Liverpool FC Official Thread

Should have bought Aguero Mata and Silva.

kyro7 wrote:Should have bought Aguero Mata and Silva.

We will get them in the summer.

Laurencio wrote:

NZG wrote:Who did we sack dude?

Sammy?

Roy Hodgson.

OK hear me out, give me a chance to explain and don't freak out or anything.

What you've bought are players who fit into a very direct form of play. You've got Charlie Adam, who passes the ball long and has good precision on his set pieces. Then you've got Downing, a player that was utilized for Villa in a very direct style of play, he would push up to the side of the attackers and then pass it square back or cross it in to an oncoming attacker. Then there's Andy Carroll. His ability on the ground may be underestimated, but there's little denying that when he was at his best for Newcastle they played a very direct game, he was also at the time considered a lethal aerial threat.

Luis Suarez adds a little speed and technique to the side, which gives you the opportunity to have a man run behind the defence, Bellamy pretty much does the same.

Roy Hodgson's sides tend to play a very direct game, which does incorporate set pieces as an important part of their strategy, they like to push the wings up further than the striker, and they like to have that playmaking midfielder who can hit the ball long to the wings to begin counter attacks. What Dalglish has bought is essentially the sort of team Hodgson had at Fulham.

Not saying that Hodgson would have done the same, or even been a great manager for you, but I find the "style" he's bought quite humorous. Sad, but humorous.

Been saying this all season. We are trying to accomdate two different playing styles.

Direct: Downing, Carroll, Bellamy, Adam.
Not so direct: Henderson, Suarez.

Under Rafeal Benitez he tried and got us the high pressing, very organised way of play. It took years for him to implant, because it is not something you do over night. We had two holding midfielders. A platform to start of attacks, and can cover the full backs when they pushed forward. We could never afford world class wingers, so this was vital. The reason why we bough Glen Johnson. A deep lying playmaker, and a ball winner/other center midfielder. Then we had Gerrard in the free role, above the two. Rafa knows that Gerrard is more successful without doing the dog work of the team and is rather average defensivly, and he is very direct and is perfect for an pacey striker that stands on the last man. Then we had Reira who huged the line, and added that width, while Kuyt helped with pressing the opposition and adding something else to the team. Very balanced team. Everyone knew there role, and now we don't have a clue who is doing what. End of last year, we had Spearing and Lucas as that platform. With Merieles, Maxi, Kuyt, Suarez all interchanging and very fluid. Worked a charm at times. I don't know why Kenny didn't continue this blueprint. I am sure he has a plan, and I hope it works.

Now we have a squad which has been fucked by injuries. Lucas is the lynchpin of the side. He is good enough to cover the full backs, and the full backs trusted him so when they went forward, they were covered. Also defenders trusted him, because he would always drop back and when they tried to bring the ball out of defence. We have no other player in the squad, that can perform this role. The reason why are style of play now is flawed. Spearing is good with the ball. Recycles the ball well, and good bringing the ball forward but he is not as half clever and game intelligence as Lucas to replace him.

Also, I think with the influence of Steve Clarke. We are playing like a Mourinho Chelsea. Deep line, but counter quickly. But we have no quick players. Well, Downing is quick but he is pretty useless with the ball. Plus at the moment, are midfield is quiet poor. They struggle support the strikers, and the gap between the defence and strikers are huge. We need a proper playmaker in the summer, to play alongside Lucas. Adam ain't good enough.

Kenny tried to change the style of play, to quick. I would give him another year, to fix his mistakes and get it right.

Cadbury wrote:I hate how we built our squad around one player, who let's be honest, isn't exactly proven. We should have replaced Torres with a player who had a similar style of play. It worked before.

Yep. The system of play, was suited to a fast, mobile number 9.

Now we have the polar opposite.

I have no problem with this, but I don't think Carroll is good enough.

kyro7 wrote:Should have bought Aguero Mata and Silva.

And Ba.
oh wait he's black nvm lol

Kuled With another great post. If you have nothing constructive to post then you should fuck off to the Italy thread.

ok

Creativity is our biggest problem. What players do you actually have confidence in to unlock a tight, compact defence? Only Suarez right now and he ends up missing the goal, hitting the woodwork, drawing the keeper into a reasonable save.

No one moves for each other. No one does selfless runs anymore.

We are static.

Kenny is way too inconsistent for me. One game he'll ply great tactics with a good team selection, next game he'll completely change everything for worse. Also, we seem to play the same tactics against all the lower teams, there's no creativity and the opposition know our style of play and will be able to counter it. Also, where's Maxi! Scores 10 goals in 11 games towards the end of last season, scores some vital goals against Chelsea this season, links up really well vs Stoke, but constantly Downing is picked ahead of him, I feel sorry for Maxi

Add that to the fact that he's spent hideous amounts of money on poor players, I'm not sure I'd want him given another season.

Jordo wrote:

Cadbury wrote:I hate how we built our squad around one player, who let's be honest, isn't exactly proven. We should have replaced Torres with a player who had a similar style of play. It worked before.

Yep. The system of play, was suited to a fast, mobile number 9.

Now we have the polar opposite.

I have no problem with this, but I don't think Carroll is good enough.

No problem with playing a player not suited to a system?


I do think carrol is good enough for us but we need to decide on a system as I doubt we will be able to successfully morph them together.

NZG wrote:

Jordo wrote:

Yep. The system of play, was suited to a fast, mobile number 9.

Now we have the polar opposite.

I have no problem with this, but I don't think Carroll is good enough.

No problem with playing a player not suited to a system?


I do think carrol is good enough for us but we need to decide on a system as I doubt we will be able to successfully morph them together.

I mean, I don't mind us changing the system, but I don't think Carroll is good enough for us to.

Are the Gaston Ramirez rumours true?

Jordo wrote:No one moves for each other. No one does selfless runs anymore.

We are static.

