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    Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six"

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    Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" Empty Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six"

    Post by Carlos Jenkinson Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:38 am

    There was a joyless inevitability about the news of Jonjo Shelvey's call-up to the England squad.

    People called for the side to be refreshed, infused with younger blood after Euro 2012 and that remains the right thing to do. Players should be picked at the start of a qualification campaign who will be in a position to excel two summers later.

    There is a difference, however, between picking new players who need to use those two years to learn their way around international football and picking new players who still need to learn their own game.

    Shelvey is clearly going to pick up his fair share of caps for England in the years to come but he is some way off being ready for senior international football. He has yet to define and secure his role in the Liverpool team, yet to mature personally and professionally – witness his startlingly immature behaviour in the wake of his red card against Manchester United.

    Regardless of whether or not Jonny Evans should have walked as well, lashing out at Sir Alex Ferguson and then following it up with a lunge-tackle goal celebration in a subsequent game betrays the fact that the 20-year-old has a lot of growing-up to do.

    If Shelvey had put in his handful of promising recent performances (and they are promising) across the city for Everton, his inclusion for the Three Lions would be seen as a joke. Why pick an obviously raw young talent off the back of a few good games when many others have proved more on a regular basis for years?

    Shelvey is not the only one to be called up having done very little, seemingly only because he has done it at a top-six side.

    Already in Roy Hodgson's short tenure, Martin Kelly, also of Liverpool, made it in to the 23-man squad for Euro 2012 as cover at right-back. He had played just 20 games that season, performing encouragingly for one of his age but already clearly needing to be moved to centre-back.

    Tony Hibbert, a specialist right-back, reliable and capable, with over 250 Premier League games to his name, could consider himself a saint not for making a Grant Holt-like outburst. The Everton man is not the next Gary Neville but, if Glen Johnson had got injured, there can be no argument as to which of he and Kelly you would have preferred in a major tournament match there and then.

    Again, Kelly may well go on to pick up many caps for England, but bringing a youngster along for the experience at a European Championship who may not even be able to dislodge Martin Skrtel and Daniel Agger at his club in time for 2014? There was no sense in it.

    Again at Liverpool, Raheem Sterling's recent introduction to the senior set-up before even a single Under-21 match was ludicrous. Some exciting stepovers and one excellent cross against Manchester City were far from a case to bring the winger in ahead of Nathan Dyer, so outstanding for Swansea City last season.

    Sterling is another who would do well to be developed enough for a role in Brazil in 2014 but the slightest hype at Anfield and into the squad he comes.

    An encouraging counterpoint to the 17-year-old's call was that of Adam Lallana. At 24, the Southampton captain fits the bill exactly of a player who is young enough to play a part for many years to come but has done the work at club level to prepare himself for international duty first.

    Over three increasingly impressive seasons, Lallana has polished his game, blossoming into a player clearly far above Championship level, and matured enough to earn the skipper's armband at St Mary’s Stadium. He offers freshness to England but is also a complete player, a ready-made option for Hodgson.

    So why, when Frank Lampard gets a knock, does Shelvey get the nod? Lallana goes forgotten and Leon Osman, another unsung player in a similar position to the Liverpool youngster, is overlooked once again as well.

    This is not only a bias towards Liverpool. Look at Manchester United's Tom Cleverley. Again, the midfielder has obvious ability and potential but only made 15 appearances in 2011-12, a season which should have been key to his growth had he not been injured.

    His rawness was obvious against Ukraine in September when, in the No.10 role, he was skittish and ill-composed. Cleverley will have a role to play going forward but both he and England would be better served if he concentrated on learning at Old Trafford first.

    Hodgson is not the first to exhibit this bias towards players from the "big six" but is on track to take it further than before. As well as those mentioned, Ryan Bertrand is still yet to do anything of serious note at Chelsea. James Milner runs around perfectly well but so do countless others in the Premier League.

    Danny Welbeck has not disgraced himself for England so far but will clearly struggle to continue his development with regular first-team action in the bolstered attacking ranks at United. Meanwhile, in Scotland they decry Celtic goal-machine Gary Hooper's absence from the international reckoning.

