Official Arsenal FC Thread

Another example I can think of is the time you said Messi doesn't play centrally.

Wrong, I said that Barcelona's formation places him out wide and you said "this season Barcelona moved him into the middle" and to which I replied (in the context of the discussion we were having) that Messi's primary formation with Barcelona had been playing forward and not in the middle. I remember that discussion plain as day. Nice try though.

AriseForLife wrote:Wrong, I said that Barcelona's formation places him out wide and you said "this season Barcelona moved him into the middle" and to which I replied (in the context of the discussion we were having) that Messi's primary formation with Barcelona had been playing forward and not in the middle. I remember that discussion plain as day.

I wouldn't have said that because Messi has played in the middle longer than this season.

I just checked and found a post from you saying you don't follow Barcelona. Interesting, you told me a few weeks ago you watch Barcelona, Real Madrid and Valencia regularly.

It's almost as if you were bluffing knowledge.

AriseForLife wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:
He was 19 when he signed the fucking contract! 19! There are some countries where it would be illegal to sign a contract that long at that age, I mean fucking hell, I don't know anyone over the age of 21 who would think that was reasonable. He made a bad call, his agents made a bad call, but it is very devious of Arsene Wenger to offer players of that age such massive contracts, and then try to ruin their careers by holding them to them. Think of the trophies Fabregas has missed out on because of what that man has done keeping him at Arsenal.

Seriously! This is your reply.

Correct, well done.

As for ethics, on the contrary, ethics is everything in this debate. I don't deny that Arsenal have acted wholly legally in this fiasco, I'm arguing that they have acted immorally, and in a way that has caused me to lose a lot of respect for Arsenal Football Club, which is hugely disappointing. It also amazes me how many Arsenal fans have this righteous indignation about how Barcelona should have paid them more money for a player they had stolen from them. It's like one of those bastard looters taking one of his plasma TVs back to Currys and demanding a refund.

How was he stolen? I'm sick of morons saying we stole a player that WASN'T there player. Just because he went to the academy and CHOSE to leave does not mean he was stolen. Secondly ethic has NOTHING to do with this debate. Football is a business FIRST and foremost and in business you do what is best for your company, in this case Arsenal FC. Do you think anyone cares that you lost respect for the club holding on to their player who agreed to a contract extention which bumped his pay when he could have easily just said no thanks I want a transfer. You're insulting his intelligence if you really think him to be that gullible. Players like Vieira, Henry , and Pires all at one point said they would leave Arsenal if we didn't show resolve and they all ended up staying after talking with Wenger, same situation with Fabregas. Barcelona should have paid more money for a top class player of his caliber and there is nothing in this world you can say that will convince me or anyone else with a negative biased toward Arsenal otherwise.

He was stolen because he was a Barcelona youth team player and you took him without their permission because of a contract loophole. I don't think anyone really cares if I have lost respect for Arsenal (although you obvious do). He only signed his contract when Barcelona didn't want him because he wouldn't get into their team, and over the long long period of 8 years, things changed.

If Arsenal didn't pay Barcelona anything for him, Barcelona shouldn't have had to pay anything to get him back. The justification for Arsenal signing Fabregas is that it was his free choice, but freedom of employment and his human rights are exactly what Arsenal denied to Fabregas.

I've already told you, I don't have a negative bias towards Arsenal.

We did, other offers stood at about half what we paid, there was a lot of controversy about it at the time, Magner and McManus, prominent United shareholders were very critical of the club over it. I reckon Wenger wasn't exactly open about the fact that if Fabregas ever wanted to move back to Barcelona he would have to personally pay Arsenal €1m a year. Still, forget about that, tell me how you would feel about the scenario without that bit.

Again you can't claim you overpaid when your club bid that amount. You paid the price that you felt would land him, hence you didn't pay over market value. There is no such thing as market value when it comes to players because any team can offset the balance of what a player is worth, i.e. Kaka for £103M to Manchester City or Fabregas to Barcelona for £35M.

Eh? Don't be ridiculous, of course there is market value and £12m for a guy who was 17 or 18, at the time, was well in excess of market value. When there are multiple bidders for a particular player it is easy to ascertain market value.

