Messi: Best Ever?

Fine Shagger wrote:

The-Reporter wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:

The-Reporter wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:

How would it be exactly the same? Ronaldo can't add anything close to what Messi adds to the build up play of Barca. He doesn't work as hard as Messi either which is the defining point of Pep's team - their work ethic on top of their talent.

A big part of why Barca are so successful is that when Messi plays he drops deep to form a triangle with Iniesta and Xavi. Can you imagine Ronaldo trying to play one touch passing moves with them two? He'd look like a clown.

You haven't got a clue. Ronaldo scores shit loads of goals for a team inferior to Barcelona. If he had Xavi, Iniesta and co around him he'd be even more lethal.

How about addressing my point about work ethic and build up play rather than just ignore them?

You're ignoring the team aspect here.

Im saying stick Ronaldo in that team and everyone would be like oh my god he is the best ever because he would be even more lethal than he is already. Your trying to say he would make Barcelona a lesser team despite him being one of the best players most of us has ever seen.

Of course he'd make Barca a lesser team, Messi is Barcelona's key player no matter what anyone says about Xavi or Iniesta.

How come Villa didn't become more lethal when he moved to Barca? Or Henry? Both sensational goalscorers yet didn't suddenly up their goalscoring records.

Henry and Villa both played out of position and past their peak.

The-Reporter wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:

The-Reporter wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:

The-Reporter wrote:
You haven't got a clue. Ronaldo scores shit loads of goals for a team inferior to Barcelona. If he had Xavi, Iniesta and co around him he'd be even more lethal.

How about addressing my point about work ethic and build up play rather than just ignore them?

You're ignoring the team aspect here.

Im saying stick Ronaldo in that team and everyone would be like oh my god he is the best ever because he would be even more lethal than he is already. Your trying to say he would make Barcelona a lesser team despite him being one of the best players most of us has ever seen.

Of course he'd make Barca a lesser team, Messi is Barcelona's key player no matter what anyone says about Xavi or Iniesta.

How come Villa didn't become more lethal when he moved to Barca? Or Henry? Both sensational goalscorers yet didn't suddenly up their goalscoring records.

Henry and Villa both played out of position and past their peak.

Henry past his peak sure, but Villa? Not a chance.

I'll give you the out of position argument, but I'm still sticking by the lesser team part. Barcelona would have to adjust for Ronaldo, if they adopted the same tactics they do now then your "He'd look more lethal" argument is just not true.

Fine Shagger wrote:How come Villa didn't become more lethal when he moved to Barca? Or Henry? Both sensational goalscorers yet didn't suddenly up their goalscoring records.

Henry had to deal with Eto'o being the main striker and Messi being the main person controlling the ball. For being a third option Henry still had numbers that would be a career year for just about ever striker on the planet.

In 2008/09 Henry played in 42 games, scored 26 goals and had 13 assists. In comparison, David Villa has played in 42 games this season scored 22 goals and has 9 assists and that is as option number 2 to Messi. That being said, Henry as a 3rd option was better than Villa has been as being the 2nd option on Barcelona's team. Henry's goal scoring didn't increase or decrease when he went to Barcelona. Excluding his final year at Barcelona he actually increased his scoring over the two years despite being played out of position and hurt in the first season and playing out of position and hurt some time in the 2nd season.

Overall it was a successful stint up until he was freed from his contract.

Barcelona with Cristiano Ronaldo would have to change their approach completely and would be a lesser team than they are now.

That doesn't make Henry more lethal than when he was at Arsenal. At Arsenal he was arguably the best in the world at one point, but at Barca he wasn't even their best forward. He was still great at Barca, but it was not the best spell of his career.

Barcelona are definitely a system team, not every player can fit. But I think Ronaldo could, would it be perfect? Probably not, but are you telling me if Messi didn't exist and Barcelona bought Ronaldo from United that he wouldnt rake up 35-40 goals a year? Can't believe that.

Havent seen the whole thread, but have no idea how this conversation was brought up anyway, totally unrelated to the thread title.

