Israel and Palestine at it again

Rockets fired from Gaza, Israel responds by air strikes. Later we will see a cease fire. Rinse and repeat.

What do you think should happen to put an end to this conflict once and for all?

If they each had more allies, it would all get chaotic. It's like there's no solution

Had a debate about this last Thursday in class, as usual the class was split. I don't know how to resolve the conflict, but I do believe with Israel's incredible backing, that it's only a matter of time until they wipe out the Palestinians until they are no longer able to have an impact. What are your thoughts on this theory ahly? Feasible?

send in bruno

The only longterm "Solution" is for the Palestinians to be moved to Syria and Jordan or wherever.

Since that won't happen while the rest of the world is filled with angry Muslims and western influenced media, I predict that both countries longterm are horribly screwed because the Palestinians will continue making babies which means further ecological destruction, which means Israel get's horribly screwed anyway even if they use their military presence to keep the chaos from spreading to their lands.

The best thing that can be done from an Israeli perspective is perhaps attempt to weather out the storm, use technology to try to fix their ecology(would be impossible, but hopefully(I'm speaking hopefully for the whole world here) the need of survival pushes the Israeli's to make technological advancements in small scale terraforming), let the Palestinian population collapse naturally, and then invade palestine, rid of any remaining taliban, and use their wealth to integrate the territories East Germany style.

The western world should tell Israel to give some territory back to the Palestine. They've been taking it away for years, the Palestine have every right to be pissed over that:



The Palestine should stop attacking civilians.

Are you trying to say the Israelis are the only ones suffering here Polska?

SBSP wrote:Are you trying to say the Israelis are the only ones suffering here Polska?

Of course not, but they are the only ones that can be helped at this point.

Palestine is a lost cause, like most of Africa. Any 'aid' we send them will only make the situation worse.

The problem with Palestine, is that unlike most of Africa, it can't be ignored as we please, as their situation spreads onto their developed neighbors.

I haven't got a fucking clue what goes on around there

stupid Palestines, they were attacking civilians once again, they're clearly to blame for recent unrests. Was quite for some time, then they had to bomb a bus again
Israel responding with rockets

Hope it's not getting worse without Mubarak

So here is my take. This time the Palestinians started firing rockets and the Israeli's responded. Although the retaliation was worse than the initial action. Even Israel is saying "we are responding with greater force". However, I don't put total blame on Palestine for firing those rockets in the first place. It was a retaliation to the continuing illegal settlement construction. Israel is digging it's own grave. The whole world (minus USA) is claiming those Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory as illegal. Those settlements are not only causing further violence but destroying any chance of peaceful talks between both sides. Israel is too thick in the head to get that. They aren't even interested in attempting to calm things down. Obama's administration has tried several times to convince Israel to stop building, but Israel just gave them a big "Fuck You!" again.

To solve this greater conflict once and for all, both nations must have borders and full control of their own territories. The whole world needs to recognize both nations. That way both countries are fully responsible for their actions. If Palestine decides to fire rockets, it's the responsibility of the Palestinian government and Israel has every right to take it as an act of war. If Israel starts shit, they should be held accountable.

Now that these revolutions are happening across the Middle East, the Arab nations won't sit around and watch anymore. The leaders won't be puppets of the US and Israel. This is good, because it makes Israel think twice about its actions from now on (or at least when these countries have a representative government).

In an ideal world, I would just say have Israel and Palestine join to become one country. Everyone becomes a citizen of that country and elections are held. Obviously, Israel will never agree to such a thing.

dena wrote:Had a debate about this last Thursday in class, as usual the class was split. I don't know how to resolve the conflict, but I do believe with Israel's incredible backing, that it's only a matter of time until they wipe out the Palestinians until they are no longer able to have an impact. What are your thoughts on this theory ahly? Feasible?

No.

polska. wrote:The only longterm "Solution" is for the Palestinians to be moved to Syria and Jordan or wherever.

Since that won't happen while the rest of the world is filled with angry Muslims and western influenced media, I predict that both countries longterm are horribly screwed because the Palestinians will continue making babies which means further ecological destruction, which means Israel get's horribly screwed anyway even if they use their military presence to keep the chaos from spreading to their lands.

