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36 posters
Hillsborough documents petition
Jordi- .
- Posts : 36039
Age : 29
Supports : Saints
Guest- Guest
Signed
JFT96 and all the others who have suffered
JFT96 and all the others who have suffered
Childish Logic-
- Formerly known as : NZG
Posts : 13745
Age : 32
Supports : Lucas
You are possibly the best troll to grace the internet. Look at that sig of yours.ResurrectionRooney wrote:Be careful what you wish for is all I'm saying.
Perhaps I can explain it better in the form of a parable
I remember when I was little, I once asked my mum for some ice cream, and she gave me sum, but I was a greedy little fucker and I wanted it all. She said 'No Resurrection*, you can't have this tub of ice cream', even though my friend said 'Give him the ice cream, it's in his interest', (eloquent little fucker he was, he was only 4 as well). So I banged on and on at my mum, 'Mum, give me the tub, I want it, I want it, I want it', I even wrote down that I wanted it in her notebook and got my mates to sign it. Eventually she got sick of it and gave me the tub of ice cream, I ate the lot and was sick for a week, never wanted to see the stuff again.
*some names have been changed to protect the identities of minors
"fucking sublime"
-kem
Guest- Guest
ResurrectionRooney wrote:I reckon there's probably a reason why they're not releasing them, and you scousers might not be too happy about it when your campaign of pressure eventually succeeds. Boris Johnson was a journalist at a News International newspaper, is a senior politician, and he once claimed that, broadly speaking, drunk and ticketless fans were a cause at Hillsborough. In addition, the allegations that were printed in The Sun newspaper under the headline THE TRUTH, Mr. McKenzie has always stood by them despite being hated and vilified for printing them. The nature of these documents is such that no-one knows what they will show? Can you imagine if they backed up The Sun's claims, or apportioned blame to the Liverpool fans? You guys always assume that there are conspiracies that are working against you, maybe this one's working for you.
The first duty of the government is to protect it's citizens, that includes scousers, includes families of the dead, and includes protecting from psychological harm, maybe you guys should think about that, and move on. Some information is best locked in a vault and destroyed with acid.
Still, the release of literally every document might put an end to all the 'JFT96' nonsense (although I doubt it - a public enquiry and an apology form the Sun did nothing to slow it), so I'll sign it.
And why not come out with all the other things that happened aswell, and why did you not just sign it and shut the fuck up.
Guest- Guest
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Be careful what you wish for is all I'm saying.
Perhaps I can explain it better in the form of a parable
I remember when I was little, I once asked my mum for some ice cream, and she gave me sum, but I was a greedy little fucker and I wanted it all. She said 'No Resurrection*, you can't have this tub of ice cream', even though my friend said 'Give him the ice cream, it's in his interest', (eloquent little fucker he was, he was only 4 as well). So I banged on and on at my mum, 'Mum, give me the tub, I want it, I want it, I want it', I even wrote down that I wanted it in her notebook and got my mates to sign it. Eventually she got sick of it and gave me the tub of ice cream, I ate the lot and was sick for a week, never wanted to see the stuff again.
*some names have been changed to protect the identities of minors
Ice cream and being sick is the same as people losing life is it.
RoryOB94-
- Posts : 310
Age : 29
Supports : Manchester United
The thing I don't understand is what do Liverpool fans think the report will show?
Lux-
- Posts : 9892
Age : 32
Location : North West London
Supports : Watford FC
I'm all for transparency when it's not the kind of thing that fucks up your country and gives Terrorists information.......
Signed.
Signed.
Gegilworld93-
- Posts : 10414
Age : 31
Location : Winterthur, Switzerland
Supports : Arsenal FC, FC Winterthur
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Be careful what you wish for is all I'm saying.
Perhaps I can explain it better in the form of a parable
I remember when I was little, I once asked my mum for some ice cream, and she gave me sum, but I was a greedy little fucker and I wanted it all. She said 'No Resurrection*, you can't have this tub of ice cream', even though my friend said 'Give him the ice cream, it's in his interest', (eloquent little fucker he was, he was only 4 as well). So I banged on and on at my mum, 'Mum, give me the tub, I want it, I want it, I want it', I even wrote down that I wanted it in her notebook and got my mates to sign it. Eventually she got sick of it and gave me the tub of ice cream, I ate the lot and was sick for a week, never wanted to see the stuff again.
*some names have been changed to protect the identities of minors
Theo Filippo-
- Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
Posts : 21636
Age : 30
Hence why its an analogy.Alan wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:Be careful what you wish for is all I'm saying.
