat-Man wrote:Okay in our midfield there is the destroyer position, the player who protects the defence, the box to box player that links defence with attack and the more advanced playmaker, plus 2 wingers.

Let's do an inventory.

Destroyer: Song, Frimpong

Box to Box: Wilshere, Ramsey, Frimpong, Lansbury

Playmaker: Nasri*, Arshavin, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Chamberlain

Wingers: Nasri*, Arshavin, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamberlain, Miyaichi

So where are we light?

It's about quality, not quantity, go any more than 2 deep in any of those positions and you're looking at children, especially when you've doubled up in some positions.

The Bat-Man wrote:Okay in our midfield there is the destroyer position, the player who protects the defence, the box to box player that links defence with attack and the more advanced playmaker, plus 2 wingers.

Let's do an inventory.

Destroyer: Song, Frimpong

Box to Box: Wilshere, Ramsey, Frimpong, Lansbury

Playmaker: Nasri*, Arshavin, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Chamberlain

Wingers: Nasri*, Arshavin, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamberlain, Miyaichi

So where are we light?

It's nothing to do with being light. It's to do with not having the quality.

Arshavin won't play as the AM ever though unless Rosicky, Ramsey, Diaby and Wilshere were injured so no point putting him there. Same for Chamberlain, so no point listing them there.

Lansbury won't play this season imo unless it was for major injuries.

You forgot Dionkey.

The Bat-Man wrote:Okay in our midfield there is the destroyer position, the player who protects the defence, the box to box player that links defence with attack and the more advanced playmaker, plus 2 wingers.

Let's do an inventory.

Destroyer: Song, Frimpong

Box to Box: Wilshere, Ramsey, Frimpong, Lansbury

Playmaker: Nasri*, Arshavin, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Chamberlain

Wingers: Nasri*, Arshavin, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamberlain, Miyaichi

So where are we light?

Nasri looks to be off. Arshavin can be good but is too inconsistent, so looking at the team, it is quite weak.

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:You forgot Dionkey.

The Bat-Man wrote:Personally I feel the increase in central defensive stabilities outweighs the fullbacks, Koscielny will shine with a constant partner and Vermaelen is already a beast, an improvement in the heart of the defence has an added multiplier, because it sees twice the action and is twice as important in defending our weakness, that a fullback position doesn't.

I think our defence will not be weaker this season, probably stronger even, especially if we get another centre half.

It's our midfield that worries me.

You do realise that when Djourou was on that period of form he made Koscielny look good by covering up his mistakes, the only game Koscielny outplayed Djourou when he was on form was the Barcelona game. Even Djourou covered up a lot of Squillaci's mistakes, that's why the Squillaci - Djourou partnership was rubbish but not horrible.

#justsaying

Bendtner could play on Tuesday.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

The Bat-Man wrote:Okay in our midfield there is the destroyer position, the player who protects the defence, the box to box player that links defence with attack and the more advanced playmaker, plus 2 wingers.

Let's do an inventory.

Destroyer: Song, Frimpong

Box to Box: Wilshere, Ramsey, Frimpong, Lansbury

Playmaker: Nasri*, Arshavin, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Chamberlain

Wingers: Nasri*, Arshavin, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamberlain, Miyaichi

So where are we light?

It's about quality, not quantity, go any more than 2 deep in any of those positions and you're looking at children, especially when you've doubled up in some positions.

arsenalap11 wrote:

The Bat-Man wrote:Okay in our midfield there is the destroyer position, the player who protects the defence, the box to box player that links defence with attack and the more advanced playmaker, plus 2 wingers.

Let's do an inventory.

Destroyer: Song, Frimpong

Box to Box: Wilshere, Ramsey, Frimpong, Lansbury

Playmaker: Nasri*, Arshavin, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Chamberlain

Wingers: Nasri*, Arshavin, Gervinho, Walcott, Chamberlain, Miyaichi

So where are we light?

It's nothing to do with being light. It's to do with not having the quality.

