Should standing areas return to our top football grounds?

James wrote:Yes.

I know Hillsborough happened, but not soley because of not having seating. If rumours are to be believed, it was bad policing + people travelling without tickets that caused it.

James ♠ wrote:Yes.

I know Hillsborough happened, but not soley because of not having seating. If rumours are to be believed, it was bad policing + people travelling without tickets that caused it.

It has been proven in Germany that standing CAN be made safe. And as you have said, people stand at football all the time away from home anyway. I don't remember any disasters happening recently in away ends where people have been stood.


Hillsborough was a disaster, yes. Seating was brought in at the right time then, but now we would be able to go safely back to standing. They wouldn't remove seating totally, so there is no reason to not support this.

Japan had a disaster, I don't think people will leave Japan forever though. They may leave now, but they will return home in the future.

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:Yes.

I know Hillsborough happened, but not soley because of not having seating. If rumours are to be believed, it was bad policing + people travelling without tickets that caused it.

It has been proven in Germany that standing CAN be made safe. And as you have said, people stand at football all the time away from home anyway. I don't remember any disasters happening recently in away ends where people have been stood.


Hillsborough was a disaster, yes. Seating was brought in at the right time then, but now we would be able to go safely back to standing. They wouldn't remove seating totally, so there is no reason to not support this.

Japan had a disaster, I don't think people will leave Japan forever though. They may leave now, but they will return home in the future.

That was it completely. Nothing to do with these 'fans without tickets'.

All it takes is for it to happen again, just once. Seating is safe and that's the way it should be now. Stadiums nowadays aren't designed for standing anyway. And the theory that standing will be cheaper is a myth as well. The teams will have to completely re-design the stadium and to get the costs back, they'll charge as much as they possibly can. The more people that want to stand, the more the price will be.

Dan wrote:You are a disgusting person.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:Yes.

I know Hillsborough happened, but not soley because of not having seating. If rumours are to be believed, it was bad policing + people travelling without tickets that caused it.

It has been proven in Germany that standing CAN be made safe. And as you have said, people stand at football all the time away from home anyway. I don't remember any disasters happening recently in away ends where people have been stood.


Hillsborough was a disaster, yes. Seating was brought in at the right time then, but now we would be able to go safely back to standing. They wouldn't remove seating totally, so there is no reason to not support this.

Japan had a disaster, I don't think people will leave Japan forever though. They may leave now, but they will return home in the future.

That was it completely. Nothing to do with these 'fans without tickets'.

All it takes is for it to happen again, just once. Seating is safe and that's the way it should be now. Stadiums nowadays aren't designed for standing anyway. And the theory that standing will be cheaper is a myth as well. The teams will have to completely re-design the stadium and to get the costs back, they'll charge as much as they possibly can. The more people that want to stand, the more the price will be.

Tell me what is so unsafe about the Germany model? What massive costs would there be to redesigning the stadia - all you would need to do it erect metal barriers in front of each row of the standing areas, and maybe replace the seats.

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:Yes.

I know Hillsborough happened, but not soley because of not having seating. If rumours are to be believed, it was bad policing + people travelling without tickets that caused it.

It has been proven in Germany that standing CAN be made safe. And as you have said, people stand at football all the time away from home anyway. I don't remember any disasters happening recently in away ends where people have been stood.


Hillsborough was a disaster, yes. Seating was brought in at the right time then, but now we would be able to go safely back to standing. They wouldn't remove seating totally, so there is no reason to not support this.

Japan had a disaster, I don't think people will leave Japan forever though. They may leave now, but they will return home in the future.

That was it completely. Nothing to do with these 'fans without tickets'.

All it takes is for it to happen again, just once. Seating is safe and that's the way it should be now. Stadiums nowadays aren't designed for standing anyway. And the theory that standing will be cheaper is a myth as well. The teams will have to completely re-design the stadium and to get the costs back, they'll charge as much as they possibly can. The more people that want to stand, the more the price will be.

Dan wrote:
Don't care about it. I don't think standing should return, regardless of how it is done. That's my opinion.

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:Yes.

I know Hillsborough happened, but not soley because of not having seating. If rumours are to be believed, it was bad policing + people travelling without tickets that caused it.

It has been proven in Germany that standing CAN be made safe. And as you have said, people stand at football all the time away from home anyway. I don't remember any disasters happening recently in away ends where people have been stood.


Hillsborough was a disaster, yes. Seating was brought in at the right time then, but now we would be able to go safely back to standing. They wouldn't remove seating totally, so there is no reason to not support this.

Japan had a disaster, I don't think people will leave Japan forever though. They may leave now, but they will return home in the future.

That was it completely. Nothing to do with these 'fans without tickets'.

All it takes is for it to happen again, just once. Seating is safe and that's the way it should be now. Stadiums nowadays aren't designed for standing anyway. And the theory that standing will be cheaper is a myth as well. The teams will have to completely re-design the stadium and to get the costs back, they'll charge as much as they possibly can. The more people that want to stand, the more the price will be.

There was fans that travelled without tickets, so that was a problem also. If there was no extra fans there would of been no problem.

I'm pretty sure alot of us would pay current prices if we had an area that we where allowed to stand in, even if the seats still existed.

