Is Suicide a coward's way out?

Discuss.

No, suicide is often a rational choice.

To assume that it's cowardly is to assume that suicide is easy.

Imagine how bad your life must be that the better alternative is not to live at all.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:No, suicide is often a rational choice.

Thinking about Gary Speed's situation. He has children, parents, friends and a wife. Who are all going to suffer because of this one person's suicide.

His children are now going to grow up without a father. His wife has lost a loving husband. His parents have lost a son and his friends have lost a friend.

By taking his own life, he is also taking away the happiness of a lot of other people.

(btw I'm 50/50 on this topic)

It depends of course. In Gary Speeds case I think it was. But say you're back in World War II, you and your team mates are being tortured by the nazi's. You could be a 'hero' and accept being tortured and eventually die or you could be a 'coward' and get yourself out of the mess and put a bullet through your head.

I'll answer it another way.

I don't think it's the right or best option 95% of the time.

It's hardly easy to kill yourself...but then again some people are more scared of life than death...so some people might consider it the easy way out.

Scott wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:No, suicide is often a rational choice.

Thinking about Gary Speed's situation. He has children, parents, friends and a wife. Who are all going to suffer because of this one person's suicide.

His children are now going to grow up without a father. His wife has lost a loving husband. His parents have lost a son and his friends have lost a friend.

By taking his own life, he is also taking away the happiness of a lot of other people.

(btw I'm 50/50 on this topic)

I thought we were talking about suicide in general, in Gary Speed's case,, we don't know the details. It's possible he was mentally ill or had a breakdown, indeed it's likely. To attribute critical labels to people after they've died, it just seems pointless, and needlessly controversial to me.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:No, suicide is often a rational choice.

Just because it's rational doesn't mean it's not cowardly. Nazis who took cyanide tablets to avoid capture were cowards. But as you mentioned in your last post, most suicides are the result of mental illness. In those instances, there's nothing cowardly about it.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Scott wrote:

Thinking about Gary Speed's situation. He has children, parents, friends and a wife. Who are all going to suffer because of this one person's suicide.

His children are now going to grow up without a father. His wife has lost a loving husband. His parents have lost a son and his friends have lost a friend.

By taking his own life, he is also taking away the happiness of a lot of other people.

(btw I'm 50/50 on this topic)

I thought we were talking about suicide in general, in Gary Speed's case,, we don't know the details. It's possible he was mentally ill or had a breakdown, indeed it's likely. To attribute critical labels to people after they've died, it just seems pointless, and needlessly controversial to me.

i had a cousin that suicide. he was only married for a year and had a toddler daughter. to me he is a coward

i didnt cry for him

mauro=beast wrote:i had a cousin that suicide. he was only married for a year and had a toddler daughter. to me he is a coward

i didnt cry for him

That's because you don't understand that mental illness is just as legitimate of a health threat as cancer, or heart disease, or any other physical illness.

It's not cowardly, it's selfish though.

No. I'm surprised you act like this Scott. Especially after the cowardly things Liverpool fans have done in the past, killing other fans, killing their own, etc.

menalawyerguy wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:No, suicide is often a rational choice.

Just because it's rational doesn't mean it's not cowardly. Nazis who took cyanide tablets to avoid capture were cowards. But as you mentioned in your last post, most suicides are the result of mental illness. In those instances, there's nothing cowardly about it.

That's not cowardly, it's smart, going out on your own terms.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:

Just because it's rational doesn't mean it's not cowardly. Nazis who took cyanide tablets to avoid capture were cowards. But as you mentioned in your last post, most suicides are the result of mental illness. In those instances, there's nothing cowardly about it.

That's not cowardly, it's smart, going out on your own terms.

That's not why they did it though. They did it because they didn't want to stand trial and/or didn't want to face interrogation and give up useful information. Again, something can be cowardly and smart/rational at the same time. They didn't want face the music. So they did the rational but cowardly thing and swallowed a pill.

Meh, Allied POWs just hung on in there and tried to escape*......and that was with the Nazi's. Surely life for a German soldier in an Allied camp couldn't have been worse?

* no pun intended *

Lux wrote:Meh, Allied POWs just hung on in there and tried to escape*......and that was with the Nazi's. Surely life for a German soldier in an Allied camp couldn't have been worse?

* no pun intended *

If it was an American or British camp.

The Soviets kept some pretty harsh camps though.

menalawyerguy wrote:

Lux wrote:Meh, Allied POWs just hung on in there and tried to escape*......and that was with the Nazi's. Surely life for a German soldier in an Allied camp couldn't have been worse?

* no pun intended *

If it was an American or British camp.

The Soviets kept some pretty harsh camps though.

Fair point.

I doubt many of the people who died at the hands of Germans attempted suicide. Could assume that some messed up psychology was pushed into those German soldier's minds.....

menalawyerguy wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

That's not cowardly, it's smart, going out on your own terms.

That's not why they did it though. They did it because they didn't want to stand trial and/or didn't want to face interrogation and give up useful information. Again, something can be cowardly and smart/rational at the same time. They didn't want face the music. So they did the rational but cowardly thing and swallowed a pill.

What is brave about standing trial? There's nothing cowardly about avoiding an unpleasant experience. Also, I'd say offing yourself to make sure you protect the lives of your comrades, rather than giving up information in interrogations, is actually quite brave.

No

James wrote:No. I'm surprised you act like this Scott. Especially after the cowardly things Liverpool fans have done in the past, killing other fans, killing their own, etc.

I'm not on either side, like I said earlier, I'm very much 50/50 on it.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:

That's not why they did it though. They did it because they didn't want to stand trial and/or didn't want to face interrogation and give up useful information. Again, something can be cowardly and smart/rational at the same time. They didn't want face the music. So they did the rational but cowardly thing and swallowed a pill.

What is brave about standing trial? There's nothing cowardly about avoiding an unpleasant experience. Also, I'd say offing yourself to make sure you protect the lives of your comrades, rather than giving up information in interrogations, is actually quite brave.

What's brave about partaking in the biggest conflagration in history, not to mention the systematic genocide of 11 million people and then avoiding your just desserts? For somebody who doesn't have a mental illness, offing yourself to avoid a deserved unpleasant experience can still be cowardly. In fact, isn't that the definition of a coward: somebody who lacks the courage to face what he has coming?

In the case of Speed, no.

Sheppy wrote:It's not cowardly, it's selfish though.

I was going to say the exact same.

I thought that it was when I was younger, but I've come to understand the extent to which someone must be far gone in order to commit suicide.

Personally I can't imagine any situation in which I would do it.

Rei Andros wrote:I thought that it was when I was younger, but I've come to understand the extent to which someone must be far gone in order to commit suicide.

Personally I can't imagine any situation in which I would do it.

You have a limited imagination.

Rei Andros wrote:I thought that it was when I was younger, but I've come to understand the extent to which someone must be far gone in order to commit suicide.

Personally I can't imagine any situation in which I would do it.

You're being ravaged by a pack of hyenas. You have a gun with one bullet in the mag. There's nobody around to help you. Escape is not even remotely possible. What do you do?

I guess because I haven't experienced the extent of things when I hear someone has committed suicide who has kids it makes me very very angry.