Given how the club has handled this situation, most probably.BladeGunner wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:Because he was one of the myriad Liverpool employees who backed Suarez's account.
What does he offer though? Was he just there to blindly back Suarez's words despite not even being on the football pitch?
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Suarez: written reasons
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- Post n°61
Re: Suarez: written reasons
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°62
Re: Suarez: written reasons
BladeGunner wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:Because he was one of the myriad Liverpool employees who backed Suarez's account.
What does he offer though? Was he just there to blindly back Suarez's words despite not even being on the football pitch?
He was one of the people who spoke to the referee following the game. Several Manchester United players who didn't hear the initial incident also gave evidence, talking about how Evra was unusually angry after the game. It probably wouldn't be given all that much weight.
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- Post n°63
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Cam wrote:Robyn van Persie wrote:
Your sig is fantastic.
Typical Robyn
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- Post n°67
Re: Suarez: written reasons
shit son, that horse has had that dildo up his arse so much he's laying down in agony, why post this fucked up shit you horrible muslim.SBSP wrote:
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- Post n°69
Re: Suarez: written reasons
ResurrectionRooney wrote:BladeGunner wrote:
What does he offer though? Was he just there to blindly back Suarez's words despite not even being on the football pitch?
He was one of the people who spoke to the referee following the game. Several Manchester United players who didn't hear the initial incident also gave evidence, talking about how Evra was unusually angry after the game. It probably wouldn't be given all that much weight.
Suarez probably started getting panicky and called in surprise witnesses.
El_indian-
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- Post n°70
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Alan wrote:Im exactly the same if he is supposed to have said this, its fucking shocking and he deserves to be banned. And if it is true i would be gutted and he better sort himself out.Laurencio wrote:Reading the account of the incidence I'm quite shocked at what Suarez is supposed to have said. There's not even any room for a missunderstanding in this case.
im with these guys
Lux-
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- Post n°71
Re: Suarez: written reasons
So my post was TL:DR or something?
Anyway......I have read through the next few pages which seems to outline the evidence....afterwards it seems to just be an aftermath of the events, and a deliberation which is going to be based on this evidence.
In my opinion, there is not enough evidence to believe Evra's version of events over Suarez. It is 50/50......the ref didn't hear it, Kuyt didn't hear it properly....and any other witness either didn't hear anything, or just heard Evra being angry afterwards. It's fairly hard to distinguish with all the translations and corrections....but Evra is complaining about being called "black" rather than "ice cream"......? At first he presumably was confused and later revised his statement to be "black" rather than "ice cream".....due to the conversation being in Spanish....so is it abusive? Being called black, when you're black, doesn't really seem like an offensive or abusive thing. The conversation is in Spanish too so...you need to take into account that the way in which words are used is quite different.
But yeah....that point is a consolation....as based on the evidence...there is no evidence. It is Evra's version vs Suarez's.....and the Commission have decided to go with Evra's. I don't know which is true.....it may very well be Evra's.....in which case I would say that Suarez is deserving of his punishment...but if there is not sufficient proof, and the decision is made with a guess......then it's fairly disappointing.
Anyway......I have read through the next few pages which seems to outline the evidence....afterwards it seems to just be an aftermath of the events, and a deliberation which is going to be based on this evidence.
In my opinion, there is not enough evidence to believe Evra's version of events over Suarez. It is 50/50......the ref didn't hear it, Kuyt didn't hear it properly....and any other witness either didn't hear anything, or just heard Evra being angry afterwards. It's fairly hard to distinguish with all the translations and corrections....but Evra is complaining about being called "black" rather than "ice cream"......? At first he presumably was confused and later revised his statement to be "black" rather than "ice cream".....due to the conversation being in Spanish....so is it abusive? Being called black, when you're black, doesn't really seem like an offensive or abusive thing. The conversation is in Spanish too so...you need to take into account that the way in which words are used is quite different.