Arshavin won't play as the AM ever though unless Rosicky, Ramsey, Diaby and Wilshere were injured so no point putting him there. Same for Chamberlain, so no point listing them there.

Lansbury won't play this season imo unless it was for major injuries.

Why do you think I listed the players instead of just counting them out, I used it as visual aid to see how much talent do we have in each position.

And I feel Arshavin is best in the centre and Wenger should play him there.

The Bat-Man wrote:Personally I feel the increase in central defensive stabilities outweighs the fullbacks, Koscielny will shine with a constant partner and Vermaelen is already a beast, an improvement in the heart of the defence has an added multiplier, because it sees twice the action and is twice as important in defending our weakness, that a fullback position doesn't.

I think our defence will not be weaker this season, probably stronger even, especially if we get another centre half.

It's our midfield that worries me.

You have an opinion on Laurent that I do not have. Nothing he has done aside from the lone Barcelona match has shown he has any reason to be at Arsenal. The ONLY way we will be stronger defensively is if we buy another class central defender otherwise its going to be another long season of dropping points.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Do not insult me, it is not conducive to good debate.

Fabregas was very young when he made that decision to sign that contract, I would hate to be tied to decisions I made 8 years ago or to tie myself down for 8 years now. There is a special exemption in European Law over Article 13 for football, however that does not stop it from being a human right, is simply means the courts cannot compel Arsenal to release him under current law.

I am not 'anti-Arsenal', nor am I a retard or an idiot, you really are extremely rude aren't you? I certainly will not kill myself either. I have already said in this thread that I have admired Arsenal for years, but this is a sad blot on the club's character.

I'm well aware of why you demanded a fee, I am talking about the ethics of it.

This isn't a debate. This is some Manchester United person coming into the Arsenal thread on more than one occasion and proceeding to say stupid shit and start pointless space taking back and forths. Fabregas was old enough to make the decision to sign the deal and he didn't do it without his agent present so don't give me that bullshit about him being young. Additionally, it wasn't until the years without trophies started to pile on that Fabregas to Barcelona even became an issue. Barcelona didn't even fucking care about Fabregas until he basically exploded at Arsenal. If he was so desperate to leave and we held him against his will, how come he never handed in a formal transfer request? I will tell you why, because he always knew he would be leaving eventually because Wenger wasn't going to stop him for going home. I'm sorry, but this is a joke. I wasn't insulting you, I am simply calling it like I see it. The logic you are attempting to bring into the situation is a joke and idiotic at best.

How exactly is this a blot on our character? Fabregas signs contract, Arsenal expect compensation for making him into a top class player. End of discussion. Ethics has no relevancy in this so-called debate so toss that bullshit into the trashcan also. Arsenal didn't owe Fabregas shit, we could have sent him to the reserves and let him rot, but we did not and turned a massive profit although they still got him for far under market value.

Well for a start we paid above market value for Ronaldo whereas you just rode in and took him. Again, I ask you, putting the legalities of it aside, how would you feel if Guardiola sat outside your training ground watching Wilshere like a voyeur, then walked in and filled his head with lies, then offered him a contract far bigger than what Arsenal could offer him, despite Arsenal having developed him. Then when he was 'desperate' to leave, in the words of his own manager, started to demand an extortionate transfer fee, and money from Wilshere's contract to let him come home.

You tell me honestly, how would you feel about that?

Bullshit, You did not pay above market value for Cristiano Ronaldo. Manchester United paid what Sporting asked of them for a player of his talent. We did not ride in and take Fabregas, Wenger's scouts had seen him play before and by his own admission he said he knew chances to play in the Barcelona first team would be harder than breaking into Arsenal's starting line up. Your scenario is nonsense because what lies did we fill Fabregas' head with and the contract wasn't an issue since the player chose us over Barcelona. End of discussion.

RRooney, you can not win against Arise, he know's his stuff and out knowledges us all



Fall back while you still can

19Jones19v wrote:RRooney, you can not win against Arise, he know's his stuff and out knowledges us all



Fall back while you still can

He does? Pretty sure his expert knowledge on Zapata, Udinese and Serie A is so vast he didn't even know what formation they played.

