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    Liverpool FC Official Thread

    Keyser Söze
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    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 Empty Re: Liverpool FC Official Thread

    Post by Keyser Söze Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:54 pm

    Vela wrote:So why would you bring that up, if you don't give a fuck? Obviously you wanted to suggest that if he thinks he is being played out of position, he must certainly be played out of position. You've already done it, so you don't need to hide your intention.
    I'm saying it doesn't matter to me that much. I made it as a passing comment. I mentioned 3 times in that post that he plays wide and the only thing you picked up with a ran with was the "he said he plays out of position". I'm not going into semantics about whether he said it publicly or not. He's obviously unlikely to come out and say "I'm being played out of position, I don't like it". Obviously other players say stuff to that effect but if only way you'll accept a player being played out of position is him saying it then lol.
    Vela wrote:Overall viewership figures for Ligue 1 are high. So no, I am not the only one who watches Ligue 1.
    Good. Next time don't make out like you are.
    Vela wrote:I disagree because it's the truth. I have no idea why you would claim "I didn't like that", it's something that makes no sense at all.
    Why else would you disagree with something that is true? Or do you just like to be contrary for the sake of it
    Vela wrote:https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
    lol that fallacy isn't in effect here. You said I didn't watch PSG play because I said he plays wide. I brought up multiple sources from professional journalists that have said the same. So you're suggesting none of them have watched him play?  rofl   
    Vela wrote:When has Cavani said he's played wide, exactly? An actual quote, not you spinning his quotes or referring to journalists.
    Yeah, him saying "I enjoying playing out wide. Playing in a wider role means I have to do more defensive work, but I don't mind that. Maybe it effects that amount of goals I will score but that is not a problem." Means nothing. Again, this is you being petty. Do want him to say "I play out wide"?
    Vela wrote:This is his performance against Monaco, three days before he "said" that he enjoys playing wide. Does it look like he's playing on the wing against Monaco? It's not even worthy of a debate. Karim Benzema spends more time playing on the wing than Cavani does, because Penaldo takes his place on a regular basis. If you watch that video, you see how often Ibra drops deep. That creates a huge gap in front, which Cavani exploits. There are so many examples of it, just look at these videos:

    Where did I say he plays on the "wing" or plays as a "winger"?  I was very careful with my choice of words. He plays wide but not so wide and restricted that I'd call him a "winger". When people have said he's played "wide" do you expect him to play like Valencia? Huge the touchline all game and wipe in hundreds of crosses?   Laughing 

    I can only view the Ajaccio and Montpellier games, the other two don't work in my region. But those two videos actually prove my point. A lot of his movement is actually from wide positions. Also 3-5min highlight reels hardly do just of positions/movement during a 90mins match scratch 

    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 Cavani-heat-mapLiverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 Ibrahimovic-heat-map
    Clearly playing wide.  

    Vela wrote:
    Almost all of his actions come through the middle. He doesn't play a single cross, nor does he dribble past a single player on the wing. You compared Cavani playing wide to Sturridge when he was at Chelsea; in 2011-12, Sturridge played 77 crosses. You would expect that from someone playing wide, obviously. Cavani in 2012-13? 32. Hell, even Ibrahimovic managed to play more crosses in than Cavani, despite playing centrally whereas Cavani was exiled to the wing. Wide players offer significantly more crosses, that's a certainty. Especially in free-scoring, dominant teams like PSG. I won't bother looking at the stats for other "wide" players in league-winning teams.

    No, you expect that from wingers. You can have wide forwards that don't need to cross the ball. Also, Sturridge made 7 accurate crosses out of 61 whereas Cavani made 8 out of 32. Explains it all. Ibrahimovic has always been a crosser of the ball, 19/97 in his 2nd season at Milan, 9/39 in his 1st season at Milan, 10/52 in his 1st season at PSG. Notice how his crossing has decreased now that Cavani has joined the club 7/39 this season. Surely he should be crossing it more now that he has a player like Cavani playing centrally?  scratch His lowest crossing stats since his Barcelona days, says it all really.

    Vela wrote:These videos are all performances from Cavani throughout the season. All of them come from when he is "playing wide". This is his natural play style, you see him tracking back and recovering the ball in his own half, you see him making runs to wide positions from the middle, you see him getting on the end of balls inside the box.
    I've never said he exclusively plays wide. I did say he does drift in centrally but for the majority of this season he has played wide.
     
    Vela wrote:There is absolutely no way that Cavani plays wide. I don't need to refer to journalists to back up that claim, these are the same journalists who say that Cristiano plays as a winger. You don't need to rely on the opinions of others when you actually watch a player closely. Even MAndzukic plays wide more than Cavani does.  rofl
    I don't care where Mandzukic plays. Cavani does absolutely play out wide, he even alluded to it ffs. I've watched him play, I've seen him play wide, others that are employed to watch him play have said he plays wide. Well, Ronaldo is a mix of a winger and a striker, so it's not ridiculous to label him as either one. It's just too simplistic.  

