Liverpool FC Official Thread

Eternal Witcher wrote:

Grenade wrote: Bad patch ? He's been performing terribly recently and before that he was average to be honest. For £7m there was nothing special about this signing.

I just remembered, you're the guy who said Santon was doing great for Newcastle when he hadn't had a game yet at that time. Looks like I'll have to pass on your opinion regarding left-backs.

You're the guy who posted fake statistics about EPL left backs
I don't recall saying that though, I said he was a better player than Enrique (probably isn't now) and you lot assumed I was basing it of his time at Newcastle.

Grenade wrote:

Eternal Witcher wrote:

I just remembered, you're the guy who said Santon was doing great for Newcastle when he hadn't had a game yet at that time. Looks like I'll have to pass on your opinion regarding left-backs.

You're the guy who posted fake statistics about EPL left backs
I don't recall saying that though, I said he was a better player than Enrique (probably isn't now) and you lot assumed I was basing it of his time at Newcastle.

I don't post those kind of statistics.

Strong defending by Enrique.

85% of the time he's solid. He needs to sort out his positioning though. Johnson had this same problem but he's improved dramatically in that area.

Liverpool news: Gerard Houliier says Liverpool fans must lower expectations





Former Liverpool manager Gerard Houllier has said the Anfield club's fans expect too much and that Kenny Dalglish needs time to work with.

The Frenchman thinks Reds fans are obsessed with winning the league and believe they should win the Champions League nearly every year.

There was also a vote of confidence for Dalglish when Houllier reasoned that, with so many new signings, the Scot’s team needed at least a year to gel and settle in as team-mates before they can really be successful.

“There is too much expectation at Liverpool, they expect you to win the Champions League every year. That won't happen,” said Houllier in The Mirror.

“The obsession is the league. Rafa Benitez finished second and I finished second once, but for all the cups we won, they wanted us to win the league.”

The 64-year-old won six trophies in his time at Anfield but he was unable to take the club to its first league title since 1990.

Dalglish was the manager then but their league form has been poor since the turn of the year and they have only won one of their last seven outings.

However, they did claim a trophy in the Carling Cup and are in the semi-finals of the FA Cup, something which Houllier believes is a sign that things are improving.

The former France manager warned Liverpool fans not to fall into the stereotype of the fickle football fans, using examples of Arsene Wenger and David Moyes of how it is a long-term game and judgements should not be made instantly.

“They won the League Cup, the same way we did in 2001. It's a good sign for the future. I think he's heading in the same direction, just give him some time,” he added.

“In football, you can go from the attic to the basement very quickly, so one day he is the hero and the next day he is the zero. You have to be careful.

“Liverpool need another year to kick in. They have had a lot of recruitment done and a lot of problems, so give him some time.

“There was a time when David Moyes was criticised and Arsene was criticised - see where they are now. It's a roller-coaster.”

Grenade wrote:

Scott wrote:
Failure in the transfer market ...

Suarez, Enrique, Bellamy and Coates were very good signings.

Adam, Downing and Henderson, indifferent. I'd give them another season before writing them off completely. Though, Henderson, I feel, will be a big player for us in the future. Downing has been brighter these last few games and is starting to show what he can do. Adam is just .. not the player he was last season.

Carroll is the only crazy one, especially considering we spent 35 million.

I wouldn't say Kenny failed in the transfer market. If anything, I'd say his signings failed him. Downing, Henderson and Adam were 'player of the year' for their clubs last season. They've failed to bring/continue that form here.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Suarez was not one of Kenny's signings. Enrique was an alright signing (he's been god awful recently though) but the rest were average or just shit. Henderson is 21 man, if he's shit at this age then I doubt he will ever be a key player for you in the future (unless you're willing to settle for mediocre players). Downing is useless, he only produces against shit teams. Its Kenny's fault for buying into this "player of the season" shit and at the end of the day, he's accountable for any signings that fail. I can't believe you're actually trying to defend his transfer activity.

Alan wrote:

Fuck off Grenade Yes his signings have not set things on fire in the league and he spent a lot of money, but he was adding to a team and a squad that had finished 6th and 7th the year before and even though some of those players have not played well this season it takes time for a team and a squad to gell, and especially when a lot of the new signings are playing most of the games. And the club has went through a time of change with the new owners, on and off the park after years of not knowing what was going on behind the scene's. And there have been managers before who have not had the greatest starts and have won nothing, but given time they eventually proved themselves.

Ive never said its a certainty that Kenny Dalglish will be the man to lead us back into the top 4, but after winning us a cup and getting us to another Semi Final and having a chance of another trophy he at least deserves another season to see if we can change that cup form into our League form.