The best thing that can be done from an Israeli perspective is perhaps attempt to weather out the storm, use technology to try to fix their ecology(would be impossible, but hopefully(I'm speaking hopefully for the whole world here) the need of survival pushes the Israeli's to make technological advancements in small scale terraforming), let the Palestinian population collapse naturally, and then invade palestine, rid of any remaining taliban, and use their wealth to integrate the territories East Germany style.

Gegilworld93 wrote:stupid Palestines, they were attacking civilians once again, they're clearly to blame for recent unrests. Was quite for some time, then they had to bomb a bus again
Israel responding with rockets

Hope it's not getting worse without Mubarak

Mubarak was in charge of Egypt.

Just realized I mixed up Taliban and Hamas.

Gegilworld93 wrote:stupid Palestines, they were attacking civilians once again, they're clearly to blame for recent unrests. Was quite for some time, then they had to bomb a bus again
Israel responding with rockets

Hope it's not getting worse without Mubarak

That's not the full story. Israel has been building illegal settlements recently on Palestinian territory and Palestinians have every right to be pissed. I don't agree with the method of retaliation (bombing a bus), but you have to understand what they are going through.

It depends on what you mean by worse. Without Mubarak, the future Egyptian government should represent the people. The majority of Egyptians aren't going to put up with Israel's shit like that. Which means Israel will have to stop their abuse without consideration for consequences. Now I highly doubt Egypt would want to get into another war with Israel, but I can easily see an Arab embargo on Israel which would hurt Israel's economy. Under Mubarak, Israel would get below-market gas prices. This kind of shit won't go on anymore. If you want gas from us, you must pay at least market price, if not higher. We could also threaten to loosen the border between Egypt and Gaza.

I say we keep the US out of this.

Didn't the Israeli government approve a plan to raze Palestinian civilian homes to build something? Bunch of cunts.

So here is my take. This time the Palestinians started firing rockets and the Israeli's responded. Although the retaliation was worse than the initial action. Even Israel is saying "we are responding with greater force". However, I don't put total blame on Palestine for firing those rockets in the first place. It was a retaliation to the continuing illegal settlement construction. Israel is digging it's own grave. The whole world (minus USA) is claiming those Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory as illegal. Those settlements are not only causing further violence but destroying any chance of peaceful talks between both sides. Israel is too thick in the head to get that. They aren't even interested in attempting to calm things down. Obama's administration has tried several times to convince Israel to stop building, but Israel just gave them a big "Fuck You!" again.

To solve this greater conflict once and for all, both nations must have borders and full control of their own territories. The whole world needs to recognize both nations. That way both countries are fully responsible for their actions. If Palestine decides to fire rockets, it's the responsibility of the Palestinian government and Israel has every right to take it as an act of war. If Israel starts shit, they should be held accountable.

Now that these revolutions are happening across the Middle East, the Arab nations won't sit around and watch anymore. The leaders won't be puppets of the US and Israel. This is good, because it makes Israel think twice about its actions from now on (or at least when these countries have a representative government).

In an ideal world, I would just say have Israel and Palestine join to become one country. Everyone becomes a citizen of that country and elections are held. Obviously, Israel will never agree to such a thing.

Bold is key. They know that it's not in their best long term interest to have Palestine as an independent nation.

Also how is that in any way a good thing? It would just mean another pointless war like the Six-Day could repeat itself. What do you hope to accomplish by threatening Israel?

polska. wrote:

So here is my take. This time the Palestinians started firing rockets and the Israeli's responded. Although the retaliation was worse than the initial action. Even Israel is saying "we are responding with greater force". However, I don't put total blame on Palestine for firing those rockets in the first place. It was a retaliation to the continuing illegal settlement construction. Israel is digging it's own grave. The whole world (minus USA) is claiming those Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory as illegal. Those settlements are not only causing further violence but destroying any chance of peaceful talks between both sides. Israel is too thick in the head to get that. They aren't even interested in attempting to calm things down. Obama's administration has tried several times to convince Israel to stop building, but Israel just gave them a big "Fuck You!" again.