But yeah....that point is a consolation....as based on the evidence...there is no evidence. It is Evra's version vs Suarez's.....and the Commission have decided to go with Evra's. I don't know which is true.....it may very well be Evra's.....in which case I would say that Suarez is deserving of his punishment...but if there is not sufficient proof, and the decision is made with a guess......then it's fairly disappointing.
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°72
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Lux, you're a massive racist though, it's not surprising you'd side with Suarez.
Lux-
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- Post n°73
Re: Suarez: written reasons
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Lux, you're a massive racist though, it's not surprising you'd side with Suarez.
I am not siding with Suarez, I am siding with reason. As you can see, I have made fair points and explained my opinions.....none of which have anything to do with racism. But of course, you probably did not read them.
You can keep saying that I'm racist.....it is the same response from anyone who believes that not totally and utterly agreeing with the minority "victim" is wrong (I don't wish to stereotype everyone....but it's my opinion of quite a lot of people in life)....and wishes to respond in a lazy way by saying "racist" rather than make any sense.
I won't side with anyone because they are white, and I won't stand against someone because they are black. But I believe that someone is innocent until proven guilty, and some of the other points that I have mentioned in my earlier post relate to neutral observations that I have made. I have had the same opinion with many cases, even when there is no racial issue involved. If there isn't proof..then the person can't be punished....it's not right.
I have quite fairly said that, should Evra's sequence of events be factual, then Suarez's punishment is just. But...to fully believe in Evra I would need proof.....and no such proof can be provided.....not even witnesses....biased or not.
People told me to wait for the evidence to arrive before passing judgement. Here is the evidence, and it is not satisfactory for me. If Suarez decides to give up and admit it then that is a different story.
VivaRonaldoLAD-
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- Post n°74
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Sorry if already mentioned.
According to the language experts who helped the FA, Suarez said negro atleast 7times during the 2 minute period.. they also said that it would be considered racist in Uruguay or any Latin country because of the context in which he used it..
According to the language experts who helped the FA, Suarez said negro atleast 7times during the 2 minute period.. they also said that it would be considered racist in Uruguay or any Latin country because of the context in which he used it..
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- Post n°75
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Oh no doubt he was being racist if what was said in the report is true.Viva Ronaldo 7 wrote:Sorry if already mentioned.
According to the language experts who helped the FA, Suarez said negro atleast 7times during the 2 minute period.. they also said that it would be considered racist in Uruguay or any Latin country because of the context in which he used it..
I however am not going to believe it until there is evidence besides Evra's testimonial.
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- Post n°76
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Lu❣s Suarez wrote:Oh no doubt he was being racist if what was said in the report is true.Viva Ronaldo 7 wrote:Sorry if already mentioned.
According to the language experts who helped the FA, Suarez said negro atleast 7times during the 2 minute period.. they also said that it would be considered racist in Uruguay or any Latin country because of the context in which he used it..
I however am not going to believe it until there is evidence besides Evra's testimonial.
What about Suarez's testimonial? What about Dalglish's testimonial that Suarez called Evra a negro in response to a taunt?
lvrpl4life-
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- Post n°77
Re: Suarez: written reasons
This shit's gettin' old. Evra is black, I wouldn't give a flying fuck if someone called me a white bastard, or a white supremisist or whatever.
But one word against another is not sufficient enough grounds to ban Mr Suarez.
But one word against another is not sufficient enough grounds to ban Mr Suarez.
Carlos Jenkinson-
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- Post n°78
Re: Suarez: written reasons
lvrpl4life wrote:This shit's gettin' old. Evra is black, I wouldn't give a flying fuck if someone called me a white bastard, or a white supremisist or whatever.
But one word against another is not sufficient enough grounds to ban Mr Suarez.
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°79
Re: Suarez: written reasons
lvrpl4life wrote:This shit's gettin' old. Evra is black, I wouldn't give a flying fuck if someone called me a white bastard, or a white supremisist or whatever.