It's frustrating to watch. Why hasn't Kenny solved the solvable? Surely he can just tell the players to attack crosses in the box rather than just lurk back. No wonder Downing has no assists in the league, it's a farce.

Will Kenny sell any of his signings in the summer you think?

Kuled wrote:Are the Gaston Ramirez rumours true?

Just gonna phone Comolli and ask him if we are signing him.

BRB

Eternal Witcher wrote:Will Kenny sell any of his signings in the summer you think?

Yes.

Eternal Witcher wrote:Creativity is our biggest problem. What players do you actually have confidence in to unlock a tight, compact defence? Only Suarez right now and he ends up missing the goal, hitting the woodwork, drawing the keeper into a reasonable save.

You need a proper winger, and someone who can put chances away.

Hes back

Team for Villa: Doni, Enrique, Flanagan, Skrtel, Carra, Gerrard, Spearing, Downing, Kuyt, Carroll, Suarez

4-4-2

Jordo wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

Roy Hodgson.

OK hear me out, give me a chance to explain and don't freak out or anything.

What you've bought are players who fit into a very direct form of play. You've got Charlie Adam, who passes the ball long and has good precision on his set pieces. Then you've got Downing, a player that was utilized for Villa in a very direct style of play, he would push up to the side of the attackers and then pass it square back or cross it in to an oncoming attacker. Then there's Andy Carroll. His ability on the ground may be underestimated, but there's little denying that when he was at his best for Newcastle they played a very direct game, he was also at the time considered a lethal aerial threat.

Luis Suarez adds a little speed and technique to the side, which gives you the opportunity to have a man run behind the defence, Bellamy pretty much does the same.

Roy Hodgson's sides tend to play a very direct game, which does incorporate set pieces as an important part of their strategy, they like to push the wings up further than the striker, and they like to have that playmaking midfielder who can hit the ball long to the wings to begin counter attacks. What Dalglish has bought is essentially the sort of team Hodgson had at Fulham.

Not saying that Hodgson would have done the same, or even been a great manager for you, but I find the "style" he's bought quite humorous. Sad, but humorous.

Been saying this all season. We are trying to accomdate two different playing styles.

Direct: Downing, Carroll, Bellamy, Adam.
Not so direct: Henderson, Suarez.

Under Rafeal Benitez he tried and got us the high pressing, very organised way of play. It took years for him to implant, because it is not something you do over night. We had two holding midfielders. A platform to start of attacks, and can cover the full backs when they pushed forward. We could never afford world class wingers, so this was vital. The reason why we bough Glen Johnson. A deep lying playmaker, and a ball winner/other center midfielder. Then we had Gerrard in the free role, above the two. Rafa knows that Gerrard is more successful without doing the dog work of the team and is rather average defensivly, and he is very direct and is perfect for an pacey striker that stands on the last man. Then we had Reira who huged the line, and added that width, while Kuyt helped with pressing the opposition and adding something else to the team. Very balanced team. Everyone knew there role, and now we don't have a clue who is doing what. End of last year, we had Spearing and Lucas as that platform. With Merieles, Maxi, Kuyt, Suarez all interchanging and very fluid. Worked a charm at times. I don't know why Kenny didn't continue this blueprint. I am sure he has a plan, and I hope it works.

Now we have a squad which has been fucked by injuries. Lucas is the lynchpin of the side. He is good enough to cover the full backs, and the full backs trusted him so when they went forward, they were covered. Also defenders trusted him, because he would always drop back and when they tried to bring the ball out of defence. We have no other player in the squad, that can perform this role. The reason why are style of play now is flawed. Spearing is good with the ball. Recycles the ball well, and good bringing the ball forward but he is not as half clever and game intelligence as Lucas to replace him.

Also, I think with the influence of Steve Clarke. We are playing like a Mourinho Chelsea. Deep line, but counter quickly. But we have no quick players. Well, Downing is quick but he is pretty useless with the ball. Plus at the moment, are midfield is quiet poor. They struggle support the strikers, and the gap between the defence and strikers are huge. We need a proper playmaker in the summer, to play alongside Lucas. Adam ain't good enough.

Kenny tried to change the style of play, to quick. I would give him another year, to fix his mistakes and get it right.

For the sake of Liverpool Football Club I sincerely hope you appoint either Andres Villas Boas, Frank Rijkaard or Rafael Benitez. After sacking Dalglish of course. He has gotten his second chance, and has proven he isn't capable of bringing Liverpool back to its former glory. He isn't the right man for Liverpool at this time, and I sincerily, for the sake of a great rivalry and a great club, hope you get rid of him as soon as possible. Let him go before it is too late.

I've been looking at Dalglish' "tactics" over the season and they scream 1990 to me. They scream Kevin Keagan and Terry Venables, heck they scream Roy Hodgson, only not as well adapted (my opinion, could be wrong of course). There's a distinct lack of the Italian thoughtfulness the latin flair, and the German effectiveness that has dominated the game for the past decade or so. I honestly think you are going backwards, and that you need to stop this "project" before it takes away all the good work done by a certain spaniard.

------------------Doni------------
Flanagan-Coates-Skrtel-Enrique
---------------Spearing----------
-------Maxi---Gerrard---Downing---
-------------Kuyt--Suarez---------

We should play this

STICK OR TWIST? A LESSON FROM HISTORY


by Gareth Roberts // 4 April 2012 //


THERE’s a lot of gleeful handrubbing and told-you-sos flying around at the moment.

Journalists that said Kenny Dalglish should never have been given a second chance are nodding sagely and grinning with delight…even the one who wanted Jamie Carragher to get the job.Rival fans are appearing from the woodwork, inactive social networking accounts are creaking into life again and (foam semi-final) fingers are being pointed.A lot of people who have got nothing to do with Liverpool want a Liverpool legend ousted. Some Liverpool fans want him gone, too.But there’s perhaps a lesson to be learned from 30-odd miles down the road when it comes to deciding whether to stick or twist with Dalglish.