To solve this greater conflict once and for all, both nations must have borders and full control of their own territories. The whole world needs to recognize both nations. That way both countries are fully responsible for their actions. If Palestine decides to fire rockets, it's the responsibility of the Palestinian government and Israel has every right to take it as an act of war. If Israel starts shit, they should be held accountable.

Now that these revolutions are happening across the Middle East, the Arab nations won't sit around and watch anymore. The leaders won't be puppets of the US and Israel. This is good, because it makes Israel think twice about its actions from now on (or at least when these countries have a representative government).

In an ideal world, I would just say have Israel and Palestine join to become one country. Everyone becomes a citizen of that country and elections are held. Obviously, Israel will never agree to such a thing.

Bold is key. They know that it's not in their best long term interest to have Palestine as an independent nation.

Also how is that in any way a good thing? It would just mean another pointless war like the Six-Day could repeat itself. What do you hope to accomplish by threatening Israel?

So you think it's better to have militants who fire rockets at you and you can't deal with them or stop them? If Israel know any better, they would speed up the process of forming an independent Palestine. First of all, it would decrease the violence toward Israel significantly. Second, if any violence continues, Israel can deal with it better without looking like dicks.

How is it a good thing? Because I don't want my country giving below-market gas to a country that doesn't do anything in return. If you want gas from me, you are going to make at least market price like everyone else. To be honest, I wouldn't give them any oil because we aren't anywhere near friends. If Israel want's to continue trade with us, they will have to compromise, which leads to a peaceful solution. If they want to fight us over a boycott, then fuck them. We will fight to the death.

SBSP wrote:

Gegilworld93 wrote:stupid Palestines, they were attacking civilians once again, they're clearly to blame for recent unrests. Was quite for some time, then they had to bomb a bus again
Israel responding with rockets

Hope it's not getting worse without Mubarak

Mubarak was in charge of Egypt.

fail comment, inform yourself about the whole thing if you want to contribute , the peace treaty of Egypt and Israel is stabilizing the whole Middle East and Mubarak was an Israel friend as far as I know.
Now that Mubarak isn't in charge of Egypt anymore, the "new" Egypt might not be as Israel friendly as the Mubarak governemet was.
Read what ahly replied to my comment, don't just talk nonsense if you obviously don't know the backgrounds of the subject.

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:

So here is my take. This time the Palestinians started firing rockets and the Israeli's responded. Although the retaliation was worse than the initial action. Even Israel is saying "we are responding with greater force". However, I don't put total blame on Palestine for firing those rockets in the first place. It was a retaliation to the continuing illegal settlement construction. Israel is digging it's own grave. The whole world (minus USA) is claiming those Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory as illegal. Those settlements are not only causing further violence but destroying any chance of peaceful talks between both sides. Israel is too thick in the head to get that. They aren't even interested in attempting to calm things down. Obama's administration has tried several times to convince Israel to stop building, but Israel just gave them a big "Fuck You!" again.

To solve this greater conflict once and for all, both nations must have borders and full control of their own territories. The whole world needs to recognize both nations. That way both countries are fully responsible for their actions. If Palestine decides to fire rockets, it's the responsibility of the Palestinian government and Israel has every right to take it as an act of war. If Israel starts shit, they should be held accountable.

Now that these revolutions are happening across the Middle East, the Arab nations won't sit around and watch anymore. The leaders won't be puppets of the US and Israel. This is good, because it makes Israel think twice about its actions from now on (or at least when these countries have a representative government).

In an ideal world, I would just say have Israel and Palestine join to become one country. Everyone becomes a citizen of that country and elections are held. Obviously, Israel will never agree to such a thing.

Bold is key. They know that it's not in their best long term interest to have Palestine as an independent nation.

Also how is that in any way a good thing? It would just mean another pointless war like the Six-Day could repeat itself. What do you hope to accomplish by threatening Israel?

So you think it's better to have militants who fire rockets at you and you can't deal with them or stop them? If Israel know any better, they would speed up the process of forming an independent Palestine. First of all, it would decrease the violence toward Israel significantly. Second, if any violence continues, Israel can deal with it better without looking like dicks.