    The only reason I brought up the journalists was to prove that others have also seen him play out wide. Everyone is wrong and you are right? lol  rofl

    Julien Laurens wrote:Everything started as planned with him and Ibrahimovic playing up front in a flat 4-4-2 formation. It didn't last though. Zlatan was not happy to play like that and coach Laurent Blanc changed it to a 4-3-3 with Cavani wide on the right.

    ‘El Matador’, who turned 27 on Valentine's Day, couldn't be more different than Ibra, on and off the pitch. He is not the kind of guy to moan about a tactical system that doesn't suit him or a position that isn't exactly right for him. He is a striker and a goal scorer, with all the selfishness that goes with it, but he thinks collectively and thinks team as well. However, just because he doesn’t complain, it doesn't mean that he is happy. Of course, he would rather play as a centre forward, not as a winger.
    http://sport.bt.com/sportfootball/football/psg-need-cavani-without-trouble-and-strife-S11363882053160

    Andy Brassell wrote:"Paris St-Germain's Edinson Cavani has been clamouring for a chance at centre-forward having played out wide for much of the season,
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27011662

    Amitai Winehouse wrote:Cavani and PSG won Ligue 1 for the second season running, with the Uruguayan providing 16 goals in the league for his club. Whilst this compares unfavourably with his humongous return of 29 goals in his last season for Napoli, it is still a decent return for any striker, never mind one who often found himself forced to play wide on the right. Cavani definitely did not blossom in this wide role, which required creativity as well as goal scoring prowess
    http://www.squawka.com/news/liverpools-daniel-sturridge-overtakes-edinson-cavani-in-global-striking-stakes/126334

    Ligue 1 website wrote:Fears that the dressing room might be unsettled with so many star names have proved unfounded. Cavani has been the perfect professional, making no fuss about playing wide right in order to leave the striker's role to Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
    http://www.ligue1.com/ligue1/article/cavani-the-team-player.htm

    Version Anglaise wrote:When Zlatan is dropping back, his move is compensated by the run of the other winger – for example Ongenda against Bordeaux and Cavani against Olympiakos.
    .........
    With the 4-3-3, Cavani is in the same situation as Pastore. The Uruguayan is perfect to complete Ibrahimovic’s moves and uses spaces behind the defense… but he can’t play as a winger and is not a link-up player. So when the defense is holding back waiting, he can’t be used as a solution during the build-up stage. That’s what happened against Monaco as PSG always built-up plays on the left-side with him on the right, going inside as a second striker.
    http://www.chroniquestactiques.fr/tactics-paris-sg-laurent-blanc-433-champions-league-ligue1-42071/
    Jerome Pugmire and Samuel Petrequin wrote:
    Cavani has played wide on the right most of the season
    http://www.timescolonist.com/news/national/5-things-to-know-about-chelsea-vs-paris-saint-germain-in-champions-league-quarterfinals-1.945343
    Jonathan Johnson wrote:After initially being played alongside Ibrahimovic in an attacking pair, PSG coach Laurent Blanc quickly switched to a more compact 4-3-3 formation that made the Swede the focal point of the team and forced Cavani out wide on the right
    http://frenchfootballweekly.com/2014/06/14/psgs-edinson-cavani-to-be-uruguays-main-man-in-brazil/

    So no matter what you say or what ever videos/gifs you bring up I'm more than comfortable in the knowledge that he has played wide this season.
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    Post by Keyser Söze Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:59 pm

    Vela wrote:I do not like your aggressive tone, Keyser. think
    I'm not being aggressive. I'm sorry if it seems that way. I just don't like your dismissive tone in regards to players I've seen play. Even through all your (what I think are) nonsense claims I've never once questioned you watching Cavani and PSG. Look how I only tentatively engaged you in that Vela debate, because I've rarely watched him at Real Sociedad. Bar the games against United and the other CL group game highlights, I've only seen them play against Barca, Madrid and Atlético. And even then I'm not particularly paying close attention to Sociedad or Vela. I don't know how much you've watched Sociedad but that doesn't matter because I'm aware that I haven't seen them enough to pass a definitive opinion.
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    Post by Scott_LFC Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:44 am

    As if you're going this in depth with Vela, who frauds knowledge about almost everything football-related. It's obvious you're the one in the right, Keyser, but Vela won't stop what he's doing Laughing
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    Post by Glen Miller Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:37 am

    I'm on my phone right now so I can't quote your response, but I just think you are using the term "position" a wee bit loosely.   I can't really say anything more or better than what Keyser wrote, anyway.
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    Post by Scott_LFC Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:32 am

    Remember when I was posting Can's really ambitious quotes from his first interview? Lazar Markovic has basically done the same Laughing

    Finally, what would your message to Liverpool fans be?