When Dalglish took the reins in 1985 as England’s first player-manager he had Bob Paisley to turn to for on-the-field advice and Peter Robinson to turn to for off-field advice.Every aspect of Liverpool was top class. In the 10 years before Dalglish moved into the manager’s office the club had won the league seven times.The Liverpool he manages now is clearly not the Liverpool he managed then and while that doesn’t seem to dampen the expectations of some supporters and sections of the media, perhaps it will influence FSG.John Henry has been known to swot up on football past and present and by now he will surely know just how much the club has fallen behind the leading pack.Revenue-wise, wage-paying-wise, stadium-size wise, Liverpool is not top of the pile.Clearly that’s not the case in the league either – and come the end of a season, it won’t have been the case since 1990 – 22 long years.

But the year Liverpool were last crowned champions was also the year Alex Ferguson almost lost his job.Ferguson had spent big and expectations were high. Manchester United kicked off hoping, expecting, that for the first time since 1967 – 23 long years – they would win the league.United had broken the British record for a defender with the purchase of Gary Pallister at £2.3million while deals for Danny Wallace (£1.2m), Neil Webb (£1.5m) and Paul Ince (£1.7m) were hardly cut price either.The Pallister deal was in fact the second highest fee paid by a British club at the time. The biggest was by Liverpool to bring back Ian Rush from Juventus.

Ferguson had also tried to lure Glenn Hysen to Old Trafford but lost out – to Liverpool.He still made a total of 10 signings that season as he tried to end years of underachievement in the league.But while Liverpool won the title, as per usual back then, United slumped to 13th, their lowest league finish since their relegation from the First Division 15 years earlier.It’s all sounding eerily familiar isn’t it?Ferguson came under immense pressure with even the United fans turning on him – one producing the infamous banner: ’3 years of excuses and it’s still crap – ta ra Fergie’.



When that banner was unfurled at Old Trafford in 1989 it was met by “loud, spontaneous and brutal cheers” according to a Guardian article by Daniel Taylor (and the doyen would know).Taylor interviewed the fan responsible for the banner, Pete Molyneux, who said: “It was a build up of all the frustrations because his first three years were dark times. Liverpool were running away with everything and we didn’t seem to be getting any closer.“We were coming off the back of the failures of Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson to win the league and I just felt the fans had to do something because the club was accepting second-best.”

As it was, Ferguson’s side went on to win the FA Cup that season after a replay, beating underwhelming opposition in Crystal Palace, who had never reached a final before.It was United’s first trophy in five years, and Ferguson’s first as manager of the club (he was appointed in November 1986).No-one needs reminding what’s happened since.But the point is that it is only modern football that decrees managers must be moved on at the first sign of crisis – it never used to be the case.Managers were given time – especially at Liverpool.

Ah, you might say, well what about Roy Hodgson? Seriously, what about him? It really shouldn’t need to be said but Kenny Dalglish is not Roy Hodgson.One season of ups and downs, a few bad buys and a poor league performance doesn’t whitewash everything that has come before.Liverpool fans are now being mocked for calling him ‘King’ but Dalglish is the greatest living legend associated with Liverpool Football Club – a man who has experienced the highs of European Cup glory and the lows of Hillsborough and emerged the other side revered and with a lot of credit in the bank.Let’s not forget that Dalglish is where he is right now because he answered the call of the club he loves in its hour of need. The easy choice was to keep on cruising – literally.

Hodgson, on the other hand, was the pick of a banker and it showed. He was way out of his depth.Kenny clocked up eight league titles as a Liverpool player and manager and won the European Cup three times as a Red.Hodgson didn’t manage to break into the Crystal Palace first team before playing for a string of non-league clubs. He’s managed 16 teams in eight countries, winning the league in Sweden and Denmark.

Unwanted records are being racked up in the league right now but that visibly hurts Dalglish.In similar situations Hodgson embraced the mediocrity. This was Liverpool’s level and it wasn’t his fault, was the message. Remember ‘formidable’ Northampton?And the football? Well for all the faults of the current side, at least they try to play the right way.It sounds like straw-clutching but anyone who watches Liverpool regularly will tell you the football – in the main – has been better than the results suggest.

Under Hodgson, results were deserved. The football was turgid, defensively-minded and one-dimensional. He left the club with a win percentage of 41 per cent. Dalglish sits at 47 per cent for his second stint as manager (it was an amazing 60 per cent the first time around).This season, Liverpool have often lacked direction – they’ve looked fragile, short on ideas and inspiration and devoid of a leader or two. There’s not enough character in the side right now.

But on the other hand they’ve defeated Arsenal, Chelsea (twice), Manchester United and Manchester City.They’ve won a cup, ending a six-year trophy drought in the process, and they’re in the semi of the FA Cup.This side might be clueless but its capable. It’s been good and bad for Liverpool this season.Dalglish could still turn this around, so why change it?If he genuinely doesn’t believe he can do any more for the club come the summer I believe he would walk away – he wants what is best for Liverpool.As he said the first time around: “I would be the first to realise if I wasn’t good enough and then I would confront it.”

Does the club really want to go down the road of a fourth manager in two years if it can be avoided?And if it does when does that policy stop? It’s an expensive and unsustainable approach – after all, Liverpool doesn’t have Roman Abramovich sitting in the boardroom to soak up the pay-offs.Dalglish has been in charge for 15 months and 65 games. Every manager Liverpool has ever had bar Hodgson was afforded more time.Going back to Ferguson in the 89-90 season, Martin Edwards at the time was said to be seriously considering sacking Ferguson, although he was worried about United becoming ‘a sacking club’.

The directors were also reported to have recognised the reasons for the slump – with injuries top of the mitigating circumstances.It’s just one of the reasons Dalglish could cite for this season’s league performances.Lucas, Glen Johnson, Steven Gerrard, Daniel Agger – all have missed significant numbers of games. In the case of Lucas and Agger in particular, their influence on team performance is huge.Then there was the Luis Suarez sideshow. Dalglish handled it badly. So did the rest of the club. But in pure football terms it robbed the manager of his most effective attacker – and Suarez has never been the same again since.The summer signings largely haven’t worked – that can’t be ignored. Andy Carroll, too, still has a lot to prove.But they’re capable of more. There are players in there – we’ve seen it.