How is it a good thing? Because I don't want my country giving below-market gas to a country that doesn't do anything in return. If you want gas from me, you are going to make at least market price like everyone else. To be honest, I wouldn't give them any oil because we aren't anywhere near friends. If Israel want's to continue trade with us, they will have to compromise, which leads to a peaceful solution. If they want to fight us over a boycott, then fuck them. We will fight to the death.

Looking at the OP, it's very obvious Israel can deal with them. I don't see how it would decrease the violence either, if anything, if the Palestinians were independent and were allowed to buy weapons from Syria etc. it would just make the situation worse. If Israel retaliates against an independent nation, they are giving a casus balli to Iran, Jordan, Egypt and others.

Also that is not what I was on about. I'm not talking about the trade of gas or anything, I'm on about what would be gained from backing Israel into a corner?

Doing air strikes and killing mostly civilians, isn't dealing with them. It only angers people even more. How will Palestine being an independent nation decrease violence? Simple really...

1) Palestinians can move around freely within their own territories. They don't have to go through several checkpoints and take an hour to go to a place that is 15 minutes away. Thus, Palestinians will feel less irritated by Israelis.

2) Palestine can take care of itself with trade and start to build an economy. They can feed their own people and ship in medicine. No more Israel restricting trade of food and medicine in Palestine. People can start having jobs and provide for their families.

I didn't say we had to put Israel in a corner. We just cut ties off with them. It's logical really. Israel does not give us anything in return for the favors Egypt have done for them over the past years. Negotiation without compromise, is not real negotiation. By putting Israel in a tough situation, they will have to compromise with Palestine and find a stable and long term solution which is of benefit for everyone.

Stop launching rockets at civilians and the Israelis wont have anything to respond to....

Stop breaking into Jewish homes in Israel and slitting the throats of the whole family, including kids under 10, and videotaping it and celebrating it.

Dirty scumbags.

Mustangt125 wrote:Stop launching rockets at civilians and the Israelis wont have anything to respond to....

Stop breaking into Jewish homes in Israel and slitting the throats of the whole family, including kids under 10, and videotaping it and celebrating it.

Dirty scumbags.

this

What sort of home is this for Palestines anyway?

It's a shitty one, there should just be a joint effort where the Palestinians agree to move to neighbouring countries, and Israel/whoever else help fund it.

Israel have nowhere else to go....they can't be moved. The Palestinians would probably be welcomed into the neighbouring countries if they were given the right incentives......

In terms of the fighting....Israel are in a pretty crazy area and when the Palestinians are just firing rockets then you can't be surprised to see Israel retaliate, they can't just sit there and do nothing, even if they wanted to.

Jewish people moved to Israel to avoid trouble, I don't see why the Palestinians can't return the favour. The more land they ask for, the less happy Israel are going to get. The slate needs to be wiped clean.....this is Israel's land now, we're not in the 1930's.

Mustangt125 wrote:Stop launching rockets at civilians and the Israelis wont have anything to respond to....

Stop breaking into Jewish homes in Israel and slitting the throats of the whole family, including kids under 10, and videotaping it and celebrating it.

Dirty scumbags.

You have to keep in mind, the Palestinians did this because Israel kept on building illegal settlements. Both parties are guilty for the violence. It's stupid to start putting blame on people right now. We aren't going to move forward unless a lasting solution is put in place.

Lux wrote:What sort of home is this for Palestines anyway?

It's a shitty one, there should just be a joint effort where the Palestinians agree to move to neighbouring countries, and Israel/whoever else help fund it.

Israel have nowhere else to go....they can't be moved. The Palestinians would probably be welcomed into the neighbouring countries if they were given the right incentives......

In terms of the fighting....Israel are in a pretty crazy area and when the Palestinians are just firing rockets then you can't be surprised to see Israel retaliate, they can't just sit there and do nothing, even if they wanted to.

Jewish people moved to Israel to avoid trouble, I don't see why the Palestinians can't return the favour. The more land they ask for, the less happy Israel are going to get. The slate needs to be wiped clean.....this is Israel's land now, we're not in the 1930's.

Why should Palestinians have to move? The same questions could be asked to Israel...