Alex Ferguson finished 11th and then 13th in the League, but given time he changed the entire club around then went on to win the FA Cup and won a few cups before he got United really challenging for a League title.

Come on Alan that's the point. He spent over £100m and arguably ended up with an inferior squad than last seasons,and it looks like you're finishing in the same position in the league after spending £100m which a total failure.

So when Fergie spent some cash back all those years ago and finished 11th and 13th should they have sacked him, or even go back years ago Bill Shankly spent some big cash in his day and it took him time to build and change things and after eventually winning 2 League titles and an FA Cup he did then go 6 season's without winning a trophy. So does this mean if things dont work in the space of a year or more clubs should just keep sacking managers. Keep saying ive never said Kenny is going to be the man to get Liverpool challenging for the top 4 but he deserves more than one full season.

Grenade chats shit. Hopefully he's trying to be funny.

Alan wrote:

Grenade wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Suarez was not one of Kenny's signings. Enrique was an alright signing (he's been god awful recently though) but the rest were average or just shit. Henderson is 21 man, if he's shit at this age then I doubt he will ever be a key player for you in the future (unless you're willing to settle for mediocre players). Downing is useless, he only produces against shit teams. Its Kenny's fault for buying into this "player of the season" shit and at the end of the day, he's accountable for any signings that fail. I can't believe you're actually trying to defend his transfer activity.

Come on Alan that's the point. He spent over £100m and arguably ended up with an inferior squad than last seasons,and it looks like you're finishing in the same position in the league after spending £100m which a total failure.

So when Fergie spent some cash back all those years ago and finished 11th and 13th should they have sacked him, or even go back years ago Bill Shankly spent some big cash in his day and it took him time to build and change things and after eventually winning 2 League titles and an FA Cup he did then go 6 season's without winning a trophy. So does this mean if things dont work in the space of a year or more clubs should just keep sacking managers. Keep saying ive never said Kenny is going to be the man to get Liverpool challenging for the top 4 but he deserves more than one full season.

I'm not getting your point here Alan. You could use the same logic for Roy Hodgson. It would be better for Liverpool fc to sack Dalglish and to hire one of the better managers available and you can't deny that. If he finishes 6th or below he deserves to get sacked. If you finish 5th then I think he might deserve another year IF he wins the FA cup too.

Grenade wrote:

Alan wrote:
So when Fergie spent some cash back all those years ago and finished 11th and 13th should they have sacked him, or even go back years ago Bill Shankly spent some big cash in his day and it took him time to build and change things and after eventually winning 2 League titles and an FA Cup he did then go 6 season's without winning a trophy. So does this mean if things dont work in the space of a year or more clubs should just keep sacking managers. Keep saying ive never said Kenny is going to be the man to get Liverpool challenging for the top 4 but he deserves more than one full season.

I'm not getting your point here Alan. You could use the same logic for Roy Hodgson. It would be better for Liverpool fc to sack Dalglish and to hire one of the better managers available and you can't deny that. If he finishes 6th or below he deserves to get sacked. If you finish 5th then I think he might deserve another year IF he wins the FA cup too.

Even Hodgson deserved more time to actually prove himself at Liverpool, and he did not spend that much cash but according to the reports and things ive read, the players were not happy with the training and the way things were with him at Anfield. But since Kenny returned up to now, ive read things that the player are happy with the training and the way things have been going on behind the scenes.

And maybe these things could change behind the scenes in time if the results dont improve, and i know the most important thing is to get results in the long run but hopefully given time the players can gell as a team and a squad, and hopefully add better quality players into this squad.

And yes Kenny Dalglish is my hero and i would love everything to workout for him at Anfield more than any other person. But im being serious if its not going to work i would not care if it was Alex Ferguson who came in and helped us get back to being a top team again, or whoever it was that turned Liverpool around i would absolutley love them, as its Liverpool football club i want to be succesful as its more important than just Kenny Dalglish being succesful to me.

Grenade wrote:Fuck off Alan
His failure in the transfer market should get him sacked alone. If he doesn't get sacked then brilliant, Liverpool will never be a threat to the top 4 with him in-charge imo, unless he drastically changes his approach and policy.

Never.....unless

Sack him now or let him learn from his mistakes?

Lets face it, he's never going to learn from it and ditch his philosophy. It seems like he's deluded himself into thinking they're good signings judging by the things he says in interviews and all that.

I don't agree with that. I think he knows they're pretty shit but he doesn't know how to tell the media....he's not great with the media.

In saying that, I don't know what sort of players he would go after; It would be a risk.

Grenade wrote:Lets face it, he's never going to learn from it and ditch his philosophy. It seems like he's deluded himself into thinking they're good signings judging by the things he says in interviews and all that.