A new manager would call for new players. A new system. Liverpool would be back to square one.And who would that manager be? There’d be candidates, of course there would be. But what would the calibre of them be?It was the pulling power of the club – or rather the lack of it – that prompted Dalglish to put himself forward for the job in the first place.Is Liverpool any more attractive a proposition now? There’s still no stadium. There’s still no Chelsea or Man City-esque pot of gold to spend and there will be no place in the Champions League next season to tempt the top players. Talk of Jose Mourinho is fanciful for many reasons, not least for expecting an ego like that to work with a director of football.

The blood is still being wiped from the walls of Anfield from the messy battle to rid the club of Tom Hicks and George Gillett.Then, under Rafa Benitez, it was the best midfield in the world. Now it’s not even the best midfield in the league.World-class talent was replaced with lesser replacements. The pendulum is yet to swing back the other way. That will be the same whoever is in charge in the dugout.And does starting again under a new manager minus a big budget make any sense at all?Perhaps a master tactician could come in, drill the current squad and offer a more results-orientated approach to matters – points first, performances second.But Liverpool have had such managers in Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez. People still moaned and the media still sniped.

Perhaps instead of championing change expectations should be reeled in and tolerance extended to a man who has won the top division four times.Top four this season – or even higher – always seemed ambitious after what had come before. The turnover over of players has been huge, so it was always a big ask, particularly with an aim to lower wages and without the lure of Europe.Other teams looked better equipped and further developed from day one – so it has proved, although the Liverpool squad has clearly underachieved while the summer signings have largely failed.The smart buys of Newcastle that contributed to the latest setback only served as a painful reminder of what can happen when money is spent wisely.

Dalglish and Damien Comolli need to learn the lessons from the last few windows – that’s if they are given the chance.But whatever happens, whoever leads the team, Liverpool will face the same problems.Liverpool is still deemed a big club, but now it’s for its history and its support. It’s not the first-choice destination for players, it’s not offering the biggest wages and it plays in an ageing ground that is dwarfed by those of rival clubs.Now, if Manchester United and Liverpool chase the same player the player goes to Old Trafford. Ashley Young and Phil Jones are testimony to that fact – the boot has long been on the other foot.Yet expectations remain unchecked. None of it matters. It’s always the manager’s fault. It’s always that easy. When a manager’s lost it, he’s lost it – he can’t pull it back, can he?

Ferguson did. Perhaps Kenny can. While that possibility remains it’s a chance worth taking.

Pos	Club	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
12	Coventry City	38	14	7	17	39	59	−20	49
13	Manchester United	38	13	9	16	46	47	−1	48
14	Manchester City	38	12	12	14	43	52	−9	48

Laurencio wrote:

Jordo wrote:

Been saying this all season. We are trying to accomdate two different playing styles.

Direct: Downing, Carroll, Bellamy, Adam.
Not so direct: Henderson, Suarez.

Under Rafeal Benitez he tried and got us the high pressing, very organised way of play. It took years for him to implant, because it is not something you do over night. We had two holding midfielders. A platform to start of attacks, and can cover the full backs when they pushed forward. We could never afford world class wingers, so this was vital. The reason why we bough Glen Johnson. A deep lying playmaker, and a ball winner/other center midfielder. Then we had Gerrard in the free role, above the two. Rafa knows that Gerrard is more successful without doing the dog work of the team and is rather average defensivly, and he is very direct and is perfect for an pacey striker that stands on the last man. Then we had Reira who huged the line, and added that width, while Kuyt helped with pressing the opposition and adding something else to the team. Very balanced team. Everyone knew there role, and now we don't have a clue who is doing what. End of last year, we had Spearing and Lucas as that platform. With Merieles, Maxi, Kuyt, Suarez all interchanging and very fluid. Worked a charm at times. I don't know why Kenny didn't continue this blueprint. I am sure he has a plan, and I hope it works.

Now we have a squad which has been fucked by injuries. Lucas is the lynchpin of the side. He is good enough to cover the full backs, and the full backs trusted him so when they went forward, they were covered. Also defenders trusted him, because he would always drop back and when they tried to bring the ball out of defence. We have no other player in the squad, that can perform this role. The reason why are style of play now is flawed. Spearing is good with the ball. Recycles the ball well, and good bringing the ball forward but he is not as half clever and game intelligence as Lucas to replace him.

Also, I think with the influence of Steve Clarke. We are playing like a Mourinho Chelsea. Deep line, but counter quickly. But we have no quick players. Well, Downing is quick but he is pretty useless with the ball. Plus at the moment, are midfield is quiet poor. They struggle support the strikers, and the gap between the defence and strikers are huge. We need a proper playmaker in the summer, to play alongside Lucas. Adam ain't good enough.

Kenny tried to change the style of play, to quick. I would give him another year, to fix his mistakes and get it right.

For the sake of Liverpool Football Club I sincerely hope you appoint either Andres Villas Boas, Frank Rijkaard or Rafael Benitez. After sacking Dalglish of course. He has gotten his second chance, and has proven he isn't capable of bringing Liverpool back to its former glory. He isn't the right man for Liverpool at this time, and I sincerily, for the sake of a great rivalry and a great club, hope you get rid of him as soon as possible. Let him go before it is too late.

I've been looking at Dalglish' "tactics" over the season and they scream 1990 to me. They scream Kevin Keagan and Terry Venables, heck they scream Roy Hodgson, only not as well adapted (my opinion, could be wrong of course). There's a distinct lack of the Italian thoughtfulness the latin flair, and the German effectiveness that has dominated the game for the past decade or so. I honestly think you are going backwards, and that you need to stop this "project" before it takes away all the good work done by a certain spaniard.