Guardiola saunters up to Wilshere and says 'Hey, come and play for the Barcelona B team', Wilshere agrees and walks out on Arsenal and joins Barcelona for little or no compensation, because they've offered him far better terms than what you can. You tell me how you'd feel if he was desperate to come back, but had signed a contract when he was a teenager which Barcelona were using to stop him returning to Arsenal unless you paid them an extortionate transfer fee. Would you find that acceptable? Remember, don't take the legalities of contract into account, because we're only talking about ethics here.

And I will say again, ethics has NOTHING to do with this discussion because this is business and nothing more. You're turning on your emotions and approaching this as a fan ONLY when this is a business first and entertainment medium second. Secondly your example doesn't even remotely resemble the Fabregas situation. Wenger spoke with his dad and said he would have a fair chance to get first team football and BOOM he ended up being in the first team damn near immediately. We didn't say he come join the Arsenal Reserves, etc.

If this is business and nothing more then you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with yourself. I accept that what Arsenal did was good business, it's ethically that I find it appalling. I only said Barcelona B team because I was trying to be realistic, Guardiola said that's about Wilshere's level, lets say he promises him a spot in the first team, and please try to answer the scenario without nitpicking it. As for being a first team player almost immediately, Fabregas didn't play a single League game for nearly a year after he signed.

Well that's what you said.

Also in many topics and I am sure others can witness this also I have said plenty of times I do not follow La Liga, but have watched Barcelona, RM and Valencia. I have said that time and time again. Watching a team and following a team are two completely different things. I watch Everton, but I don't follow them. I watch Bayer Leverkusen, but I don't follow them. I watch a lot of French football, but don't follow the teams. I've seen Barcelona, RM, and Valencia play more than any other Spanish clubs, but I do not follow the former two. I don't care for Spanish football (another thing I have said time and time again), as a matter of fact in the thread where I made a comment about Chiellini shitting on Pique I said this.

Want to backtrack some more?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Correct, well done.

Fail. Thank you come again.

He was stolen because he was a Barcelona youth team player and you took him without their permission because of a contract loophole. I don't think anyone really cares if I have lost respect for Arsenal (although you obvious do). He only signed his contract when Barcelona didn't want him because he wouldn't get into their team, and over the long long period of 8 years, things changed.

Again bullshit. Barcelona lost him fair and square end of discussion. I truly don't care about you or your level of respect for Arsenal. I don't have any feelings for you one way or another. Him signing his contact had nothing to do with Barcelona so please stop trying to introduce bogus information into the argument.

If Arsenal didn't pay Barcelona anything for him, Barcelona shouldn't have had to pay anything to get him back. The justification for Arsenal signing Fabregas is that it was his free choice, but freedom of employment and his human rights are exactly what Arsenal denied to Fabregas.

Give me a fucking break. Seriously go kill yourself after making this stupid ass comment.

I've already told you, I don't have a negative bias towards Arsenal.

Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night.

Eh? Don't be ridiculous, of course there is market value and £12m for a guy who was 17 or 18, at the time, was well in excess of market value. When there are multiple bidders for a particular player it is easy to ascertain market value.

Again wrong. Theo Walcott was a teenager and we paid £12M for him, later reduced to £9.1M. You paid £12.24M for Cristiano Ronaldo because that is what you felt he was worth. Market value is not set in stone and is not a guideline for what a player is should be worth. Arsenal are proof that market value doesn't mean shit. When there are multiple bidders for a particular player the team that decides to pay an amount agreeable to the club is who wins, plain and simple.

If this is business and nothing more then you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with yourself. I accept that what Arsenal did was good business, it's ethically that I find it appalling. I only said Barcelona B team because I was trying to be realistic, Guardiola said that's about Wilshere's level, lets say he promises him a spot in the first team, and please try to answer the scenario without nitpicking it. As for being a first team player almost immediately, Fabregas didn't play a single League game for nearly a year after he signed.

I'm not arguing with myself, I am simply pointing out reality of the situation. You're the one playing crusader on the matter.