- What kind of home is Israel living in with all this violence and surrounded by people who hate them?
- There should just be a joint effort where the Israelis agree to move to Europe or USA and the Arabs help fund it.

See you can't just tell people to leave their homes and move.

ahlycotc wrote:Why should Palestinians have to move? The same questions could be asked to Israel...

- What kind of home is Israel living in with all this violence and surrounded by people who hate them?
- There should just be a joint effort where the Israelis agree to move to Europe or USA and the Arabs help fund it.

See you can't just tell people to leave their homes and move.

Europe or the USA isn't their home though, it's a completely different land, culture etc.

What's the difference between a home in Syria/Jordan/Saudi Arabia etc and a home in Palestine? Nothing, except there's no Israeli's, no rockets (well, once the government shit is sorted...), and you don't live in shitty living standards without freedom. Generally speaking, there's nothing to stop the Palestines integrating into the neighbouring countries.


Like I said, I'm pretty sure Jews moved from the neighbouring countries to Israel...and if they didn't they probably would've been killed or forced to. There's no real value in what the Palestines want except for stubbornness.

Lux wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Why should Palestinians have to move? The same questions could be asked to Israel...

- What kind of home is Israel living in with all this violence and surrounded by people who hate them?
- There should just be a joint effort where the Israelis agree to move to Europe or USA and the Arabs help fund it.

See you can't just tell people to leave their homes and move.

Europe or the USA isn't their home though, it's a completely different land, culture etc.

What's the difference between a home in Syria/Jordan/Saudi Arabia etc and a home in Palestine? Nothing, except there's no Israeli's, no rockets (well, once the government shit is sorted...), and you don't live in shitty living standards without freedom. Generally speaking, there's nothing to stop the Palestines integrating into the neighbouring countries.


Like I said, I'm pretty sure Jews moved from the neighbouring countries to Israel...and if they didn't they probably would've been killed or forced to. There's no real value in what the Palestines want except for stubbornness.

You have a major misunderstanding of Arab/Muslim culture in the region. There is a difference between Palestine and Jordan or Syria. Jerusalem is an important city for us. Palestinians who just move to Jordan or Syria won't feel at home the same way Israelis won't feel at home in Europe or USA (Although Jews have been living all over the world for thousands of years). It ridiculous to expect either Palestinians or Jews to just leave their homes and go live in another country. The only plausible solution is to have a two state solution in the area.

Mustangt125 wrote:Stop launching rockets at civilians and the Israelis wont have anything to respond to....

Stop breaking into Jewish homes in Israel and slitting the throats of the whole family, including kids under 10, and videotaping it and celebrating it.

Dirty scumbags.

I'm sure you're alright with American troops killing Afghan civilians and posing with the bodies. Totally irrelevant, I know, but this is a pot, kettle, black moment.

ahlycotc wrote:Doing air strikes and killing mostly civilians, isn't dealing with them. It only angers people even more. How will Palestine being an independent nation decrease violence? Simple really...

1) Palestinians can move around freely within their own territories. They don't have to go through several checkpoints and take an hour to go to a place that is 15 minutes away. Thus, Palestinians will feel less irritated by Israelis.

2) Palestine can take care of itself with trade and start to build an economy. They can feed their own people and ship in medicine. No more Israel restricting trade of food and medicine in Palestine. People can start having jobs and provide for their families.

I didn't say we had to put Israel in a corner. We just cut ties off with them. It's logical really. Israel does not give us anything in return for the favors Egypt have done for them over the past years. Negotiation without compromise, is not real negotiation. By putting Israel in a tough situation, they will have to compromise with Palestine and find a stable and long term solution which is of benefit for everyone.

Civilians aren't the ones shooting rockets into Israel, extremists are. Yes angering civilians just brings more to the cause, but there still is a population which wishes to eradicate all Jews from the holy land. These extremists are not going to stop with Palestine becoming an independent nation. Hell there is no guarantee Hamas will stop either. Israel gains nothing from an independent Palestine.

Also, what long term solution? I have yet to hear anyone from both sides of the conflict come up with any long term situation, because quite simply, there is none at this point, atleast none that will benefit Israel in any way.