You can't use the excuse "All it takes is it to happen again" People already stand at away games constantly. There has been no accidents. Look at Germany, theres is working perfectly and I don't hear of people dying over there.

If anything, alcohol is the problem. Pubs around the stadium should be shut on matchdays, and no alcohol should be sold in stadiums. That would cut down alot of the pissheads and avoid accidents, sure you'd get people bringing stuff from home but alot wouldn't even bother.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:The German model is an example to follow. They have barriers where there are seats, and even seats there for people who get tired and want to sit down (although they won't have much chance of watching the match unless they're surrounded by dwarves).



Even Liverpool fans couldn't cause a massacre in a stadium like that. You could have fairly safe standing areas in modern all seater stadia quite easily at the moment, with no alterations, just designate a particular area as one where people are allowed to stand, it is difficult for a crowd to surge when there are seats in front of them. A return to the days where it's just as many people as can fit in, with no barriers other than the ones at the front, would be a disaster waiting to happen though.

Dan wrote:The issue was ineffective policing. There may have been people without tickets, but no more than there were for any other game. There was not enough to cause such an issue. It's been proven in the Taylor Report if you care to actually take a look.

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:Yes.

I know Hillsborough happened, but not soley because of not having seating. If rumours are to be believed, it was bad policing + people travelling without tickets that caused it.

It has been proven in Germany that standing CAN be made safe. And as you have said, people stand at football all the time away from home anyway. I don't remember any disasters happening recently in away ends where people have been stood.


Hillsborough was a disaster, yes. Seating was brought in at the right time then, but now we would be able to go safely back to standing. They wouldn't remove seating totally, so there is no reason to not support this.

Japan had a disaster, I don't think people will leave Japan forever though. They may leave now, but they will return home in the future.

That was it completely. Nothing to do with these 'fans without tickets'.

All it takes is for it to happen again, just once. Seating is safe and that's the way it should be now. Stadiums nowadays aren't designed for standing anyway. And the theory that standing will be cheaper is a myth as well. The teams will have to completely re-design the stadium and to get the costs back, they'll charge as much as they possibly can. The more people that want to stand, the more the price will be.

There was fans that travelled without tickets, so that was a problem also. If there was no extra fans there would of been no problem.

I'm pretty sure alot of us would pay current prices if we had an area that we where allowed to stand in, even if the seats still existed.

You can't use the excuse "All it takes is it to happen again" People already stand at away games constantly. There has been no accidents. Look at Germany, theres is working perfectly and I don't hear of people dying over there.

If anything, alcohol is the problem. Pubs around the stadium should be shut on matchdays, and no alcohol should be sold in stadiums. That would cut down alot of the pissheads and avoid accidents, sure you'd get people bringing stuff from home but alot wouldn't even bother.

The issue was ineffective policing. There may have been people without tickets, but no more than there were for any other game. There was not enough to cause such an issue. It's been proven in the Taylor Report if you care to actually take a look.

Dan wrote:
The issue was ineffective policing. There may have been people without tickets, but no more than there were for any other game. There was not enough to cause such an issue. It's been proven in the Taylor Report if you care to actually take a look.

Lux wrote:

Dan wrote:The issue was ineffective policing. There may have been people without tickets, but no more than there were for any other game. There was not enough to cause such an issue. It's been proven in the Taylor Report if you care to actually take a look.

1 question. If in the 80's there was bad policing for a game and Liverpool away fans got charged by all the home fans and lots of people were seriously injured/killed would you then say that there shouldn't be any away fans at any games ever again because it could happen again, whatever measures are taken.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Dan wrote:
The issue was ineffective policing. There may have been people without tickets, but no more than there were for any other game. There was not enough to cause such an issue. It's been proven in the Taylor Report if you care to actually take a look.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:The German model is an example to follow. They have barriers where there are seats, and even seats there for people who get tired and want to sit down (although they won't have much chance of watching the match unless they're surrounded by dwarves).



Even Liverpool fans couldn't cause a massacre in a stadium like that. You could have fairly safe standing areas in modern all seater stadia quite easily at the moment, with no alterations, just designate a particular area as one where people are allowed to stand, it is difficult for a crowd to surge when there are seats in front of them. A return to the days where it's just as many people as can fit in, with no barriers other than the ones at the front, would be a disaster waiting to happen though.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:The issue should be settled democratically. The people who will potentially benefit from standing are the fans, the people who will potentially suffer from standing are, once again, the fans. Perhaps every football club should have a vote among it's members, but I don't know who the fuck Liverpool fans think they are to say that everyone else in the country shouldn't be allowed standing areas.

Dan wrote:No, not at all. In my opinion, seating is safer than standing. So why change it?

Dan wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:The issue should be settled democratically. The people who will potentially benefit from standing are the fans, the people who will potentially suffer from standing are, once again, the fans. Perhaps every football club should have a vote among it's members, but I don't know who the fuck Liverpool fans think they are to say that everyone else in the country shouldn't be allowed standing areas.

Fuck off.

What about the disabled? The old? What about women and children? What happens then? They might end up paying for a ticket. They aren't gonna see the game. If they want to stand, they won't see the game, so we'll just tell them to go to seating area, where they'll probably pay more?

Hardly fair is it?