    Holt's rant was brash but he had a point - his demonstration of all-round ability and goals against the league's best warranted a test in a friendly or two. Rickie Lambert of Southampton's ability has been clear to regular watchers for some time. Danny Graham of Swansea City must be knocking on the door too. And that is just up front.

    Scott Sinclair: Overlooked this summer for Stewart Downing. Leon Britton: Ignored in favour of Jordan Henderson. Jonny Howson is at the very least no further away from the required level than Henderson, nor Newcastle's Danny Simpson compared to Kelly. Dyer. Lallana. Osman. Hibbert.

    Rather than throw youngsters in before they are ready, when fans will expect results immediately, Hodgson needs to look beyond the small splashes in the big ponds and put some faith in those thriving in smaller waters.

    Important stuff highlighted
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    Post by Keanoo Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:45 am

    Yes.

    Lallana should be called up ahead of Shelvey, Sterling etc
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    Post by Guest Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:48 am

    Probably. But that's true for most country's Managers. Playing at a "big" club is always going to make it more likely that you'll be called up.

    Besides, article sounds like it was written by a bitter Everton fan.


    Last edited by Ché Guayaba on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Paulinho Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:49 am

    What a silly point of argument. Beating a dead horse IMO

    I personally don't feel Hodgson makes a difference. The FA break his balls over it most likely
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    Post by AndItsKoren! Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:56 am

    An encouraging counterpoint to the 17-year-old's call was that of Adam Lallana. At 24, the Southampton captain fits the bill exactly of a player who is young enough to play a part for many years to come but has done the work at club level to prepare himself for international duty first.

    Over three increasingly impressive seasons, Lallana has polished his game, blossoming into a player clearly far above Championship level, and matured enough to earn the skipper's armband at St Mary’s Stadium. He offers freshness to England but is also a complete player, a ready-made option for Hodgson.


    This is bullshit. How is a player who played well in the Championship ready to play for England. He hasn't exactly done much in his first few Premier League games despite after having relatively easy fixtures at home to Wigan and Fulham. 'Matured enough to earn the skipper's armband at St Mary's Stadium' He only has the armband because he has come through the ranks and one of their own.

    The funniest part... 'a complete player' Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 70955

    Tony Hibbert, Grant Holt... they are decent players like Sterling and Shelvey. I wouldn't say they are better at their job than these two. They are too old to improve drastically, why waste the chance on them we can give the experience to the promising youth (like Germany did).

    Tony Hibbert isn't in the England squad because there is Glen Johnson, Walker, Richards and i'm sure someone else I can't remember the name of better in the position.

    Scott Sinclair: Overlooked this summer for Stewart Downing. Leon Britton: Ignored in favour of Jordan Henderson. Jonny Howson is at the very least no further away from the required level than Henderson, nor Newcastle's Danny Simpson compared to Kelly. Dyer. Lallana. Osman. Hibbert.

    Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 70955 Sinclair, Britton and Dyer are three of the most overrated players ever. Jonny Howson, the guy who played half a season in the Premier League? Danny Simpson, the player Newcastle are clearly trying to place? Osman is no better than what is in the squad.

    Who wrote this stupid article? Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 58503
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    Post by Jordi Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:07 am

    Lallana hasn't done much?

    4 assists so far this season, the best in the team. 15 chances created.


    26 interceptions, and 12 tackles won out of 19. He's more complete than most other wide midfielders we have.
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    Post by Guest Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:08 am

    Nothing to do with Hodgson, it's always been this shit way.
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    Post by menalawyerguy Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:09 am

    Is del Bosque biased towards the "big two"?
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    Post by Guest Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:12 am

    AndItsKoren! wrote:
    Scott Sinclair: Overlooked this summer for Stewart Downing. Leon Britton: Ignored in favour of Jordan Henderson. Jonny Howson is at the very least no further away from the required level than Henderson, nor Newcastle's Danny Simpson compared to Kelly. Dyer. Lallana. Osman. Hibbert.

    Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 70955 Sinclair, Britton and Dyer are three of the most overrated players ever. Jonny Howson, the guy who played half a season in the Premier League? Danny Simpson, the player Newcastle are clearly trying to place? Osman is no better than what is in the squad.

    Who wrote this stupid article? Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 58503

    I think he's trying to say that Sinclair, Britton, Kelly, etc. are equally shit except in the case of Howson because you really can't get any shitter than Jordan Henderson.
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    Post by AndItsKoren! Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:19 am

    Jordi wrote:Lallana hasn't done much?