    I went to Partizan and won the title. I went to Benfica and won the title. Now I have joined Liverpool and want to win the title, 100 per cent.

    Can tell what sort of player mentality Rodgers wants at the Club. He does keep mentioning that he's only after players who are ambitious and hungry for success.
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    Post by Keyser Söze Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:16 am

    I like (former) Yugoslav players.
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    Post by Glen Miller Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:18 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:I like (former) Yugoslav players.
    Why? Laughing
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    Post by Keyser Söze Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:36 am

    Glen Miller wrote:
    Keyser Söze wrote:I like (former) Yugoslav players.
    Why? Laughing
    I just like Yugoslavia and the USSR in general  Laughing but I find it amazing that Red Star (with only one foreign player) won a CL as recently as 1991.
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    Post by Zzonked Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:30 am

    Is it pronounced 'Chan' or am I being trolled?
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    Post by Keyser Söze Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:49 am

    Zzonked wrote:Is it pronounced 'Chan' or am I being trolled?
    No, that's right. In Turkish it's d͡ʒɑn and the d͡ʒ  is pronouced like like J or dodge
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    Post by vel Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:16 pm

    Why have I been banned?
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    Post by vel Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:50 pm

    @Keyser:

    That Goal.com translated quote cannot be found anywhere else on the internet. Why? Because it's not a real quote. What he said to Sky Italia is different to what has been posted on Goal's website. He never even says he enjoys playing wide to Sky Italia.  think

    The action heat map is for all of the movement on the pitch. I remember reading from Michael Cox that the average position only counts where the player touches the ball. Here's the average positions from the Ajaccio match (the one you show the heat maps):

    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 063393e040df0c9ae98d1a833478c725

    So Cavani clearly wasn't playing wide. I don't even understand how you can say that when you look at where he was getting the ball, and where he was using the ball. Both of them (Cavani, 9; Ibra, 10) are in a central position. Almost all of his touches come in a central position (if you saw the video). That's why I say that Cavani doesn't play wide; the vast, vast majority of his touches come from central areas. Robben and Ribéry for example, actual wingers, bring the ball inside from wide positions. Cavani rarely does that. Penaldo does that sometimes, but unlike other wingers he pushes out Benz wide. There's no point in saying someone plays wide if they almost always get the ball in the middle of the pitch. It makes no sense. think

    I'm not sure what the more accurate crosses statistic refers to. Sturridge attempted more than double the amount of crosses that Cavani did, and he was an inverted wf. Now that I think about it, it obviously helps when your CF is Drogba. think

    You refer to Ibra playing at Milan, playing at Barça. He's not the typical CF; he wears #10 for PSG, he creates the most chances, has the most assists, even though he scores so much. You look at his match compilations (i.e. his touches in a match) and more of them come in between the lines than in front of the two central defenders. Here's the derby against OM for example:

    youtube.com/watch?v=MxzmEaOB40w

    Cavani didn't start that match, so it was a Pocho-Ibra-Lucas trident. But look at how deep Ibra plays most of the time. Pocho and Lucas regularly take up positions further up the pitch when Ibra drops off. And then here's the other derby against ASSE:

    youtube.com/watch?v=DafcfZZsWTg

    That's with Cavani starting. There's so many plays where he creates something in the centre of the pitch, Cavani making runs in front of him. Clearly we don't agree on Cavani's style; the L1 article you quote paints the image of Ibra being the lone CF, when he isn't. You just watch him play, you see he isn't a normal CF who occupies the two central defenders...it's a waste of his playmaking. He's always getting space in between the lines and he creates opportunities by moving away from his position when others occupy it. I once had an article posted on a Manchester United blog from my Redcafe post. think

    Sorry for being dismissive. In hindsight I was a bit brash for just saying you don't watch him play.
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    Post by vel Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:05 pm

    Scott_LFC wrote:As if you're going this in depth with Vela, who frauds knowledge about almost everything football-related. It's obvious you're the one in the right, Keyser, but Vela won't stop what he's doing Laughing
    mfw you're butthurt about what I said about Can
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    Post by Zzonked Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:32 pm

    vel wrote:Why have I been banned?

    Don't know, must be Mal I guess.
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    Post by Scott_LFC Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:04 pm

    So the Moreno deal has fallen through, because we can't come to an agreement on price. It baffles me how we're okay with spending £25 million on Lallana, but not £20 million on a young, very talented and relatively proven Spanish left back that could potentially be a mainstay in that position for years.