Agreed. He would really come across as a fantastic man manager if he encourages these players on low confidence levels by telling the media, "yes, master Henderson is a parasite and not half the player of Charlie Adam."

Glen Damon wrote:

Grenade wrote:Lets face it, he's never going to learn from it and ditch his philosophy. It seems like he's deluded himself into thinking they're good signings judging by the things he says in interviews and all that.

Agreed. He would really come across as a fantastic man manager if he encourages these players on low confidence levels by telling the media, "yes, master Henderson is a parasite and not half the player of Charlie Adam."

Grenade wrote:Lets face it, he's never going to learn from it and ditch his philosophy. It seems like he's deluded himself into thinking they're good signings judging by the things he says in interviews and all that.

To be fair, it wouldn't really help to call the players shit in public, would it? I bet he tells them stuff behind the scenes but it would be crazy to say stuff to the media.

Jordo wrote:

Scott wrote:

Lol, so the points I made in my post just don't matter do they?

I still feel that the players let Kenny down.

Anyway who the fuck else could we have bought?

Konchesky, Poulsen, Cole, Jovanoich let Roy down.

That's different. Downing, Adam, Carroll and Henderson were their club's best players. (Less so for Carroll). Each of them winning the fan's player of the season award. It's normal to expect them to carry on that form here. They just seemed to turn shit, for no logical reason. Last season, Downing was beating players with ease and scoring (scored 7 in the League) and assisting loads. Adam was single handedly making Blackpool a decent side who played great attacking football, Carroll was scoring goals before he came to us in January (remember his brilliant goal against us?) and Henderson was a fan favourite at Sunderland.

The players you labeled weren't the same. Koncheskey was just an average player who wasn't even shining at Fulham. Poulsen was old and past it, same with Cole. Jovanovic is probably the only one who can be compered, and he wasn't all bad. He was a Rafa signing too, by the way.

Eternal Witcher wrote:

Scott wrote:

Lol, so the points I made in my post just don't matter do they?

I still feel that the players let Kenny down.

Anyway who the fuck else could we have bought?

When a manager takes a big gamble like that, he should take the responsibility because it was his decision to take the risk. Carroll hasn't lived up to his massive billing, Kenny's fault. 20 million on a ordinary winger unproven at the higher levels of the league, Kenny's fault. 17 million on a relative youngster, Kenny's fault if it doesn't turn out well.Seven million is still too much for what Adam has shown. In case you missed my point, it's his fault. He should face the consequences for gambling so much on such...uninspired signings.

Grenade wrote:

Scott wrote:

Lol, so the points I made in my post just don't matter do they?

I still feel that the players let Kenny down.

Anyway who the fuck else could we have bought?

Kenny is responsible for how well his signings perform. Its not the players fault that they were put under such high (and unrealistic) expectations and fail to deliver. In regards to who you could have bought instead, well if Kenny stuck that pathetic British transfer policy up his ass and actually shopped for the best players possible regardless of their nationality or league then the possibilities are endless to be honest.

You can't predict whether a player who is good for a former club is going to play well for his new club. Man United did pretty much the same as us, signing Young for a similar price to Downing, and had the same statistics as Downing last season, he turned out well. And Jones, they spend near £20 million on him. This 'english players are bad' thing is bullshit. Young and Jones are English and costed a lot.

Grenade wrote:

Eternal Witcher wrote:"Enrique was an allright signing". Just as bad. One bad patch reflecting the rest of the team and he descends to a 'decent' signing.

Bad patch ? He's been performing terribly recently and before that he was average to be honest. For £7m there was nothing special about this signing.

Enrique is the best LB in the League. Our whole back line has been a joke these last few games, missing Agger and Johnson massively. Not fair to label Enrique poor, he can't do it by himself.

Baines is the best LB in the league. He plays with a shitter back 5 compared to Liverpool week in week out but still plays brilliantly (scored 5 goals this season too the beast). Says alot about Enrique having to rely on other players to perform.

Regardless of what individual accolades your shit players have earned in the past, the point is they were still shit signings by Dalglish. You can't point the finger at the players, its mainly your managers responsibility.

Grenade wrote:Baines is the best LB in the league. He plays with a shitter back 5 compared to Liverpool week in week out but still plays brilliantly (scored 5 goals this season too the beast). Says alot about Enrique having to rely on other players to perform.

Regardless of what individual accolades your shit players have earned in the past, the point is they were still shit signings by Dalglish. You can't point the finger at the players, its mainly your managers responsibility.

How many times have you watched Baines play this season? Full matches.

Baines may be good going forward, but defensively he's not as good as Enrique.

Again, how is Dalglish supposed to predict whether a player will turn shit once stepping into Liverpool? Ferguson did the exact same thing as Dalglish, and spent heavily on Young and Jones, who ended up continuing last season's form. Young and Downing were equally good last season. However, this season they've been polar opposites. How is that Dalglish's fault?