SBSP wrote:That doesn't make Henry more lethal than when he was at Arsenal. At Arsenal he was arguably the best in the world at one point, but at Barca he wasn't even their best forward. He was still great at Barca, but it was not the best spell of his career.

Never said anything about him being more lethal than while he was at Arsenal did I? No. I said that at Barcelona as a third option he has was better than Villa has been as their second option while also playing striker where Eto'o played when Henry was there. At Barcelona he was their 2nd best forward behind Messi and you can't really mention him in the striker category because Pep refused to use him as a striker. Had he played striker I have no doubt in my mind that he would have scored as many goals or more than Eto'o did. Considering that he played his entire first season hurt and still managed to hit double digit goals (19) and assists (13) while playing in a position he hadn't played in 10 years.

I wasn't really contributing anything to their argument I was simply pointing out that Henry's effectiveness was still great while being the third option at Barcelona.

dena wrote:Barcelona are definitely a system team, not every player can fit. But I think Ronaldo could, would it be perfect? Probably not, but are you telling me if Messi didn't exist and Barcelona bought Ronaldo from United that he wouldnt rake up 35-40 goals a year? Can't believe that.

He probably would, but that would depend on who was pulling the strings. Messi is basically the end all, be all of their attack. He controls the ball he takes the shots, he dictates play. Those are things that Ronaldo is not capable of doing and has never had to do. Messi is a play maker, Cristiano is not. If they had someone creating then he could score 30+ probably, but that depends on many other factors.

dena wrote:Barcelona are definitely a system team, not every player can fit. But I think Ronaldo could, would it be perfect? Probably not, but are you telling me if Messi didn't exist and Barcelona bought Ronaldo from United that he wouldnt rake up 35-40 goals a year? Can't believe that.

Havent seen the whole thread, but have no idea how this conversation was brought up anyway, totally unrelated to the thread title.

Exactly!

AriseForLife wrote:Never said anything about him being more lethal than while he was at Arsenal did I? No.
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I wasn't really contributing anything to their argument I was simply pointing out that Henry's effectiveness was still great while being the third option at Barcelona.

What was the point in quoting him then if it had nothing to do with what he said? I'm not trying to start an argument; I'm just wondering what that has to do with anything.

He wouldn't fit into their team.... thats why Barcelona wanted to buy him before Real Madrid....

Exactly.

http://www.totalfootballmadness.com/2009/06/29/xavi-does-not-want-ronaldo-in-fc-barcelona/

No.

Win something for Argentina...even Copa America. :facepalm:

And to one who says Messi poor games in Argentina is a myth needs to watch the copa america this july to see how messi is dominated when by South America nations.....but Messi is not far from maradona/pele status.

ahlycotc wrote:Messi has always been better than Ronaldo. Just couldn't show it because of long injuries.

Fine Shagger wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Messi has always been better than Ronaldo. Just couldn't show it because of long injuries.

I've maintained this stance for years, agreed.

Well if he didn't prove it then Ronaldo was the better player 07/08.

Messi is the best ever imo.

Spider wrote:

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:

Spider wrote:But he's better than Messi. So Messi can't be better than them either.

You're funny.

I don't think facts are meant to be funny...

What facts are that. And You're a smart arse and no one like's a smart arse.

Spider wrote:Messi is to Ronaldo what the Scottish League is to the Premier League.

Inferior.

Dont chat a load of absolute pish. People can have an opinion who is better but dont try and make out Ronaldo is by far superior to Messi, that's not just you being biased cause he played for Manchester.United its complete and utter bullshit.

Real Madrid 0-2 Barcelona (Messi) from WayneRooneyComps on Vimeo.

The commentating had to be better than that.

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:

Spider wrote:

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:

Spider wrote:But he's better than Messi. So Messi can't be better than them either.

You're funny.

I don't think facts are meant to be funny...

What facts are that. And You're a smart arse and no one like's a smart arse.

That would be "What facts are they?"

Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi - Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson talks up player ahead of Real Madrid's clash with Barcelona

Real Madrid boss Mourinho: Ronaldo better than Messi

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:

Spider wrote:Messi is to Ronaldo what the Scottish League is to the Premier League.

Inferior.

Dont chat a load of absolute pish. People can have an opinion who is better but dont try and make out Ronaldo is by far superior to Messi, that's not just you being biased cause he played for Manchester.United its complete and utter bullshit.

I don't make out anything. Ronaldo is a better individual than Messi.
Messi is in a superior team, and having a world cup winning midfield, easily the best CM partnership in the world, behind him, launching passes to him makes him able to score more.

Spider wrote:I don't make out anything. Ronaldo is a better individual than Messi.
Messi is in a superior team, and having a world cup winning midfield, easily the best CM partnership in the world, behind him, launching passes to him makes him able to score more.

Aye, Messi wouldn't have been able to score that second goal last night without Xavi's amazing pass.

Spider wrote:

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:

Spider wrote:

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:

Spider wrote:But he's better than Messi. So Messi can't be better than them either.

You're funny.

I don't think facts are meant to be funny...

What facts are that. And You're a smart arse and no one like's a smart arse.

That would be "What facts are they?" Ha i new you keep doing this and would point out the mistooks how sad you are.

Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi - Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson talks up player ahead of Real Madrid's clash with Barcelona

Real Madrid boss Mourinho: Ronaldo better than Messi

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:

Spider wrote:Messi is to Ronaldo what the Scottish League is to the Premier League.

Inferior.

Dont chat a load of absolute pish. People can have an opinion who is better but dont try and make out Ronaldo is by far superior to Messi, that's not just you being biased cause he played for Manchester.United its complete and utter bullshit.

I don't make out anything. Ronaldo is a better individual than Messi.
Messi is in a superior team, and having a world cup winning midfield, easily the best CM partnership in the world, behind him, launching passes to him makes him able to score more.

Ronaldo is a better individual, they have different attributes but does Ronaldo do the things that messi does like dribble past lots of players and score great goals like he did last night, well not as often as Messi does. Yes Ronaldo is a top class player but i think your idea's on football are crazy if you think Ronaldo is a better Individual.

Now im waiting for the smert erse to correct all my mistooks.

He probably would, but that would depend on who was pulling the strings. Messi is basically the end all, be all of their attack. He controls the ball he takes the shots, he dictates play. Those are things that Ronaldo is not capable of doing and has never had to do. Messi is a play maker, Cristiano is not. If they had someone creating then he could score 30+ probably, but that depends on many other factors.

I'm not going to go into a playmaker discussion with you because your defintion of it is weird, but Barcelona has Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, and Villa. Definately equal, and probably better than Alonso, Ozil, di Maria, Benzema/Higuain. And Ronaldo is doing his thing with the latter group getting him the ball, so.... yeah he'd work out.

That's what happens when Ronaldo is told to press

Fine Shagger wrote:

That's what happens when Ronaldo is told to press

Mourinho and Ronaldo isn't a match imo.

chiboygeorge wrote:No.

Win something for Argentina...even Copa America.

And to one who says Messi poor games in Argentina is a myth needs to watch the copa america this july to see how messi is dominated when by South America nations.....but Messi is not far from maradona/pele status.

I will remember to bring this up when Messi scores against Brazil in the final. Just like he made your defenders look like fools in the friendly.

Fine Shagger wrote:

That's what happens when Ronaldo is told to press

more like when he's the only one to do so...

Fine Shagger wrote:

That's what happens when Ronaldo is told to press

Roles reversed, and that was Messi on his own in a triangle chasing shadows you'd applaud him.

Fine Shagger wrote:

That's what happens when Ronaldo is told to press

Not if he stopped and took a strop Spider.

TBH I'd have thrown a strop too

That was because his teammates are as lazy as me.

Ronaldo is Real Madrid's laziest player. Even king of the stroll Adebayor works harder.

Edit: Benzema is maybe lazier actually, but that's all.