Funny thing is, Liverpool success was built on playing football the European way. Shankly adopted continental training methods, tactics after Liverpool got knocked out of the Europe back in the 60's. He wasn't your typical English coach. Bob Paisley then took over, and using what Shankly had laid down, well, the rest is history.

Alan wrote:STICK OR TWIST? A LESSON FROM HISTORY


by Gareth Roberts // 4 April 2012 //


THERE’s a lot of gleeful handrubbing and told-you-sos flying around at the moment.

Journalists that said Kenny Dalglish should never have been given a second chance are nodding sagely and grinning with delight…even the one who wanted Jamie Carragher to get the job.Rival fans are appearing from the woodwork, inactive social networking accounts are creaking into life again and (foam semi-final) fingers are being pointed.A lot of people who have got nothing to do with Liverpool want a Liverpool legend ousted. Some Liverpool fans want him gone, too.But there’s perhaps a lesson to be learned from 30-odd miles down the road when it comes to deciding whether to stick or twist with Dalglish.

When Dalglish took the reins in 1985 as England’s first player-manager he had Bob Paisley to turn to for on-the-field advice and Peter Robinson to turn to for off-field advice.Every aspect of Liverpool was top class. In the 10 years before Dalglish moved into the manager’s office the club had won the league seven times.The Liverpool he manages now is clearly not the Liverpool he managed then and while that doesn’t seem to dampen the expectations of some supporters and sections of the media, perhaps it will influence FSG.John Henry has been known to swot up on football past and present and by now he will surely know just how much the club has fallen behind the leading pack.Revenue-wise, wage-paying-wise, stadium-size wise, Liverpool is not top of the pile.Clearly that’s not the case in the league either – and come the end of a season, it won’t have been the case since 1990 – 22 long years.

But the year Liverpool were last crowned champions was also the year Alex Ferguson almost lost his job.Ferguson had spent big and expectations were high. Manchester United kicked off hoping, expecting, that for the first time since 1967 – 23 long years – they would win the league.United had broken the British record for a defender with the purchase of Gary Pallister at £2.3million while deals for Danny Wallace (£1.2m), Neil Webb (£1.5m) and Paul Ince (£1.7m) were hardly cut price either.The Pallister deal was in fact the second highest fee paid by a British club at the time. The biggest was by Liverpool to bring back Ian Rush from Juventus.

Ferguson had also tried to lure Glenn Hysen to Old Trafford but lost out – to Liverpool.He still made a total of 10 signings that season as he tried to end years of underachievement in the league.But while Liverpool won the title, as per usual back then, United slumped to 13th, their lowest league finish since their relegation from the First Division 15 years earlier.It’s all sounding eerily familiar isn’t it?Ferguson came under immense pressure with even the United fans turning on him – one producing the infamous banner: ’3 years of excuses and it’s still crap – ta ra Fergie’.



When that banner was unfurled at Old Trafford in 1989 it was met by “loud, spontaneous and brutal cheers” according to a Guardian article by Daniel Taylor (and the doyen would know).Taylor interviewed the fan responsible for the banner, Pete Molyneux, who said: “It was a build up of all the frustrations because his first three years were dark times. Liverpool were running away with everything and we didn’t seem to be getting any closer.“We were coming off the back of the failures of Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson to win the league and I just felt the fans had to do something because the club was accepting second-best.”

As it was, Ferguson’s side went on to win the FA Cup that season after a replay, beating underwhelming opposition in Crystal Palace, who had never reached a final before.It was United’s first trophy in five years, and Ferguson’s first as manager of the club (he was appointed in November 1986).No-one needs reminding what’s happened since.But the point is that it is only modern football that decrees managers must be moved on at the first sign of crisis – it never used to be the case.Managers were given time – especially at Liverpool.

Ah, you might say, well what about Roy Hodgson? Seriously, what about him? It really shouldn’t need to be said but Kenny Dalglish is not Roy Hodgson.One season of ups and downs, a few bad buys and a poor league performance doesn’t whitewash everything that has come before.Liverpool fans are now being mocked for calling him ‘King’ but Dalglish is the greatest living legend associated with Liverpool Football Club – a man who has experienced the highs of European Cup glory and the lows of Hillsborough and emerged the other side revered and with a lot of credit in the bank.Let’s not forget that Dalglish is where he is right now because he answered the call of the club he loves in its hour of need. The easy choice was to keep on cruising – literally.

Hodgson, on the other hand, was the pick of a banker and it showed. He was way out of his depth.Kenny clocked up eight league titles as a Liverpool player and manager and won the European Cup three times as a Red.Hodgson didn’t manage to break into the Crystal Palace first team before playing for a string of non-league clubs. He’s managed 16 teams in eight countries, winning the league in Sweden and Denmark.

Unwanted records are being racked up in the league right now but that visibly hurts Dalglish.In similar situations Hodgson embraced the mediocrity. This was Liverpool’s level and it wasn’t his fault, was the message. Remember ‘formidable’ Northampton?And the football? Well for all the faults of the current side, at least they try to play the right way.It sounds like straw-clutching but anyone who watches Liverpool regularly will tell you the football – in the main – has been better than the results suggest.

Under Hodgson, results were deserved. The football was turgid, defensively-minded and one-dimensional. He left the club with a win percentage of 41 per cent. Dalglish sits at 47 per cent for his second stint as manager (it was an amazing 60 per cent the first time around).This season, Liverpool have often lacked direction – they’ve looked fragile, short on ideas and inspiration and devoid of a leader or two. There’s not enough character in the side right now.

But on the other hand they’ve defeated Arsenal, Chelsea (twice), Manchester United and Manchester City.They’ve won a cup, ending a six-year trophy drought in the process, and they’re in the semi of the FA Cup.This side might be clueless but its capable. It’s been good and bad for Liverpool this season.Dalglish could still turn this around, so why change it?If he genuinely doesn’t believe he can do any more for the club come the summer I believe he would walk away – he wants what is best for Liverpool.As he said the first time around: “I would be the first to realise if I wasn’t good enough and then I would confront it.”

