Was Bin Laden Successful?

Sheppy wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:A bit controversial, but I want to hear what people really think. Did Bin Laden succeed or is going to succeed in his goal?

According to his ideology, the only way to defeat the USA and drive them out of the Middle East was to get the USA involved in a several small wars (with jihadists that will never give up) that will eventually collapse the USA economy. George Bush and his administration fell into the trap.

I believe the Iraq War had the biggest impact on the US, but I wouldn't necessarily associate that war with Osama or his people.

I don't believe that was Bin Ladens mission and he hasn't really succeeded at all.
- While it is costing America a buttload to keep up the fight in these countries, they are also making a buttload of money out of it
- Bin Laden did not kill the American economy, America killed it's own economy
- America has a foot in the middle east that it never had before. It has added more US Airports to it's world tally which will remain under US control for a very long time
- Osama is on the bottom of sea, America and Americans still walk free under Christianity.

That being said from a person who's very judgemental on America

Under Christianity? What do you mean? The USA is not a Christian nation and never has been.

Not by the constitution, but there have been times where the USA could have been described as a Christian nation.

ahlycotc wrote:Not by the constitution, but there have been times where the USA could have been described as a Christian nation.

I still disagree. The founding fathers never intended the USA to be governed by Christianity.

And I still don't think you could consider a nation with no official religion of a certain religion.

Roloman4 wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Not by the constitution, but there have been times where the USA could have been described as a Christian nation.

I still disagree. The founding fathers never intended the USA to be governed by Christianity.

And I still don't think you could consider a nation with no official religion of a certain religion.

The Salem witch trials come to mind.

One nation















under God

ahlycotc wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Not by the constitution, but there have been times where the USA could have been described as a Christian nation.

I still disagree. The founding fathers never intended the USA to be governed by Christianity.

And I still don't think you could consider a nation with no official religion of a certain religion.

The Salem witch trials come to mind.

Except they occured before the country was even formed.

Roloman4 wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Not by the constitution, but there have been times where the USA could have been described as a Christian nation.

I still disagree. The founding fathers never intended the USA to be governed by Christianity.

And I still don't think you could consider a nation with no official religion of a certain religion.

The Salem witch trials come to mind.

Except they occured before the country was even formed.

Touche.

I still believe that a lot of Americans would consider the USA as a Christian nation.

Swearing in on the Bible. In God we trust.

SBSP wrote:Swearing in on the Bible. In God we trust.

Oh shut up.

Naw cause we'll bounce back in about 20 years

dena wrote:Naw cause we'll bounce back in about 20 years

But the USA would be out of the Middle East by then. That was the main goal.

I'd say he was, if his plan was to bait the U.S into these wars in the middle east. He didn't ruin the economy though, that was the fault of those rich fuckers giving themselves bonuses after bonuses, even when they were already in debt. Also, it's partial fault of the U.S, they helped out Sadaam and helped create Bin Laden

ahlycotc wrote:What was Osama's mission then?

In my opnion, Bin Laden just wanted to kill and terrorize America and the rest of the western world for supporting Israel. Bin Laden has always had beef with American-Muslim relations and also wanted those Muslims who associated with Americans, punished. He thought America had too much control of some Islamic countries and was profiting from these countries while the countries themselves struggled. Essentially, he thought America was preventing Islamic countries from gaining any power and at the same time was giving Israel too much power.
Economics didn't play a part too much.

ahlycotc wrote:

dena wrote:Naw cause we'll bounce back in about 20 years

But the USA would be out of the Middle East by then. That was the main goal.

Naw we're never leaving man, not until it's dry.

SBSP wrote:Swearing in on the Bible. In God we trust.

Only brought in to fight communism, blatantly unconstitutional.

ahlycotc wrote:What was Osama's mission then?

You tell us, you sympathise with him.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:What was Osama's mission then?

You tell us, you sympathise with him.

I want you to tell me what his mission was. Because the way I see it, the US, the West, still has freedom of religion, hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed, Israel still exists, he's lying on the bottom of the sea, there have been no major terrorist attacks on the west since 9/11, with the exception of a couple of trains going up, and a lot of Muslims are unlawfully imprisoned.

If his mission was to make airport security a pain in the arse to get through, then well done Osama, mission accomplished.

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:USA went into Iraq because of 9/11. Iraq was one of the states the Jihadists operated from.

So yah, Bin Laden was successful in reaching his goal in that aspect.

What is the real reason the USA invaded Iraq? To this day, I still don't know.

Oil, setting up a US friendly nation in OPEC and military investment in the middle east.

Terrorism is the excuse, but I guess also a legitimate reason as well.

It depends what his mission was. Say his mission was to bring down American and the west like im sure he said, child please, then he failed. Like RR said, we are still the alfa male, the west is still there, Israel exists yada yada yada.

He did change things the world over, for sure. His name will be remembered.

I am glad that the last thing his dirty eyes ever saw was the muzzle of the gun in an American Navy SEAL's hand.

He knew we were gonna get him, and we did. If you kill Americans, we're going to find you and kill you.

Not without capital punishment you're not.

We JUST hunted down and killed Bin Laden and his sons. In spectacular fashion if you ask me.

polska. wrote:

Cadbury wrote:God doesn't exist.

And yet people are still killing other people over it!

It's fucking hilarious! People giving their lives away for an imagination!

Shut up.

polska. wrote:

Cadbury wrote:God doesn't exist.

And yet people are still killing other people over it!

It's fucking hilarious! People giving their lives away for an imagination!

I think the funniest thing out of all of this is...


