Is suicide for the weak minded?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:On the contrary, there's no reason to assume they are all, or even the majority of them, are weak minded, especially when you don't know them. You are just making judgements from ignorance.

On the contrary, there's every reason to assume that.

I don't have figures with %'s for "reasons for committing suicide", but let's assume that the highest percentage do so out of depression. If it's not then I'd be surprised but...it's not really that relevant. I've already clearly demonstrated that I have a differing view depending on the circumstances.

The point is, we are programmed to live, have offspring, protect our offspring, and keep on living. That is simple and pretty much universal, beyond just humans. You have examples of some animals where they kill themselves...for example some spiders feed themselves to their children. But that's to protect their offspring.

But yeah...humans are obviously more advanced, but in terms of suicide that is only going to serve as a weakness.

From an evolutionary point of view, yeah, but not from a rational one.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:From an evolutionary point of view, yeah, but not from a rational one.

Ok, so give me a "rational" example then, other than the obvious "poor quality of life due to X fucked up brain illness, or paralysis etc."

*edit* Also, it's not evolutionary. We didn't evolve from every other animal, organism etc... it's a universal thing.

Lux wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:From an evolutionary point of view, yeah, but not from a rational one.

Ok, so give me a "rational" example then, other than the obvious "poor quality of life due to X fucked up brain illness, or paralysis etc."

Well they are rational examples. A person might just generally be unhappy and not feel like is going to improve, they may be drowning in debt, or their family/friends might have been killed or died out and they don't feel they'll recover from that blow or be able to make new ones. Their surroundings might be extremely unpleasant and not worth living in. There are myriad reasons.

If you consider how odious the world is and how little one is personally doing to change it then suicide is a very a sound option. It also takes an exceptional amount of courage to confront the horrors of society through death without really knowing what lies ahead.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Well they are rational examples. A person might just generally be unhappy and not feel like is going to improve, they may be drowning in debt, or their family/friends might have been killed or died out and they don't feel they'll recover from that blow or be able to make new ones. Their surroundings might be extremely unpleasant and not worth living in. There are myriad reasons.

Someone who was strong willed would not succumb to any of those.

People in slums live in "extremely unpleasant" surroundings and conditions. I bet that suicide in those regions is VERY low.

It's a cultural thing....people have become too settled and happy with their spoiled lives...and have no idea or empathy for the people who are so much worse off than them...yet they still want to end a life that billions could only dream of.

People should overcome these obstacles and keep going. I don't expect people to find it easy....but life is a challenge, and killing yourself is the cowards way out. If you believe there is something after death, then it is even more cowardly.

It's not easy to kill yourself, but to prefer it to living your "unbearable" life is even cowardly. Like I said 100 times, it depends on the situation but I can draw my own "opinion line" between "fair enough" and "weak"

Harsh, but fair. Life is sacred, and whilst I don't believe that we belong to the government, we do to an extent have an obligation to live and contribute to a government and country which has supported us. It's also selfish, and unfair on the people who love you. I know some guy who's dad hung himself, and he walked into his house to find his dad hanging. Fuck that dad, it DEEPLY messed up that guy's life.

Nothing cowardly about it, if you have a shit life and you're tired of it, it's perfectly rational and 'strong minded' to kill yourself. Why should you carry on living if you're not happy? I tihnk it would be cowardly to continue to live a miserable existence for the sake of other people, stand up for yourself for fucks sake.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Nothing cowardly about it, if you have a shit life and you're tired of it, it's perfectly rational and 'strong minded' to kill yourself. Why should you carry on living if you're not happy? I tihnk it would be cowardly to continue to live a miserable existence for the sake of other people, stand up for yourself for fucks sake.

That's a weak mindset to have. That's my entire point.

Explain how it is 'weak'.

RR: I'm assuming there was some evidence of a struggle to get out. They do investigations on this type of thing I believe. I was only young at the time so have only picked up what people have said. Don't really wanna ask about details on why and how my uncle died.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Explain how it is 'weak'.

Believing that there is nothing to live for, and wanting to kill yourself?

You can't explain it from the person who's killing themselves own mindset. They can't psychologically judge themselves. Someone wanting to die doesn't mean it's ok and acceptable, simply because they themselves think it is and want to.

