World Cup 2014 discussion thread.

What problems are Brazil facing from a structure perspective?

Came here to say Little Brasil.

dena wrote:What problems are Brazil facing from a structure perspective?

1. CBF is run by idiots who think that Brazil has nothing to learn from other nations and are God's gift to football. 

2. Lack of good coaches. There's a reason you don't see any Brazilian coaches in Europe. The really good coach in Brazil right now is Marcelo Oliveira and maybe Cristovao Borges.

3. A shitty calendar where teams play a high number of games per year which burns out players and leads to uninspired football.

4. Shift to defensive results oriented football in the 70's was taken to the extreme. Now no-one knows how to play as a team. It's a dependence on individual quality all the way down. The shift also brought an end to the passing midfielder and the playmaker in Brazil (which is part of the reason why Ganso was so hyped when he came through). That's part of the reason Brazil has no clue of how to construct play in the midfield. The fullbacks who can't defend is also a byproduct of this.

5. Youth football is results first instead of development. Heavily related to point 4. 

6. Expanding on the insularity from point 1. There's a paucity of foreign coaches and good players from the rest of South America in the league. So the same ideas are just recycled endlessly. 

7. Everybody pretty much plays the same way: sit back, counter with fullbacks, long balls, and dudes up top (except for the aforementioned Marcelo Oliveira). The tactical ideas are outdated beyond belief.

I think that's it. Might have repeated myself once or twice.

EDIT: Might as well add in ridiculous ticket prices that exclude the lower classes ( worse now with the brand new WC stadiums) and violence caused mostly by ultras (torcidas organizadas).

Is there a good reason to continue the state cups? That would seem like the logical thing to drop from the calendar.

Rei Andros wrote:

dena wrote:What problems are Brazil facing from a structure perspective?

1. CBF is run by idiots who think that Brazil has nothing to learn from other nations and are God's gift to football. 

2. Lack of good coaches. There's a reason you don't see any Brazilian coaches in Europe. The really good coach in Brazil right now is Marcelo Oliveira and maybe Cristovao Borges.

3. A shitty calendar where teams play a high number of games per year which burns out players and leads to uninspired football.

4. Shift to defensive results oriented football in the 70's was taken to the extreme. Now no-one knows how to play as a team. It's a dependence on individual quality all the way down. The shift also brought an end to the passing midfielder and the playmaker in Brazil (which is part of the reason why Ganso was so hyped when he came through). That's part of the reason Brazil has no clue of how to construct play in the midfield. The fullbacks who can't defend is also a byproduct of this.

5. Youth football is results first instead of development. Heavily related to point 4. 

6. Expanding on the insularity from point 1. There's a paucity of foreign coaches and good players from the rest of South America in the league. So the same ideas are just recycled endlessly. 

7. Everybody pretty much plays the same way: sit back, counter with fullbacks, long balls, and dudes up top (except for the aforementioned Marcelo Oliveira). The tactical ideas are outdated beyond belief.

I think that's it. Might have repeated myself once or twice.

EDIT: Might as well add in ridiculous ticket prices that exclude the lower classes ( worse now with the brand new WC stadiums) and violence caused mostly by ultras (torcidas organizadas).

Sounds really similar to the problems with England.

Scuba Steve wrote:Is there a good reason to continue the state cups? That would seem like the logical thing to drop from the calendar.

Knew I missed something. So there are good arguments for and against it. Against because the only games people really care about are the big games. The rest of them might as well be attended by tumbleweed. Takes off too much time of the calendar, and is an example of the big clubs being at the beck and call of the small clubs. (Every state gets one vote so the CBF caters to everyone.)

The argument for centers around it being the way small clubs survive through the revenue they get from facing bigger clubs. Some clubs only have the state championship so their ssn starts in January and ends in May. Discontinuing the state championships would probably see a lot of them go bust. Another argument is that they're good for revealing talent at the smaller clubs. Then there's the historical reasoning. The state championships have been around since about 1911 (I think). A national leagues wasn't established until 1971 or so.

The best compromise would be a complete restructuring with the big clubs either completely removed or playing far less games. The CBF is lazy and incompetent though, so I don't see this happening soon. There's a movement created by players called Bom Senso trying to lobby for improvements in Brazilian football, but they haven't been able to bring about any changes yet.

@The_Zlatan: I like to think of Brazilian club football of being stuck as England before the start of the Premier League. Only in certain respects, though.

I get the tradition angle, which is impossible to ignore, but surely that's a product of lack of infrastructure that made having a singular league before the 70s impossible. I'm sure it would be nice to keep both, you're reasons for the state tournaments all make sense. But if the country wants to move forward in terms of the national team, sacrificing the lower levels of the club set up seems like a logical step.

Wouldn't it be terrible if Mascherano sustained a serious injury.

Concussions are rather serious.