As for the statement about him being in the first team, I didn't mean literally because everyone knows he didn't play a single game his first season at the club, and yet you tell me not to nitpick. Right. I am simply pointing out he broke into the team a hell of a lot sooner than he would have in Spain and THAT is why he CHOSE Arsenal rather than stay in Spain.

Jamie wrote:Want to backtrack some more?

What am I backtracking on? I'm not saying anything that I have not said previously.

Anyways ciao, I am sure this will continue tomorrow.

Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

Wouldn mind, seeing as we actually made him, that we trusted him and played him much more than Barcelona did.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

Didn't know you supported Barcelona.

ClarkY wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

Wouldn mind, seeing as we actually made him, that we trusted him and played him much more than Barcelona did.

You wouldn't mind? Really? Really?

SBSP wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

Didn't know you supported Barcelona.

I don't.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

ClarkY wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

Wouldn mind, seeing as we actually made him, that we trusted him and played him much more than Barcelona did.

You wouldn't mind? Really? Really?

SBSP wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

Didn't know you supported Barcelona.

I don't.

I'm saying yes because we made him, did Barca make Cesc? But if they demanded money then I would not mind, as they are in control, not the other way round.

ClarkY supports Arsenal? That's news to me.

SBSP wrote:ClarkY supports Arsenal? That's news to me.

Kind of, obviously support my Greek team, but my first English game was Arsenal, so in a way yes.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

Business is business really. I don't anything is wrong with what Arsenal did so obviously I wouldn't see a problem with Barcelona doing it in that situation. All is fair in players and transfers. If one player has a contract that club holds the cards. Ethics and morals are tossed out the window.

Mutant123 wrote:My brother just ran upstairs going "Max, Max, Max, Fabregas is leaving Arsenal"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL my little brother did the exact same thing

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:You forgot Dionkey.

Jamie wrote:

19Jones19v wrote:RRooney, you can not win against Arise, he know's his stuff and out knowledges us all



Fall back while you still can

He does? Pretty sure his expert knowledge on Zapata, Udinese and Serie A is so vast he didn't even know what formation they played.

He talks shit then tries to "This is a fact, you are wrong" his way out of anyone proving him incorrect.

I can remember him talking about Zapata and Udinese a few years ago on the old forum. I have a good memory
Seems like he knows his stuff tbh.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Just tell me how you'd feel if Wilshere walked and then Barca tried to extort money out of Arsenal and Wilshere himself to let him come back?

If Barca took Wilshere as a teen and turned him into one of the best players in the world I would quite happily welcome a transfer of £40m+ to bring him to Arsenal. He would be contracted by Barcelona so we would have to respect that. I would be ashamed of Arsenal if they tried to use the fact that he started his football here as a reason to get his transfer fee down. (Not saying Barca did this with Cesc).

Arsenal are gunna be shite









Kidding
Cesc Hasn't really played his best the last year cause of this saga.
But i can see Arsenal falling out of the top four this season, Unless they can find a replacement.

Wenger said he's likely to appeal for Gervinho's red card. Whats the point

18 - Only @Cristiano (23) has scored more league goals in 2011 than Udinese's Antonio di Natale in 2011. Dangerman.

He has been top scorer 2 seasons in a row now.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Arise for Life is completely full of bullshit,

Atleast you've got something in common then


Bendtner playing tonight makes me feel better then Chamakh playing. With any luck he'll have a stormer and Wenger will change his mind and move Chamakh on instead.

Also we're in talks for Cahill along with Liverpool and City.

If City are involved he's obviously going there unless he don't give a shit about money.

''Just had a message that Cahill talks are now progressing well. change of heart from Bolton?''

According to Sky - We have a £35m buy back clause for Fabregas.

So we have a £35m buy back clause and a 50% sell on clause... Both will be useless.

Mal wrote:According to Sky - We have a £35m buy back clause for Fabregas.

So we have a £35m buy back clause and a 50% sell on clause... Both will be useless.

Whats the point in them?

I thought they said 175, but Arsenal get first dibbs, may of misheard.

His buyout clause is £175m. His buy back clause with Arsenal is £35m; so if Arsenal offered Barcelona £35m, they're allowed to negotiate with Fabregas straight away. As I said - it won't happen.

Mal, do you reckon you will get in any replacements by Saturdays game?