James wrote:RR: I'm assuming there was some evidence of a struggle to get out. They do investigations on this type of thing I believe. I was only young at the time so have only picked up what people have said. Don't really wanna ask about details on why and how my uncle died.

OK, but I can't imagine you'd struggle to get out of a car, they're designed to very easy to get out of in case of a crash. Are you sure you weren't just told that to make you feel better?

Lux wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Explain how it is 'weak'.

Believing that there is nothing to live for, and wanting to kill yourself?

You can't explain it from the person who's killing themselves own mindset. They can't psychologically judge themselves. Someone wanting to die doesn't mean it's ok and acceptable, simply because they themselves think it is and want to.

Yes, explain how that is weak.

You can't psychologically judge them either, but you seem to making a pretty persistent attempt at it. Why isn't it OK or acceptable to kill oneself if one wants to? Who the fuck are you to tell someone you don't even know that it's unacceptable for them to end their own life?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Yes, explain how that is weak.

You can't psychologically judge them either, but you seem to making a pretty persistent attempt at it. Why isn't it OK or acceptable to kill oneself if one wants to? Who the fuck are you to tell someone you don't even know that it's unacceptable for them to end their own life?

Your being incredibly stubborn and unreasonable.

I don't need to have a degree, or know anyone specifically to have my opinion. If you don't value my opinion, then you're unlikely to value anyone's opinions on here, because no one here has the experience or qualification to talk about this with any professional experience.

You are not a footballer, and you do not know players personally, yet you are on a football forum discussing football. Who the fuck are you to have an opinion on something without the ridiculously retarded standards you are setting? Tbh, you shouldn't value pretty much anything you say based on their requisite.

Either way, my opinion is based upon my own experiences, other people I know's experiences, and I have studied this to an extent. I have already explained myself, if you can't read then that's your problem.

Fuck it, I'm done with this, it's just generalisations, attacking millions of people for having 'weak minds', it's grossly unfair and above all, it's ignorant. And you're obviously not going to change your mind despite that.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Fuck it, I'm done with this, it's just generalisations, attacking millions of people for having 'weak minds', it's grossly unfair and above all, it's ignorant. And you're obviously not going to change your mind despite that.

You take it personally, the fact is that it's a label. You can't just assume that everything that everyone does is completely reasonable...and give them the benefit of the doubt.

Suicide is not a normal thing to do. Simply put, I'd say you need justification, rather than being given the benefit of the doubt.

Being weak is perhaps an "attack" if that is how you want to think of it. The fact is it, many people are weak, and that is why they make these decisions.

No one casually says "I'm bored of life, I'm going to top myself".

Yet again, another thread where you fail to do anything but stick to your stubborn views. I am reasonable, I can talk to anyone and compromise views, reconsider things etc. You just sit there, thinking you're king of the hill, and anyone who doesn't agree should be treated like shit. End of it is, you will receive a lot of "Go fuck yourselves"

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

James wrote:RR: I'm assuming there was some evidence of a struggle to get out. They do investigations on this type of thing I believe. I was only young at the time so have only picked up what people have said. Don't really wanna ask about details on why and how my uncle died.

OK, but I can't imagine you'd struggle to get out of a car, they're designed to very easy to get out of in case of a crash. Are you sure you weren't just told that to make you feel better?

I've never been directly told about it. I've been there when conversations have happened and i've just picked it up.

I'm assuming it is something along the lines of, he tried to get out and died as he was trying to.

I have a massive fear of death, but if I were ever in one of those situations RR mentioned where life becomes excruciatingly painful/difficult or I just become a burden on people I'd contemplate offing myself.

Speaking from experience of suffering mental illness and I still do (As most of you know I've been into a mental ward ), no it's not for the weak minded because mental illness is tougher to go through then you think, I don't listen to that shit that anyone can live through anything, that's not true, mental illness is itself a torture, a constant torture, that in my opinion you never will recover from, and it never stops. You go through so much with a mental illness, because what there is a fucking chemical imbalance in your brain, it is one of the toughest experiences anyone can go through, and the thought of suicide is one many people think about because it is a excruciating pain, life does become difficult, you don't end up thinking straight, and then bang it is the best option, the way out of pain, all the suffering, you don't have to live the rest of your life going through all of that.