Does the club really want to go down the road of a fourth manager in two years if it can be avoided?And if it does when does that policy stop? It’s an expensive and unsustainable approach – after all, Liverpool doesn’t have Roman Abramovich sitting in the boardroom to soak up the pay-offs.Dalglish has been in charge for 15 months and 65 games. Every manager Liverpool has ever had bar Hodgson was afforded more time.Going back to Ferguson in the 89-90 season, Martin Edwards at the time was said to be seriously considering sacking Ferguson, although he was worried about United becoming ‘a sacking club’.

The directors were also reported to have recognised the reasons for the slump – with injuries top of the mitigating circumstances.It’s just one of the reasons Dalglish could cite for this season’s league performances.Lucas, Glen Johnson, Steven Gerrard, Daniel Agger – all have missed significant numbers of games. In the case of Lucas and Agger in particular, their influence on team performance is huge.Then there was the Luis Suarez sideshow. Dalglish handled it badly. So did the rest of the club. But in pure football terms it robbed the manager of his most effective attacker – and Suarez has never been the same again since.The summer signings largely haven’t worked – that can’t be ignored. Andy Carroll, too, still has a lot to prove.But they’re capable of more. There are players in there – we’ve seen it.

A new manager would call for new players. A new system. Liverpool would be back to square one.And who would that manager be? There’d be candidates, of course there would be. But what would the calibre of them be?It was the pulling power of the club – or rather the lack of it – that prompted Dalglish to put himself forward for the job in the first place.Is Liverpool any more attractive a proposition now? There’s still no stadium. There’s still no Chelsea or Man City-esque pot of gold to spend and there will be no place in the Champions League next season to tempt the top players. Talk of Jose Mourinho is fanciful for many reasons, not least for expecting an ego like that to work with a director of football.

The blood is still being wiped from the walls of Anfield from the messy battle to rid the club of Tom Hicks and George Gillett.Then, under Rafa Benitez, it was the best midfield in the world. Now it’s not even the best midfield in the league.World-class talent was replaced with lesser replacements. The pendulum is yet to swing back the other way. That will be the same whoever is in charge in the dugout.And does starting again under a new manager minus a big budget make any sense at all?Perhaps a master tactician could come in, drill the current squad and offer a more results-orientated approach to matters – points first, performances second.But Liverpool have had such managers in Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez. People still moaned and the media still sniped.

Perhaps instead of championing change expectations should be reeled in and tolerance extended to a man who has won the top division four times.Top four this season – or even higher – always seemed ambitious after what had come before. The turnover over of players has been huge, so it was always a big ask, particularly with an aim to lower wages and without the lure of Europe.Other teams looked better equipped and further developed from day one – so it has proved, although the Liverpool squad has clearly underachieved while the summer signings have largely failed.The smart buys of Newcastle that contributed to the latest setback only served as a painful reminder of what can happen when money is spent wisely.

Dalglish and Damien Comolli need to learn the lessons from the last few windows – that’s if they are given the chance.But whatever happens, whoever leads the team, Liverpool will face the same problems.Liverpool is still deemed a big club, but now it’s for its history and its support. It’s not the first-choice destination for players, it’s not offering the biggest wages and it plays in an ageing ground that is dwarfed by those of rival clubs.Now, if Manchester United and Liverpool chase the same player the player goes to Old Trafford. Ashley Young and Phil Jones are testimony to that fact – the boot has long been on the other foot.Yet expectations remain unchecked. None of it matters. It’s always the manager’s fault. It’s always that easy. When a manager’s lost it, he’s lost it – he can’t pull it back, can he?

Ferguson did. Perhaps Kenny can. While that possibility remains it’s a chance worth taking.

Pos	Club	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
12	Coventry City	38	14	7	17	39	59	−20	49
13	Manchester United	38	13	9	16	46	47	−1	48
14	Manchester City	38	12	12	14	43	52	−9	48

The article fails to take into account the time Fergie did all this, it fails to take into account the financial and competitive nature of the league, it fails to take into account the decline in quality of football being presented, it fails to understand why Dalglish isn't moving the club forward but is instead dragging it back, and it fails to understand how the managers job has changed massively since Dalglish was at the helm last time.

More so than anything it fails to see the bigger picture. Liverpool is on a steady decline, the investments, the public relations, the football, it has all been one strange mishap after the other. The club can not afford to wait for Dalglish to get into any grove, by that time they would have difficulty finding the funds for a new stadium, judging by current trends player funds will have heavily decreased and the overall attraction of Liverpool FC will have fallen to a point where getting back up would be very difficult indeed.

It's been an incredibly difficult year for Liverpool FC, and it has in no way been "soothed" by Dalglish. That combined with the style and efficiency of the performances on the pitch, as well as a dismal effort in the league, and the financial implications of this, all point to a need to salvage what they can before it is too late. This is not 1985, and any comparison to what one of the most successful managers in Britain did at that time can not be used in Dalglish' defence. It's simply not the same.

Laurencio wrote:

Alan wrote:STICK OR TWIST? A LESSON FROM HISTORY


by Gareth Roberts // 4 April 2012 //


THERE’s a lot of gleeful handrubbing and told-you-sos flying around at the moment.

Journalists that said Kenny Dalglish should never have been given a second chance are nodding sagely and grinning with delight…even the one who wanted Jamie Carragher to get the job.Rival fans are appearing from the woodwork, inactive social networking accounts are creaking into life again and (foam semi-final) fingers are being pointed.A lot of people who have got nothing to do with Liverpool want a Liverpool legend ousted. Some Liverpool fans want him gone, too.But there’s perhaps a lesson to be learned from 30-odd miles down the road when it comes to deciding whether to stick or twist with Dalglish.