He talks shit then tries to "This is a fact, you are wrong" his way out of anyone proving him incorrect.

Jamie wrote:He does? Pretty sure his expert knowledge on Zapata, Udinese and Serie A is so vast he didn't even know what formation they played.

He talks shit then tries to "This is a fact, you are wrong" his way out of anyone proving him incorrect.

Really. Please explain to me when I didn't know what formation Udi played when he was there. I have been talking about Zapata for years and know plenty about him as a player.

Nice try, but fail.

AriseForLife wrote:

The Bat-Man wrote:Personally I feel the increase in central defensive stabilities outweighs the fullbacks, Koscielny will shine with a constant partner and Vermaelen is already a beast, an improvement in the heart of the defence has an added multiplier, because it sees twice the action and is twice as important in defending our weakness, that a fullback position doesn't.

I think our defence will not be weaker this season, probably stronger even, especially if we get another centre half.

It's our midfield that worries me.

You have an opinion on Laurent that I do not have. Nothing he has done aside from the lone Barcelona match has shown he has any reason to be at Arsenal. The ONLY way we will be stronger defensively is if we buy another class central defender otherwise its going to be another long season of dropping points.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Do not insult me, it is not conducive to good debate.

Fabregas was very young when he made that decision to sign that contract, I would hate to be tied to decisions I made 8 years ago or to tie myself down for 8 years now. There is a special exemption in European Law over Article 13 for football, however that does not stop it from being a human right, is simply means the courts cannot compel Arsenal to release him under current law.

I am not 'anti-Arsenal', nor am I a retard or an idiot, you really are extremely rude aren't you? I certainly will not kill myself either. I have already said in this thread that I have admired Arsenal for years, but this is a sad blot on the club's character.

I'm well aware of why you demanded a fee, I am talking about the ethics of it.

This isn't a debate. This is some Manchester United person coming into the Arsenal thread on more than one occasion and proceeding to say stupid shit and start pointless space taking back and forths. Fabregas was old enough to make the decision to sign the deal and he didn't do it without his agent present so don't give me that bullshit about him being young. Additionally, it wasn't until the years without trophies started to pile on that Fabregas to Barcelona even became an issue. Barcelona didn't even fucking care about Fabregas until he basically exploded at Arsenal. I wasn't insulting you, I am simply calling it like I see it. The logic you are attempting to bring into the situation is a joke and idiotic at best.

How exactly is this a plot on our character? Fabregas signs contract, Arsenal expect compensation for making him into a top class player. End of discussion. Ethics has no relevancy in this so-called debate so toss that bullshit into the trashcan also. Arsenal didn't owe Fabregas shit, we could have sent him to the reserves and let him rot, but we did not and turned a massive profit although they still got him for far under market value.

He was 19 when he signed the fucking contract! 19! There are some countries where it would be illegal to sign a contract that long at that age, I mean fucking hell, I don't know anyone over the age of 21 who would think that was reasonable. He made a bad call, his agents made a bad call, but it is very devious of Arsene Wenger to offer players of that age such massive contracts, and then try to ruin their careers by holding them to them. Think of the trophies Fabregas has missed out on because of what that man has done keeping him at Arsenal.

As for ethics, on the contrary, ethics is everything in this debate. I don't deny that Arsenal have acted wholly legally in this fiasco, I'm arguing that they have acted immorally, and in a way that has caused me to lose a lot of respect for Arsenal Football Club, which is hugely disappointing. It also amazes me how many Arsenal fans have this righteous indignation about how Barcelona should have paid them more money for a player they had stolen from them. It's like one of those bastard looters taking one of his plasma TVs back to Currys and demanding a refund.