But to answer the question, no it's not for weak-minded because speaking from the mental illness they go through all of that and it just becomes the best option, and to know what those last few moments of your life is, and your ending at your own hands, that's a tough thing to go through with, but it is a comforting thing as well.

Personally right now, Id rather feel depressed with the chance of fleeting happiness than not feel anything at all.

@GK
You CAN live through anything that doesn't physically kill you, but that doesn't mean it's desireable to do so.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:@GK
You CAN live through anything that doesn't physically kill you, but that doesn't mean it's desireable to do so.

You can but it doesn't make it the best option, if you break down every half an hour, and can't live your life normally, think straight, although you're still physically living, you're not mentally living.

Depends on your perception of "weak", but having a mental illness that leads to you killing yourself is surely what you would define as a weakness....?

GK01 wrote:Speaking from experience of suffering mental illness and I still do (As most of you know I've been into a mental ward ), no it's not for the weak minded because mental illness is tougher to go through then you think, I don't listen to that shit that anyone can live through anything, that's not true, mental illness is itself a torture, a constant torture, that in my opinion you never will recover from, and it never stops. You go through so much with a mental illness, because what there is a fucking chemical imbalance in your brain, it is one of the toughest experiences anyone can go through, and the thought of suicide is one many people think about because it is a excruciating pain, life does become difficult, you don't end up thinking straight, and then bang it is the best option, the way out of pain, all the suffering, you don't have to live the rest of your life going through all of that.

But to answer the question, no it's not for weak-minded because speaking from the mental illness they go through all of that and it just becomes the best option, and to know what those last few moments of your life is, and your ending at your own hands, that's a tough thing to go through with, but it is a comforting thing as well.

You don't half talk some shite.

Lux wrote:Depends on your perception of "weak", but having a mental illness that leads to you killing yourself is surely what you would define as a weakness....?

Well having a mental illness as I said is one of the toughest things people can go through, you may see it as a weak thing, I see it as the best thing to do and you have to be quite strong to do it. I guess it is a weakness as a person, but it's still tough thing to go through. I'm not explaining this very well

kyro7 wrote:

GK01 wrote:Speaking from experience of suffering mental illness and I still do (As most of you know I've been into a mental ward ), no it's not for the weak minded because mental illness is tougher to go through then you think, I don't listen to that shit that anyone can live through anything, that's not true, mental illness is itself a torture, a constant torture, that in my opinion you never will recover from, and it never stops. You go through so much with a mental illness, because what there is a fucking chemical imbalance in your brain, it is one of the toughest experiences anyone can go through, and the thought of suicide is one many people think about because it is a excruciating pain, life does become difficult, you don't end up thinking straight, and then bang it is the best option, the way out of pain, all the suffering, you don't have to live the rest of your life going through all of that.

But to answer the question, no it's not for weak-minded because speaking from the mental illness they go through all of that and it just becomes the best option, and to know what those last few moments of your life is, and your ending at your own hands, that's a tough thing to go through with, but it is a comforting thing as well.

You don't half talk some shite.

What?

What, you've been in a loonie bin?

Cam wrote:What, you've been in a loonie bin?

Yes, I've been in a loonie bin, if you want to call it that

GK01 wrote:

Lux wrote:Depends on your perception of "weak", but having a mental illness that leads to you killing yourself is surely what you would define as a weakness....?

Well having a mental illness as I said is one of the toughest things people can go through, you may see it as a weak thing, I see it as the best thing to do and you have to be quite strong to do it. I guess it is a weakness as a person, but it's still tough thing to go through. I'm not explaining this very well

"Mental illness" isn't exactly a very precise group of people.

Anyway, it's a tough thing being mentally ill.....but you don't really have a choice.

Lux wrote:

GK01 wrote:

Lux wrote:Depends on your perception of "weak", but having a mental illness that leads to you killing yourself is surely what you would define as a weakness....?

Well having a mental illness as I said is one of the toughest things people can go through, you may see it as a weak thing, I see it as the best thing to do and you have to be quite strong to do it. I guess it is a weakness as a person, but it's still tough thing to go through. I'm not explaining this very well

"Mental illness" isn't exactly a very precise group of people.

Well it is, because mental illness although all have different effects on people, they all torture people the same (Although they have different effects).

Well, you say that.....but some people with mental illnesses don't know better, and just live their life happy like a kid.