When Dalglish took the reins in 1985 as England’s first player-manager he had Bob Paisley to turn to for on-the-field advice and Peter Robinson to turn to for off-field advice.Every aspect of Liverpool was top class. In the 10 years before Dalglish moved into the manager’s office the club had won the league seven times.The Liverpool he manages now is clearly not the Liverpool he managed then and while that doesn’t seem to dampen the expectations of some supporters and sections of the media, perhaps it will influence FSG.John Henry has been known to swot up on football past and present and by now he will surely know just how much the club has fallen behind the leading pack.Revenue-wise, wage-paying-wise, stadium-size wise, Liverpool is not top of the pile.Clearly that’s not the case in the league either – and come the end of a season, it won’t have been the case since 1990 – 22 long years.

But the year Liverpool were last crowned champions was also the year Alex Ferguson almost lost his job.Ferguson had spent big and expectations were high. Manchester United kicked off hoping, expecting, that for the first time since 1967 – 23 long years – they would win the league.United had broken the British record for a defender with the purchase of Gary Pallister at £2.3million while deals for Danny Wallace (£1.2m), Neil Webb (£1.5m) and Paul Ince (£1.7m) were hardly cut price either.The Pallister deal was in fact the second highest fee paid by a British club at the time. The biggest was by Liverpool to bring back Ian Rush from Juventus.

Ferguson had also tried to lure Glenn Hysen to Old Trafford but lost out – to Liverpool.He still made a total of 10 signings that season as he tried to end years of underachievement in the league.But while Liverpool won the title, as per usual back then, United slumped to 13th, their lowest league finish since their relegation from the First Division 15 years earlier.It’s all sounding eerily familiar isn’t it?Ferguson came under immense pressure with even the United fans turning on him – one producing the infamous banner: ’3 years of excuses and it’s still crap – ta ra Fergie’.



When that banner was unfurled at Old Trafford in 1989 it was met by “loud, spontaneous and brutal cheers” according to a Guardian article by Daniel Taylor (and the doyen would know).Taylor interviewed the fan responsible for the banner, Pete Molyneux, who said: “It was a build up of all the frustrations because his first three years were dark times. Liverpool were running away with everything and we didn’t seem to be getting any closer.“We were coming off the back of the failures of Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson to win the league and I just felt the fans had to do something because the club was accepting second-best.”

As it was, Ferguson’s side went on to win the FA Cup that season after a replay, beating underwhelming opposition in Crystal Palace, who had never reached a final before.It was United’s first trophy in five years, and Ferguson’s first as manager of the club (he was appointed in November 1986).No-one needs reminding what’s happened since.But the point is that it is only modern football that decrees managers must be moved on at the first sign of crisis – it never used to be the case.Managers were given time – especially at Liverpool.

Ah, you might say, well what about Roy Hodgson? Seriously, what about him? It really shouldn’t need to be said but Kenny Dalglish is not Roy Hodgson.One season of ups and downs, a few bad buys and a poor league performance doesn’t whitewash everything that has come before.Liverpool fans are now being mocked for calling him ‘King’ but Dalglish is the greatest living legend associated with Liverpool Football Club – a man who has experienced the highs of European Cup glory and the lows of Hillsborough and emerged the other side revered and with a lot of credit in the bank.Let’s not forget that Dalglish is where he is right now because he answered the call of the club he loves in its hour of need. The easy choice was to keep on cruising – literally.

Hodgson, on the other hand, was the pick of a banker and it showed. He was way out of his depth.Kenny clocked up eight league titles as a Liverpool player and manager and won the European Cup three times as a Red.Hodgson didn’t manage to break into the Crystal Palace first team before playing for a string of non-league clubs. He’s managed 16 teams in eight countries, winning the league in Sweden and Denmark.

Unwanted records are being racked up in the league right now but that visibly hurts Dalglish.In similar situations Hodgson embraced the mediocrity. This was Liverpool’s level and it wasn’t his fault, was the message. Remember ‘formidable’ Northampton?And the football? Well for all the faults of the current side, at least they try to play the right way.It sounds like straw-clutching but anyone who watches Liverpool regularly will tell you the football – in the main – has been better than the results suggest.

Under Hodgson, results were deserved. The football was turgid, defensively-minded and one-dimensional. He left the club with a win percentage of 41 per cent. Dalglish sits at 47 per cent for his second stint as manager (it was an amazing 60 per cent the first time around).This season, Liverpool have often lacked direction – they’ve looked fragile, short on ideas and inspiration and devoid of a leader or two. There’s not enough character in the side right now.

But on the other hand they’ve defeated Arsenal, Chelsea (twice), Manchester United and Manchester City.They’ve won a cup, ending a six-year trophy drought in the process, and they’re in the semi of the FA Cup.This side might be clueless but its capable. It’s been good and bad for Liverpool this season.Dalglish could still turn this around, so why change it?If he genuinely doesn’t believe he can do any more for the club come the summer I believe he would walk away – he wants what is best for Liverpool.As he said the first time around: “I would be the first to realise if I wasn’t good enough and then I would confront it.”

Does the club really want to go down the road of a fourth manager in two years if it can be avoided?And if it does when does that policy stop? It’s an expensive and unsustainable approach – after all, Liverpool doesn’t have Roman Abramovich sitting in the boardroom to soak up the pay-offs.Dalglish has been in charge for 15 months and 65 games. Every manager Liverpool has ever had bar Hodgson was afforded more time.Going back to Ferguson in the 89-90 season, Martin Edwards at the time was said to be seriously considering sacking Ferguson, although he was worried about United becoming ‘a sacking club’.

The directors were also reported to have recognised the reasons for the slump – with injuries top of the mitigating circumstances.It’s just one of the reasons Dalglish could cite for this season’s league performances.Lucas, Glen Johnson, Steven Gerrard, Daniel Agger – all have missed significant numbers of games. In the case of Lucas and Agger in particular, their influence on team performance is huge.Then there was the Luis Suarez sideshow. Dalglish handled it badly. So did the rest of the club. But in pure football terms it robbed the manager of his most effective attacker – and Suarez has never been the same again since.The summer signings largely haven’t worked – that can’t be ignored. Andy Carroll, too, still has a lot to prove.But they’re capable of more. There are players in there – we’ve seen it.