One thing we can definitely accuse KD of is overspending.

What was he thinking!

I feel he had no choice. The clubs wouldn't let their players go for any less than they went for. You have to say he did well with Suarez, Coates, Bellamy and Enrique though. So, it evens out.

El_indian wrote:One thing we can definitely accuse KD of is overspending.

What was he thinking!

I don't know, but I'm sure his thoughts included the words "dependable," "Premier League proven," and "this is our year."

To me its not rocket science how some of these players have not performed as good as they did at their former clubs.

1 is at the end of the day they might just not be good enough, but i will give them the rest of this season and next to see how that turns out, although i have my doubts about some of them being good enough even if they are given more time.

2 there are a lot of these players who have went straight into the team, and most times the more players you have playing in a team who are not used to playing together it takes more time for that team to gell.

3 There is a lot more pressure for players to perform day in day out in training and perform on the pitch at a club the size of Liverpool, and Liverpool`s history and all this club has achieved through out time must also be a added pressure on any player who joins. But its up to these players to eventually prove they are good enough and that they can handle the pressure of playing for Liverpool fc.

He had no choice?



Ah, fuck this.

Scott wrote:I feel he had no choice. The clubs wouldn't let their players go for any less than they went for. You have to say he did well with Suarez, Coates, Bellamy and Enrique though. So, it evens out.

It doesn't even out! The poor signings have let down the better ones. They all play together you know...

Grenade wrote:Lets face it, he's never going to learn from it and ditch his philosophy. It seems like he's deluded himself into thinking they're good signings judging by the things he says in interviews and all that.

The way he does things in his interviews and some of the things he says, has never changed from all those years ago when he was in charge, and Liverpool were winning things. He does this to protect the players but he will be saying a few different things behind the scenes, and especially if things dont change he will let the players know.

And he knows its some of these players 1st season, and he is not going to destroy these players confidence by giving them abuse in public to the media, he did it once after the Bolton defeat but it would be just plain stupidity to keep doing it all the time. Even when Liverpool were winning Leauge titles and European cups they never boasted and said very little to the media and they tried to do the taking on the pitch, and they told the media what they wanted to tell them even when things were not going great, and if they had problems behind the scenes they sorted it out behind the scenes.

Kieran Gibbs is the best left back in the league tbh.

Shelvey should be playing ahead of Henderson. Much more assured on the ball, and knows how to pick a pass and lift his fucking head up.

Henderson might improve, God knows we crucified Lucas before he started to show his true potential, but I can't see it right now. He has certainly done nothing whatsoever to deserve a starting XI place and I'm glad Kenny has realised this over the past few games.

Adam needs to sort his fitness and him temperament out. Too many fouls and not enough end product.

Downing is good in 10% of the games he plays.

And Carroll...flashes of form a couple of weeks ago but Kenny dropped him again.

Suarez, Bellamy, Enrique and Coates (still young) were good signings. I still know that Rafa would have spent all that money so much butter.

Liverpool fans booing Liverpool players off the pitch doesn't happen very often, but the Wigan game showed just how far off the pace we are.

Liverpool and Everton FA Cup semi final will kick off at 12.30 on the 14th of April.

Ive got to go somewhere that morning at 10.30 and i better be back in fucking time or there will be trouble.

Scott wrote:

Grenade wrote:Baines is the best LB in the league. He plays with a shitter back 5 compared to Liverpool week in week out but still plays brilliantly (scored 5 goals this season too the beast). Says alot about Enrique having to rely on other players to perform.

Regardless of what individual accolades your shit players have earned in the past, the point is they were still shit signings by Dalglish. You can't point the finger at the players, its mainly your managers responsibility.

How many times have you watched Baines play this season? Full matches.

Baines may be good going forward, but defensively he's not as good as Enrique.

Again, how is Dalglish supposed to predict whether a player will turn shit once stepping into Liverpool? Ferguson did the exact same thing as Dalglish, and spent heavily on Young and Jones, who ended up continuing last season's form. Young and Downing were equally good last season. However, this season they've been polar opposites. How is that Dalglish's fault?

I've seen plenty of him to make a fair judgment. He's definitely as good as Enrique defensively (I'd personally say he's better). Like you said earlier Scott, Enrique needs quality defenders around him or he performs horribly. Nobody is asking Dalglish to predict the future. At the end of the day he takes responsibility for these transfers and that's that.

Scott wrote:I feel he had no choice. The clubs wouldn't let their players go for any less than they went for. You have to say he did well with Suarez, Coates, Bellamy and Enrique though. So, it evens out.

What the fuck