But one word against another is not sufficient enough grounds to ban Mr Suarez.
For the hundredth time, it is not one man's word against another.
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- Post n°80
Re: Suarez: written reasons
I don't really get the rationale of people saying that we can't take the verdict seriously because it's just Evra's word against Suarez's. They've basically arranged a legal trial here and they've had both parties present their cases. Or is it that you guys completely disagree with the judiciary system in its entirety and feel we are never entitled to convict someone without clear cut, conclusive evidence?
Last edited by BladeGunner on Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Lux-
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- Post n°81
Re: Suarez: written reasons
BladeGunner wrote:I don't really get the rationale of people saying that we can't take the verdict seriously because it's just Evra's word against Suarez's. They've basically arranged a legal trial here and they've had both parties present their cases. Or is it that you guys completely disagree with the judiciary system in its entirety and feel we are never entitled to convict someone with clear cut, conclusive evidence?
Where is this clear cut, conclusive evidence?
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Re: Suarez: written reasons
There doesn't need to be clear cut, conclusive evidence because IT'S NOT A FUCKING CRIMINAL TRIAL. It is decided on the balance of probabilities.
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- Post n°83
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Lux wrote:BladeGunner wrote:I don't really get the rationale of people saying that we can't take the verdict seriously because it's just Evra's word against Suarez's. They've basically arranged a legal trial here and they've had both parties present their cases. Or is it that you guys completely disagree with the judiciary system in its entirety and feel we are never entitled to convict someone with clear cut, conclusive evidence?
Where is this clear cut, conclusive evidence?
Apologies, I meant to say without.
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- Post n°84
Re: Suarez: written reasons
ResurrectionRooney wrote:There doesn't need to be clear cut, conclusive evidence because IT'S NOT A FUCKING CRIMINAL TRIAL. It is decided on the balance of probabilities.
Lol, I already went over this point and I don't care.
People want evidence, it doesn't matter what kind of trial it is....they can find Suarez guilty....it makes no difference.
The FA can come to their decision based on no conclusive evidence, but I think I'll hold back my judgement thanks.
BladeGunner wrote:Apologies, I meant to say without.
Well then I would disagree. Innocent until proven guilty.
Last edited by Lux on Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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- Post n°85
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Only people defending Suarez anymore are Lux and Polska.
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- Post n°86
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Cam wrote:Only people defending Suarez anymore are Lux and Polska.
I'm not specifically defending Suarez, it could be the other way round and Evra could have been charged.
Either way, there isn't enough evidence.
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- Post n°87
Re: Suarez: written reasons
But it's a trial. They've had witnesses, lawyers and experts, and the conclusion they've reached is that he is guilty. This is not unreasonable by the FA. It is unreasonable to want conclusive evidence for something like this.
ResurrectionRooney-
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- Post n°88
Re: Suarez: written reasons
Lux wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:There doesn't need to be clear cut, conclusive evidence because IT'S NOT A FUCKING CRIMINAL TRIAL. It is decided on the balance of probabilities.
Lol, I already went over this point and I don't care.
People want evidence, it doesn't matter what kind of trial it is....they can find Suarez guilty....it makes no difference.
The FA can come to their decision based on no conclusive evidence, but I think I'll hold back my judgement thanks.
There is plenty of evidence, just read the document. Suarez admitted using the term negro, and Dalglish said it was in response to a taunt - is that not good enough evidence to show he used a reference to Evra's colour in abuse?
Lux-
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- Post n°89
Re: Suarez: written reasons
BladeGunner wrote:But it's a trial. They've had witnesses, lawyers and experts, and the conclusion they've reached is that he is guilty. This is not unreasonable by the FA. It is unreasonable to want conclusive evidence for something like this.
They're within their right to do the trial in that way.
But I'd say it's unreasonable to expect people to accept the decision.