Perhaps I can explain it better in the form of a parable
I remember when I was little, I once asked my mum for some ice cream, and she gave me sum, but I was a greedy little fucker and I wanted it all. She said 'No Resurrection*, you can't have this tub of ice cream', even though my friend said 'Give him the ice cream, it's in his interest', (eloquent little fucker he was, he was only 4 as well). So I banged on and on at my mum, 'Mum, give me the tub, I want it, I want it, I want it', I even wrote down that I wanted it in her notebook and got my mates to sign it. Eventually she got sick of it and gave me the tub of ice cream, I ate the lot and was sick for a week, never wanted to see the stuff again.
*some names have been changed to protect the identities of minors
Ice cream and being sick is the same as people losing life is it.
Guest- Guest
It should show what was a cover up and tell the actually truth of what happened.RoryOB94 wrote:The thing I don't understand is what do Liverpool fans think the report will show?
A MANCS VIEW
I’m a United supporter. I’m from Manchester, well Salford to be precise.
I don’t like Liverpool. That’s the plan isn’t it? The script we all adhere to. Something only people from one of the two cities could understand. Our city is better than yours, yes you have the river and easy access to a beach but we’re Manchester. We started the industrial revolution, we invented the computer, we split the first atom. You played a major part in the slave trade.
I don’t like scousers. That’s the norm isn’t it? I prefer Mancunians. Scousers don’t like me. Scousers don’t like Mancs. All very well and good, except it’s rubbish. I do like most Scousers, indeed the ratio between my like of individual Scousers and Mancs is no doubt exact. I’m not going to stereotype Scousers as being salt-of-the-earth or having wit. They’re people, all individuals, all like you and me in their own ways.
When I was younger I’d hear conversations in pubs and offices and take part in them. Surely they knew they were killing their own fans? Surely they knew they were going in the wrong section? Surely some of the fans were to blame? I’m not ashamed of having those thoughts, it’s natural. It’s a natural question to ask of such a situation. I ask questions of many situations and my queries were not to be confused with insults. I kept them to myself mostly but read a bit. Here and there. I read more each year and each year I feel more closely connected to what happened in Sheffield. I feel more informed.
Perhaps it’s because I’m now a parent. Perhaps it’s because I’m older. I’m not sure why but each year with the more articles, diaries, first hand accounts I read, I feel more emotionally connected. This makes me more likely to talk to others about it. My mother who has buggered off to Spain for her 60′s came to stay yesterday and last night we sat and talked about Hillsborough. How when I was a youngster aged nine she was trying to explain to me what had happened, she knew little herself as the coverage had been so confused, she didn’t know what to say. She just told me that evening she was washing the dishes and realised that there would be many mothers who had seen their excited sons off to football that morning, like she had done many times herself, who would never see them again. She said she had cried and felt angry, she still gets upset now.
These genuine emotions make the behaivour of some football fans sickening.
Ignorant, insulting, and bizarre.
Last week against Fulham, during the barracking of Danny Murphy which I whole heartedly joined in with, I heard a man behind me shout ’96 was not enough’. Well I say shout, he more murmored it. I expect he knew that anything louder would result in him being shouted down, or worse/better. I believe I was the only one to hear, I was filled with rage. To be fair, I’m easily filled with rage. I wasn’t sure how to react and in my time thinking, the moment had passed. The ball had moved on and those who hadn’t noticed originally were not going to notice now.
I needed to let him know though. All I could do was simply turn and stare at him. He and I knew why I was giving him the Eaves stare. It was enough, if anything ever could be, to let him know this wasn’t on. In these moments you want to transport yourself and the idiot to a quiet country pub and drink and explain. Explain to the idiot why what he said is ridiculous, read the idiot the first hand accounts that never fail to bring tears to my eyes. Tell the idiot about the young man who cannot forget the feeling of crushing ribs under his feet. The young man who couldn’t remove his elbow from crushing someone’s windpipe before it was too late.
The Eaves stare is pretty good, but couldn’t convey that.
However these idiots are becoming rarer. I hope it’s because they read a bit. Here and there. I hope that they are not just biting their lip through a fear of being controversial. I hope that they are not just stopping the chants because they feel they should. I hope they have learned and feel the connection all football supporters should with Hillsborough.
Whilst the campaigners may not get the Justice For The 96 that they so desperately crave, their efforts are rewarded. This year many people will have read the first hand accounts through links on Twitter, Facebook, the rest. They’ll have read articles in papers. I have no doubt that somewhere today there’s an individual who had questions and now feels they are answered. An idiot will have been turned.