Well for a start we paid above market value for Ronaldo whereas you just rode in and took him. Again, I ask you, putting the legalities of it aside, how would you feel if Guardiola sat outside your training ground watching Wilshere like a voyeur, then walked in and filled his head with lies, then offered him a contract far bigger than what Arsenal could offer him, despite Arsenal having developed him. Then when he was 'desperate' to leave, in the words of his own manager, started to demand an extortionate transfer fee, and money from Wilshere's contract to let him come home.

You tell me honestly, how would you feel about that?

Bullshit, You did not pay above market value for Cristiano Ronaldo. Manchester United paid what Sporting asked of them for a player of his talent. We did not ride in and take Fabregas, Wenger's scouts had seen him play before and by his own admission he said he knew chances to play in the Barcelona first team would be harder than breaking into Arsenal's starting line up. Your scenario is nonsense because what lies did we fill Fabregas' head with and the contract wasn't an issue since the player chose us over Barcelona. End of discussion.

We did, other offers stood at about half what we paid, there was a lot of controversy about it at the time, Magner and McManus, prominent United shareholders were very critical of the club over it. I reckon Wenger wasn't exactly open about the fact that if Fabregas ever wanted to move back to Barcelona he would have to personally pay Arsenal €1m a year. Still, forget about that, tell me how you would feel about the scenario without that bit.

Guardiola saunters up to Wilshere and says 'Hey, come and play for the Barcelona B team', Wilshere agrees and walks out on Arsenal and joins Barcelona for little or no compensation, because they've offered him far better terms than what you can. You tell me how you'd feel if he was desperate to come back, but had signed a contract when he was a teenager which Barcelona were using to stop him returning to Arsenal unless you paid them an extortionate transfer fee. Would you find that acceptable? Remember, don't take the legalities of contract into account, because we're only talking about ethics here.

AriseForLife wrote:

Jamie wrote:He does? Pretty sure his expert knowledge on Zapata, Udinese and Serie A is so vast he didn't even know what formation they played.

He talks shit then tries to "This is a fact, you are wrong" his way out of anyone proving him incorrect.

Really. Please explain to me when I didn't know what formation Udi played when he was there. I have been talking about Zapata for years and know plenty about him as a player.

Nice try, but fail.

You said this:

Well when you consider the difference between 2nd and 6th was only 4 goals it is impressive. Also they play a 4-4-2 with a midfielder dropping so it's no different that what we do in our 4-2-3-1. Udineses system is very similar to what we do.

Even I, someone who very rarely watches Serie A, knows they do not play 4-4-2. They are quite famous in fact for playing 3 at the back.

19Jones19v wrote:RRooney, you can not win against Arise, he know's his stuff and out knowledges us all



Fall back while you still can

Arise for Life is completely full of bullshit, he's just a lot more eloquent and persistent than most people on this forum. I remember he once tried to argue that strikers aren't attackers.

It is true, they are famous for it, alongside teams like Napoli.

How many times have you dragged this morality debate up RR?

Coatsy wrote:How many times have you dragged this morality debate up RR?

Twice.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:
He was 19 when he signed the fucking contract! 19! There are some countries where it would be illegal to sign a contract that long at that age, I mean fucking hell, I don't know anyone over the age of 21 who would think that was reasonable. He made a bad call, his agents made a bad call, but it is very devious of Arsene Wenger to offer players of that age such massive contracts, and then try to ruin their careers by holding them to them. Think of the trophies Fabregas has missed out on because of what that man has done keeping him at Arsenal.

Seriously! This is your reply.

As for ethics, on the contrary, ethics is everything in this debate. I don't deny that Arsenal have acted wholly legally in this fiasco, I'm arguing that they have acted immorally, and in a way that has caused me to lose a lot of respect for Arsenal Football Club, which is hugely disappointing. It also amazes me how many Arsenal fans have this righteous indignation about how Barcelona should have paid them more money for a player they had stolen from them. It's like one of those bastard looters taking one of his plasma TVs back to Currys and demanding a refund.