Whenever I get on a plane, EVERY (i'm not sure what to call them without sounding racist, basically not white, not black but inbetween, can I just call them Muslim looking?) person goes through that security thing right before getting on the plane (not everyone goes through it, people are randomly chosen).

James wrote:I think the funniest thing out of all of this is...


Whenever I get on a plane, EVERY (i'm not sure what to call them without sounding racist, basically not white, not black but inbetween, can I just call them Muslim looking?) person goes through that security thing right before getting on the plane (not everyone goes through it, people are randomly chosen).

Really? Is that common at European airports? I usually go on flights 2-3 times a year and usually the individual selected for the random screening is relatively "random." I've seen white, black, asian, hispanic, young and old people screened before. To be honest, I've seen random elderly white woman harassed more at the airport than any Middle Eastern, South Asian, etc. person who people in the west often stereotype as being of a "terrorist" appearance.


Also, "Muslim looking" isn't so much racist as it is ignorant. Muslims come from a variety of backgrounds and aren't an ethnicity. Whites can be Muslims. Think Bosnians, Albanians, converts, etc. Blacks can be Muslim. Many African countries are mostly Islamic. Asians can be Muslim. Islam is the dominant religion in Indonesia.

I think what you mean by "Muslim looking" is the stereotype of associating North Africans, Middle Eastern and South Asian looking people with Islam.

mac wrote:Also, "Muslim looking" isn't so much racist as it is ignorant. Muslims come from a variety of backgrounds and aren't an ethnicity. Whites can be Muslims. Think Bosnians, Albanians, converts, etc. Blacks can be Muslim. Many African countries are mostly Islamic. Asians can be Muslim. Islam is the dominant religion in Indonesia.

I think what you mean by "Muslim looking" is the stereotype of associating North Africans, Middle Eastern and South Asian looking people with Islam.

Exactly, though it is still possible to spot a Muslim out of a crowd.

For starters, you have the obvious ones....the women with head scarves. It's quite easy to tell a north African from those who are not.....the Moroccan/Tunisian/Egyptian type etc etc as well as Middle Eastern are easy to spot as their skin colour is significant. Not usually the same as those from India, so you can presume they are Muslim.

The Black East North Africans are also easy to tell.....they have the curly hair, or look frail.....basically they have that "Somalian" look about them. I guess West African Muslims would be harder to tell apart from those from Ghana or Nigeria etc etc (not to forget that some of those are Muslim themselves)

The Balkan Muslims are obviously quite impossible to distinguish..........

People from Pakistan usually look different to those from India too....skin colour wise.

You also have the Malaysians....no amazingly obvious signs (let's be honest...it's pretty hard to tell them all apart ) I guess if I were to hazard a guess I'd be able to get it right most of the time as there as some differences between those from Malaysia and those from the China and Japan/Korea area.

But yeah....with all that in mind there is no surefire way to know.....but most people are referring to the North African/Middle East/Pakistani people when they talk about Muslims.

Lux wrote:
Exactly, though it is still possible to spot a Muslim out of a crowd.

For starters, you have the obvious ones....the women with head scarves. It's quite easy to tell a north African from those who are not.....the Moroccan/Tunisian/Egyptian type etc etc as well as Middle Eastern are easy to spot as their skin colour is significant. Not usually the same as those from India, so you can presume they are Muslim.

The Black East North Africans are also easy to tell.....they have the curly hair, or look frail.....basically they have that "Somalian" look about them. I guess West African Muslims would be harder to tell apart from those from Ghana or Nigeria etc etc.

The Balkan Muslims are obviously quite impossible to distinguish..........

People from Pakistan usually look different to those from India too....skin colour wise.

You also have the Malaysians....no amazingly obvious signs (let's be honest...it's pretty hard to tell them all apart ) I guess if I were to hazard a guess I'd be able to get it right most of the time as there as some differences between those from Malaysia and those from the China and Japan/Korea area.

I agree it is possible to pick out a Mulsim from a crowed if they are wearing a piece of clothing, jewelry or some other type of religious/cultural symbol commonly associated with Islam and Muslims.

Still, you have to take into consideration that many Muslim or Islamic countries have large Christian and other minority populations. Think Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, etc. These people will look exactly like their Mulsim counterparts.

In regards to some of your other points, I could address some of them but they aren't really relevant to the discussion. For example, only a very small percentage of Pakistanis and Indians share ethnic/cultural ties. The rest are Muhajirs or Mulsim immigrants from India. You can even make it more complicated as you have to recognize that Pakistani and Indian aren't ethnicities and both countries have a variety of ethnic groups with their own culture and practices,

Same thing could be said for Malaysia and China, Japan and Korea. Malaysia is in southeast asia while China, Japan and Korea are in east asia (japan and korea mostly northeast asia). There are cultural and ethnical differences between Japanese and Koreans so the difference between groups like them and southeast asians like Malaysians is even larger.

Anyways, I don't want to stray too far topic as this thread is focused on Bin Laden and whether he was successful in his "supposed" goals or not.

Mustangt125 wrote:It depends what his mission was. Say his mission was to bring down American and the west like im sure he said, child please, then he failed. Like RR said, we are still the alfa male, the west is still there, Israel exists yada yada yada.

He did change things the world over, for sure. His name will be remembered.

I am glad that the last thing his dirty eyes ever saw was the muzzle of the gun in an American Navy SEAL's hand.

He knew we were gonna get him, and we did. If you kill Americans, we're going to find you and kill you.

Unless you're Israeli, in which case it's perfectly fine to kill Americans...

Well obviously other people get randomly selected as well. But you know what the stereotypical Muslim looks like.. These always get put through the security thing no matter what. From what i've seen anyway.