Somewhere today someone will have shed their first tear for Hillsborough, they won’t forget it. I don’t forget mine.
To read more from Annie Eaves follow her on Twitter @AnnieEaves
Lux-
- Posts : 9892
Age : 32
Location : North West London
Supports : Watford FC
^ That dude is fine, it's probably a bit over the top to say that all football fans should feel a connection to Hillsborough. You just can't expect that. The world is too big and full of hate, death and whatever else for people to take a personal interest in everything.
I don't mind people who do, and like he said it's fair enough to be angry at people who mock the dead if you feel a connection......
Most people who mock are just ignorant (like myself before......), but generally people don't mean badly....I think there is easily a middle ground between passionate hatred and contempt, and passionate love, etc.
It would be nice to have the truth out so that people would be more at peace in regards to Hillsborough.
I don't mind people who do, and like he said it's fair enough to be angry at people who mock the dead if you feel a connection......
Most people who mock are just ignorant (like myself before......), but generally people don't mean badly....I think there is easily a middle ground between passionate hatred and contempt, and passionate love, etc.
It would be nice to have the truth out so that people would be more at peace in regards to Hillsborough.
RoryOB94-
- Posts : 310
Age : 29
Supports : Manchester United
But they said it was bad policing so what could they be covering up?Alan wrote:It should show what was a cover up and tell the actually truth of what happened.RoryOB94 wrote:The thing I don't understand is what do Liverpool fans think the report will show?
Guest- Guest
They have covered up lots, there was not enough medical facilities and they also had a cut off point for when people died, of like 3.15 when some people were actually still alive but died later. One person i remember eventually died later and all he would have needed to save his life was some oxygen, and how many more could have been saved with simple medical care if the had the medical facilities in place.RoryOB94 wrote:But they said it was bad policing so what could they be covering up?Alan wrote:It should show what was a cover up and tell the actually truth of what happened.RoryOB94 wrote:The thing I don't understand is what do Liverpool fans think the report will show?
The mother who lost her son and all he would have needed was oxygen.
My fight for JUSTICE has always been to try and get a new inquest into the death of Kevin, as you will be aware the coroner imposed a 3.15pm cut off point at the inquests the reason being that all the 95 at the time would have been dead or brain dead so nothing was heard after that time. I was told just before I went into Kevin's inquest that he had called for his "mum" when he was in the gym at 4.pm. the West Midland Police told me that this could not have happened, Kevin's injuries were to bad and what the police lady heard was body wind.
I was devastated when i heard what they told me about Kevin, he was the worst case of all the 95 ( poor Tony Bland was still ill at this time) I new something was wrong Kevin did not have certain markings that they had said so I started to look into it.
Over the years I have tracked down everybody that touched Kevin that dreadful day, I found the police lady an off duty policeman from Liverpool who found pules in Kevin at 3.37.pm the carriers who carried kevin across the pitch say he was alive, I then decided to have Kevin's injuries explained to me, I have spent hours discussing kevin's injuries with some of the highest Forensic Pathologist in the country, it turned out that Kevin's injuries were quite mild he was savable all he needed was oxygen, he did not die from Traumatic asphyxia and he would not have been dead or brain dead by 3.15pm.
This means Kevin does not relate to the 3.15pm cut off time, I know my son dies in the arms of the police lady at 4.pm that day and i have all the evidence to prove it, either in witness statements visual evidence and forensic reports the latest from Dr Nat Carey who carried out the autopsy's on Hollie and Jessica one of the highest pathologists in the country.
I then decided to take the system on, I want a new inquest on Kevin to put the records straight, I have been round the system three times submitting my memorial to the Attorney General asking for a new inquest into the death of Kevin under section 3 of the coroners act, I have always been refused even though the evidence has always been there.
I know the reason why I cannot get a new inquest into the death of my son Kevin, barristers have always told me that if Kevin gets his inquest it will open the gates for the other 95 because it will run to 4.pm when Kevin died and the truth would come out of what happened between the 3.15pm cut off point and 4pm that day when the police cordoned off 43 ambulances never implemented the major disaster plan, it was lack off care that the 96 died and they don't want that, also there would have to be an inquiry into that time when Hillsborough was at its worst, when the liverpool fans were left to help the dying and injured,which will open a big can of worms.
After going round the system three times every time submitting new evidence and still not being able to beat the system the Human right act came into force Section 2 relates to the evidence which i have on Kevin.
The Right To Life which means Kevin has not had his human right he died in the hands of the state and that means he is entitled to a fair trial to determan how he came to his death, with the 3.15pm cut off time at the inquest Kevin has not had a fare trial also so under section 2 I as Kevin's mum have a right to a full investigation into how my son died.