Anyone who gets a concussion should be pulled to be honest. If he's stupid enough to continue then he deserves what he gets.

Agreed. Same situation with the Uruguayan guy. Problem is, unlike in American football, where you can remove the player to diagnose the injury and see if the player is capable of playing again, there isn't that break for footballers, and thus the pressure, especially early in the game, is to get the player back on the field as quickly as possible. 

FIFA have to figure out someway to remedy this, because its likely some of these players are going to pass from CTE from going back out onto the pitch after a concussion.

Rei Andros wrote:

dena wrote:What problems are Brazil facing from a structure perspective?

1. CBF is run by idiots who think that Brazil has nothing to learn from other nations and are God's gift to football. 

2. Lack of good coaches. There's a reason you don't see any Brazilian coaches in Europe. The really good coach in Brazil right now is Marcelo Oliveira and maybe Cristovao Borges.

3. A shitty calendar where teams play a high number of games per year which burns out players and leads to uninspired football.

4. Shift to defensive results oriented football in the 70's was taken to the extreme. Now no-one knows how to play as a team. It's a dependence on individual quality all the way down. The shift also brought an end to the passing midfielder and the playmaker in Brazil (which is part of the reason why Ganso was so hyped when he came through). That's part of the reason Brazil has no clue of how to construct play in the midfield. The fullbacks who can't defend is also a byproduct of this.

5. Youth football is results first instead of development. Heavily related to point 4. 

6. Expanding on the insularity from point 1. There's a paucity of foreign coaches and good players from the rest of South America in the league. So the same ideas are just recycled endlessly. 

7. Everybody pretty much plays the same way: sit back, counter with fullbacks, long balls, and dudes up top (except for the aforementioned Marcelo Oliveira). The tactical ideas are outdated beyond belief.

I think that's it. Might have repeated myself once or twice.

EDIT: Might as well add in ridiculous ticket prices that exclude the lower classes ( worse now with the brand new WC stadiums) and violence caused mostly by ultras (torcidas organizadas).

remove all dirty pigs from CBF, abolish shitty state league for bigger clubs

i could say marcelo oliveira is the best brazilian coach right now, but he is not so great, still need to improve a lot

Scuba Steve wrote:I get the tradition angle, which is impossible to ignore, but surely that's a product of lack of infrastructure that made having a singular league before the 70s impossible. I'm sure it would be nice to keep both, you're reasons for the state tournaments all make sense. But if the country wants to move forward in terms of the national team, sacrificing the lower levels of the club set up seems like a logical step.

You're right about the lack of infrastructure. I should say that the reasons in favor aren't really mine. Just repeating what I've seen. 

I suspect that revamping the state championships isN'T directly correlated to any improvements in the national team. Maybe some sort of secondary or tertiary effect, though.

Does concussion always mean loss of consciousness?

No, but that could be one of the symptoms.

Rei Andros wrote:

Scuba Steve wrote:I get the tradition angle, which is impossible to ignore, but surely that's a product of lack of infrastructure that made having a singular league before the 70s impossible. I'm sure it would be nice to keep both, you're reasons for the state tournaments all make sense. But if the country wants to move forward in terms of the national team, sacrificing the lower levels of the club set up seems like a logical step.

You're right about the lack of infrastructure. I should say that the reasons in favor aren't really mine. Just repeating what I've seen. 

I suspect that revamping the state championships is directly correlated to any improvements in the national team. Maybe some sort of secondary or tertiary effect, though.

Oh sorry, wasn't trying to imply that any of those were necessarily your opinions or views.

I was kind of interested to see you say that everyone plays the same way, as its a problem. With Jurgie here as technical director in addition to manager of the national team, he's trying to get the entire US set up (from U-14 or however low they go) on the same page tactically. Presumably, he believes that's one way of improving the overall quality of the program.

Robin van Rapist bottles it again.

Not much you can do when your team sits back.

Aguero doesn't look anywhere near match fitness. Should have kept Higuain on, he looked dangerous at times.

terrible penal

where's krul ?  

Why was RVP subbed off?  

Grenade wrote:Why was RVP subbed off?  

Shit, though Huntelaar was no better.

argentina make the final in brazil and make for the third time a final against germany

nederland will destroy little brazil for third place

Should have fucked off Cillesen altogether. Shit cunt.

Van Gaal tactical genius

Picking Vlaar to go first.

Not putting Krul on again

What a retard. Bought into his own hype and tried to get too clever, lmfao.

Putting your worst penalty takers first is good strategy, it's just a little counterintuitive. He would have put Krul on if he'd had sub's left.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Putting your worst penalty takers first is good strategy,

Pls explain  

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Putting your worst penalty takers first is good strategy, it's just a little counterintuitive.  He would have put Krul on if he'd had sub's left.

The game was OBVIOUSLY going to penalties, yet this genius used up his last sub on such a shit, pointless sub that achieved absolutely fuck all.