A new manager would call for new players. A new system. Liverpool would be back to square one.And who would that manager be? There’d be candidates, of course there would be. But what would the calibre of them be?It was the pulling power of the club – or rather the lack of it – that prompted Dalglish to put himself forward for the job in the first place.Is Liverpool any more attractive a proposition now? There’s still no stadium. There’s still no Chelsea or Man City-esque pot of gold to spend and there will be no place in the Champions League next season to tempt the top players. Talk of Jose Mourinho is fanciful for many reasons, not least for expecting an ego like that to work with a director of football.

The blood is still being wiped from the walls of Anfield from the messy battle to rid the club of Tom Hicks and George Gillett.Then, under Rafa Benitez, it was the best midfield in the world. Now it’s not even the best midfield in the league.World-class talent was replaced with lesser replacements. The pendulum is yet to swing back the other way. That will be the same whoever is in charge in the dugout.And does starting again under a new manager minus a big budget make any sense at all?Perhaps a master tactician could come in, drill the current squad and offer a more results-orientated approach to matters – points first, performances second.But Liverpool have had such managers in Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez. People still moaned and the media still sniped.

Perhaps instead of championing change expectations should be reeled in and tolerance extended to a man who has won the top division four times.Top four this season – or even higher – always seemed ambitious after what had come before. The turnover over of players has been huge, so it was always a big ask, particularly with an aim to lower wages and without the lure of Europe.Other teams looked better equipped and further developed from day one – so it has proved, although the Liverpool squad has clearly underachieved while the summer signings have largely failed.The smart buys of Newcastle that contributed to the latest setback only served as a painful reminder of what can happen when money is spent wisely.

Dalglish and Damien Comolli need to learn the lessons from the last few windows – that’s if they are given the chance.But whatever happens, whoever leads the team, Liverpool will face the same problems.Liverpool is still deemed a big club, but now it’s for its history and its support. It’s not the first-choice destination for players, it’s not offering the biggest wages and it plays in an ageing ground that is dwarfed by those of rival clubs.Now, if Manchester United and Liverpool chase the same player the player goes to Old Trafford. Ashley Young and Phil Jones are testimony to that fact – the boot has long been on the other foot.Yet expectations remain unchecked. None of it matters. It’s always the manager’s fault. It’s always that easy. When a manager’s lost it, he’s lost it – he can’t pull it back, can he?

Ferguson did. Perhaps Kenny can. While that possibility remains it’s a chance worth taking.

Pos	Club	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
12	Coventry City	38	14	7	17	39	59	−20	49
13	Manchester United	38	13	9	16	46	47	−1	48
14	Manchester City	38	12	12	14	43	52	−9	48

The article fails to take into account the time Fergie did all this, it fails to take into account the financial and competitive nature of the league, it fails to take into account the decline in quality of football being presented, it fails to understand why Dalglish isn't moving the club forward but is instead dragging it back, and it fails to understand how the managers job has changed massively since Dalglish was at the helm last time.

More so than anything it fails to see the bigger picture. Liverpool is on a steady decline, the investments, the public relations, the football, it has all been one strange mishap after the other. The club can not afford to wait for Dalglish to get into any grove, by that time they would have difficulty finding the funds for a new stadium, judging by current trends player funds will have heavily decreased and the overall attraction of Liverpool FC will have fallen to a point where getting back up would be very difficult indeed.

It's been an incredibly difficult year for Liverpool FC, and it has in no way been "soothed" by Dalglish. That combined with the style and efficiency of the performances on the pitch, as well as a dismal effort in the league, and the financial implications of this, all point to a need to salvage what they can before it is too late. This is not 1985, and any comparison to what one of the most successful managers in Britain did at that time can not be used in Dalglish' defence. It's simply not the same.

It proves that Fergie got time to build what he wanted, and ive never said Dalglish is a certainty to be the man to take Liverpool back into the top 4. And if things dont improve in the League this season and into next he will not be at Liverpool much longer. But one full season is not enough time for him to totally prove himself the correct man or not.

Alan wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

The article fails to take into account the time Fergie did all this, it fails to take into account the financial and competitive nature of the league, it fails to take into account the decline in quality of football being presented, it fails to understand why Dalglish isn't moving the club forward but is instead dragging it back, and it fails to understand how the managers job has changed massively since Dalglish was at the helm last time.

More so than anything it fails to see the bigger picture. Liverpool is on a steady decline, the investments, the public relations, the football, it has all been one strange mishap after the other. The club can not afford to wait for Dalglish to get into any grove, by that time they would have difficulty finding the funds for a new stadium, judging by current trends player funds will have heavily decreased and the overall attraction of Liverpool FC will have fallen to a point where getting back up would be very difficult indeed.

It's been an incredibly difficult year for Liverpool FC, and it has in no way been "soothed" by Dalglish. That combined with the style and efficiency of the performances on the pitch, as well as a dismal effort in the league, and the financial implications of this, all point to a need to salvage what they can before it is too late. This is not 1985, and any comparison to what one of the most successful managers in Britain did at that time can not be used in Dalglish' defence. It's simply not the same.

It proves that Fergie got time to build what he wanted, and ive never said Dalglish is a certainty to be the man to take Liverpool back into the top 4. And if things dont improve in the League this season and into next he will not be at Liverpool much longer. But one full season is not enough time for him to totally prove himself the correct man or not.

He has had one and a half, as well as enough money to build a decent side, and the club is going backwards. It's doing worse than it was a two years ago, and signs of improvement are scarce. That's not progress.

Fergie didn't finish 13th in the league after spending over £100m either.

If Dalglish stays on, he needs to improve things rapidly next season. If he doesn't and he's still got a job he's the luckiest man in football.

Sort of.