Article 2 of the European Convention of Human rights, the Human Rights Act 1998, their are 2 grounds which we are submitting evidence, ground one Insufficiency of inquiry and ground two discovery of new facts.
Because i am going through The European Convention of Human Right I have got to go through this country again, in November last year I submitted a new memorial to the Attorney general asking him again for a new inquest into the death of Kevin , in Feb this year he refused me so that means we will take the attorney general for a Judicial Review against his answer, the evidence is there under section 13 of the coroners act and section 2 of the Human Rights Act 1998. In Judicial Review it will be up to the judges to decide if Kevin can have a new inquest if they refuse then I can then lodge Kevin's case in Europe.
At the moment my solicitor has written back to the attorney General asking him to review the case again before we go for Judicial Review, When the Attorney General refused Kevin his inquest he never gave me a reason why just more sympathy, ( Which I do not need).
At Least a Judicial Review will bring a lot of the truth of what really happened at Hillsborough and to Kevin and the other 95 who died with him.
I hope this answers some of your questions? I have tried to write it as brief as possible and to put it in lay terms, I am still learning the legal terms myself, what i have learned is that the legal system in this country does not work.
A lot of the background of where i have been legally and all the new evidence which i have uncovered will be on the new web site which we are working on at the moment.
Kind Regards
Hope For Hillsborough
Anne Williams
Last edited by Alan on Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
Why have we got such scum on this forum? You don't agree with it, do one, nobody cares for your worthless opinion.
Guest- Guest
Why does every fucking thread start with some wannabe fucking smart ass making a shitty point and turns the thread into a warzone. If you don't think they should be open to the public then get out of this thread. Thats the same with everything.
Guest- Guest
Dan wrote:Why have we got such scum on this forum? You don't agree with it, do one, nobody cares for your worthless opinion.
This i totally agree Dan.
Barton-
- Formerly known as : JMB_94
Posts : 10066
Age : 30
Alan wrote:Dan wrote:Why have we got such scum on this forum? You don't agree with it, do one, nobody cares for your worthless opinion.
This i totally agree Dan.
If you don't care about their opinion then why are you responding to them?
Laurencio-
- Posts : 8730
Age : 36
Location : La Paz, Bolivia
Supports : Rosenborg, ManUtd
So.. how many signatures does it need for it to be "considered"?
Mal-
- Posts : 31043
Age : 34
Laurencio wrote:So.. how many signatures does it need for it to be "considered"?
100,000.
VivaRonaldoLAD-
- Posts : 14745
Location : United Road.
Supports : Giggsy 12-0 Gerrard
ViVaRooney wrote:meh
Laurencio-
- Posts : 8730
Age : 36
Location : La Paz, Bolivia
Supports : Rosenborg, ManUtd
Mal wrote:Laurencio wrote:So.. how many signatures does it need for it to be "considered"?
100,000.
At which point they can still reject the petition I take it?
Mal-
- Posts : 31043
Age : 34
Laurencio wrote:Mal wrote:Laurencio wrote:So.. how many signatures does it need for it to be "considered"?
100,000.
At which point they can still reject the petition I take it?
I assume so.
Guest- Guest
I dont and i should not have replied to certain people, but i was trying to explain to some others who were only asking a question.JMB_94 wrote:Alan wrote:Dan wrote:Why have we got such scum on this forum? You don't agree with it, do one, nobody cares for your worthless opinion.
This i totally agree Dan.
If you don't care about their opinion then why are you responding to them?
VivaRonaldoLAD-
- Posts : 14745
Location : United Road.
Supports : Giggsy 12-0 Gerrard
All I said that RR was making a good point, but yes he couldve just left the thread alone.
Guest- Guest
No, he didn't. He did his usual attention-seeking routine that he does in this thread.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
Dan wrote:No, he didn't. He did his usual attention-seeking routine that he does in this thread.
Read the analogy, then you'll understand.
Lux-
- Posts : 9892
Age : 32
Location : North West London
Supports : Watford FC
Laurencio wrote:Mal wrote:Laurencio wrote:So.. how many signatures does it need for it to be "considered"?
100,000.
At which point they can still reject the petition I take it?
I think the point is that they are forced to discuss it in parliament. It's already happened with one petition recently......
It won't force them to release anything though.....
El Jefe-
- Formerly known as : Jay
Posts : 10657
Location : In the hall, already, on the wall, already
Supports : Pixie Lott's Legs
Signed twice.