How was he stolen? I'm sick of morons saying we stole a player that WASN'T there player. Just because he went to the academy and CHOSE to leave does not mean he was stolen. Secondly ethic has NOTHING to do with this debate. Football is a business FIRST and foremost and in business you do what is best for your company, in this case Arsenal FC. Do you think anyone cares that you lost respect for the club holding on to their player who agreed to a contract extention which bumped his pay when he could have easily just said no thanks I want a transfer. You're insulting his intelligence if you really think him to be that gullible. Players like Vieira, Henry , and Pires all at one point said they would leave Arsenal if we didn't show resolve and they all ended up staying after talking with Wenger, same situation with Fabregas. Barcelona should have paid more money for a top class player of his caliber and there is nothing in this world you can say that will convince me or anyone else with a negative biased toward Arsenal otherwise.

We did, other offers stood at about half what we paid, there was a lot of controversy about it at the time, Magner and McManus, prominent United shareholders were very critical of the club over it. I reckon Wenger wasn't exactly open about the fact that if Fabregas ever wanted to move back to Barcelona he would have to personally pay Arsenal €1m a year. Still, forget about that, tell me how you would feel about the scenario without that bit.

Again you can't claim you overpaid when your club bid that amount. You paid the price that you felt would land him, hence you didn't pay over market value. There is no such thing as market value when it comes to players because any team can offset the balance of what a player is worth, i.e. Kaka for £103M to Manchester City or Fabregas to Barcelona for £35M.

Guardiola saunters up to Wilshere and says 'Hey, come and play for the Barcelona B team', Wilshere agrees and walks out on Arsenal and joins Barcelona for little or no compensation, because they've offered him far better terms than what you can. You tell me how you'd feel if he was desperate to come back, but had signed a contract when he was a teenager which Barcelona were using to stop him returning to Arsenal unless you paid them an extortionate transfer fee. Would you find that acceptable? Remember, don't take the legalities of contract into account, because we're only talking about ethics here.

And I will say again, ethics has NOTHING to do with this discussion because this is business and ethics have nothing to do with it. Your crusade to show Arsenal as unethical or immoral is fucking comedy in its purest form. You're turning on your emotions and approaching this as a fan ONLY when this is a business first and entertainment medium second. Secondly your example doesn't even remotely resemble the Fabregas situation. Wenger spoke with his dad and said he would have a fair chance to get first team football and BOOM he ended up being in the first team damn near immediately. We didn't say he come join the Arsenal Reserves, etc. There is no way for me to answer your scenario because you are tayloring it to your criteria.

Jamie wrote:You said this:

Well when you consider the difference between 2nd and 6th was only 4 goals it is impressive. Also they play a 4-4-2 with a midfielder dropping so it's no different that what we do in our 4-2-3-1. Udinese's system is very similar to what we do.

Even I, someone who very rarely watches Serie A, knows they do not play 4-4-2. They are quite famous in fact for playing 3 at the back.

So I made one mistake and suddenly that means I don't know anything? If I'm wrong I am wrong, never claimed to always be right, you guys do that for me.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Arise for Life is completely full of bullshit, he's just a lot more eloquent and persistent than most people on this forum. I remember he once tried to argue that strikers aren't attackers.

...and yet again you like so many others live in the past and prove you didn't understand anything I said even after it was explained over and over. Continue to beat a dead horse at your own leisure.

No, it's an example that shows you regularly bluff expertise on topics you clearly know nothing about.

You claim to know about Udinese - you didn't know their formation. You claim to know about Zapata - a few weeks ago you said you didn't know he had moved.

Jamie wrote:No, it's an example that shows you regularly bluff expertise on topics you clearly know nothing about.

You claim to know about Udinese - you didn't know their formation. You claim to know about Zapata - a few weeks ago you said you didn't know he had moved.

What does me not know he moved have to do with anything? I haven't paid much attention to many of the moves this summer so what's your point? Also how does my sentence say I am claiming to know about Udinese? I made a statement about them, I never said I knew about them. I said I know about Zapata and that is something I have said over and over and proven time and time again.

I regularly bluff expertise, interesting. What else have I bluffed? I really must see this.