    Now we're trying to sign Ben Davies, who, to be fair to him, has pretty much identical stats in all areas, as Luke Shaw did last season, but it's still underwhelming.
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    Post by Jordan Henderchip Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:36 pm

    Ben Davies is slightly more attractive than Moreno, we'll take him
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    Post by Scott_LFC Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:42 pm

    Been playing with Southampton on FIFA a lot, recently, and Lallana is much better than I expected. Feels similar to when I've got Coutinho on the ball.

    Sterling - Sturridge - Markovic
    Lallana - Coutinho
    Gerrard

    Dat pace up front, with master passer Coutinho behind, and Lallana next to him. Could be a good year for us on FIFA.
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    Post by Scott_LFC Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:38 am

    OptaJoe ‏@OptaJoe 18m
    14 - Raheem Sterling was the youngest player to play a hand in 10+ goals across Europe's big 5 leagues in 13/14 (9 goals, 5 assists). Star.
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    Post by Scott_LFC Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:21 am

    Confirmed #LFC team v Brondby: Brad Jones, Kelly, Ilori, Agger, Smith, Lucas, Rossiter, Coutinho, Suso, Borini, Teixiera

    Can twisted his ankle in training and doesn't play (ffs, wanted to see him) expected to be back for Preston on Saturday.

    Borini up front with the trio of Coutinho, Suso and Teixera behind him looks pretty tasty. That trio are really, very similar and that's a very sexy front 4.

    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 Borini-447072

    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 Article-1348761604001-1539c539000005dc-267571_636x300

    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 100528

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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:39 am

    After watching Celtic last night and now seeing this is the evening's big match I'm starting to think that a world without the World Cup isn't worth living in.
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    Post by Glen Miller Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:16 am

    There are more than enough Major League Soccer games to sink our teeth into. Smile
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    Post by dena Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:16 am

    Glen Miller wrote:There are more than enough Major League Soccer games to sink our teeth into. Smile

    Hey ya boy Thierry Henry was masterful last week, 1 goal 3 assists. And he plays tonight!!! So tune in!!  bounce
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    Post by Eriksen Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:17 am

    Scott_LFC wrote:Dat pace we'll have on FIFA 15 up front.

    Sturridge
    Acceleration: 89
    Sprint speed: 90

    Sterling
    Acceleration: 92
    Sprint speed: 91

    Markovic
    Acceleration: 91
    Sprint speed: 84

    _________

    Sterling is going to be our next star player, I am convinced. I think Coutinho will step up too.
    Fuck off you cretinous odious shit. What is pathetic is your comment and stinking attitude. So far up the proverbial jacksy of the "oooooh what gossip and player" crap that the real abomination is the fact that it takes something like this to actually draw attention to something that is far more important then who or what the club signs

    You're a dick. Quote me on it
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    Post by Scuba Steve Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:26 am

    dena wrote:
    Glen Miller wrote:There are more than enough Major League Soccer games to sink our teeth into. Smile

    Hey ya boy Thierry Henry was masterful last week, 1 goal 3 assists. And he plays tonight!!! So tune in!!  bounce

    Still looking up at United. Team > names

    Is Pelosi with the first team for preseason? On the bench for this game?
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    Post by Keyser Söze Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:56 am

    That game was awful.
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    Post by Scouser_Dave Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:07 am

    Telegraph Football ‏@TeleFootball 12m
    Mark Hughes is set to sign Liverpool winger Oussama Assaidi in a deal worth a potential £7million


    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 Rodgers
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    Post by SBSP Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:46 am

    Eriksen wrote:
    Scott_LFC wrote:Dat pace we'll have on FIFA 15 up front.

    Sturridge
    Acceleration: 89
    Sprint speed: 90

    Sterling
    Acceleration: 92
    Sprint speed: 91

    Markovic
    Acceleration: 91
    Sprint speed: 84

    _________

    Sterling is going to be our next star player, I am convinced. I think Coutinho will step up too.
    Fuck off you cretinous odious shit. What is pathetic is your comment and stinking attitude. So far up the proverbial jacksy of the "oooooh what gossip and player" crap that the real abomination is the fact that it takes something like this to actually draw attention to something that is far more important then who or what the club signs

    You're a dick. Quote me on it
    what rofl
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    Post by Glen Miller Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:47 am

    Scouser_Dave wrote:Telegraph Football ‏@TeleFootball 12m
    Mark Hughes is set to sign Liverpool winger Oussama Assaidi in a deal worth a potential £7million


    Liverpool FC Official Thread - Page 6 Rodgers
    2 million with the extra 5 million coming in when Stoke qualifies for the Champions League, I imagine.
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    Post by Jordan Henderchip Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:00 am

    Why did we sign Assaidi?
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    Post by Dagbon Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:33 pm

    for fucks sake when is Joe Allen going to be a regular starter already, he's triffic

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