    4 assists so far this season, the best in the team. 15 chances created.


    26 interceptions, and 12 tackles won out of 19. He's more complete than most other wide midfielders we have.

    Stats mean nothing. I'm pretty sure Nani had a big amount of assists last season but still wasn't great. A complete wide midfielder does not a) make him a complete player and b) he was being compared to central midfielders in the article.

    Pico wrote:
    AndItsKoren! wrote:

    Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 70955 Sinclair, Britton and Dyer are three of the most overrated players ever. Jonny Howson, the guy who played half a season in the Premier League? Danny Simpson, the player Newcastle are clearly trying to place? Osman is no better than what is in the squad.

    Who wrote this stupid article? Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 58503

    I think he's trying to say that Sinclair, Britton, Kelly, etc. are equally shit except in the case of Howson because you really can't get any shitter than Jordan Henderson.

    But that just isn't true. Kelly is a much better player than Danny Simpson. Sterling has shown in his few games that he is better than Nathan Dyer and a much better prospect. As for Leon Britton, he is a prime example of why stats are a shit way to judge a player.

    At the end of the day, there is no harm copying what Germany did. England don't have the same quality Germany did at that time, but I'm pretty sure we'll fair off better in 4 years time if we give the likes of Sterling, Henderson, Kelly, Jenkinson, Welbeck etc the experience than if we give Grant Holt or Leon Britton some games. It is bad enough past managers wasted caps on Davies and Nugent, learn from the mistakes.
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    Post by Paulinho Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:27 am

    Sterling has shown nothing of the sort. All that has happened is that teams have not payed him respect tactically (like happens to many fast players who can dribble, especially in the beginning of their careers). Against Stoke, a tactically solid team, and now that teams in England are well-aware of him, he was worse than sub-par, he was useless.
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    Post by Guest Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:32 am

    There would be a backlash if he chose players from unfashionable sides .. different story if they played for a top 6 club. There has always been a bias and in the case of the SPL, cross border racism. Been going on for years.
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    Post by Paulinho Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:33 am

    ZOMBIE KILLER wrote:Been going on for years.

    This

    It's barely discussable
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    Post by Cam Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:43 am

    Liverpool finished 8th though
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    Post by Guest Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:52 am

    AndItsKoren! wrote:
    Jordi wrote:Lallana hasn't done much?

    4 assists so far this season, the best in the team. 15 chances created.


    26 interceptions, and 12 tackles won out of 19. He's more complete than most other wide midfielders we have.

    Stats mean nothing. I'm pretty sure Nani had a big amount of assists last season but still wasn't great. A complete wide midfielder does not a) make him a complete player and b) he was being compared to central midfielders in the article.

    Pico wrote:

    I think he's trying to say that Sinclair, Britton, Kelly, etc. are equally shit except in the case of Howson because you really can't get any shitter than Jordan Henderson.

    But that just isn't true. Kelly is a much better player than Danny Simpson. Sterling has shown in his few games that he is better than Nathan Dyer and a much better prospect. As for Leon Britton, he is a prime example of why stats are a shit way to judge a player.

    At the end of the day, there is no harm copying what Germany did. England don't have the same quality Germany did at that time, but I'm pretty sure we'll fair off better in 4 years time if we give the likes of Sterling, Henderson, Kelly, Jenkinson, Welbeck etc the experience than if we give Grant Holt or Leon Britton some games. It is bad enough past managers wasted caps on Davies and Nugent, learn from the mistakes.

    It doesn't matter either way tbh - England are shit. If so-called world class players such as Gerrard, Rooney, Terry, etc. can't even come close to winning a major trophy then there really is no point in getting your hopes up for the new lot.
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    Post by wellz Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:36 am

    If I were Hodgson, I would play this team on Friday

    Hart
    Walker - Shawcross - Cahill - Baines
    Milner - Carrick - Nolan - A. Johnson
    Rooney
    Defoe


    Even though Nolan didn't get called up. Why does he not have any caps?
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    Post by Theo Filippo Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:39 am

    Because he's an average footballer.
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    Post by Jordi Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:41 am

    Theo Filippo wrote:Because he's an average footballer.
    Pretty much that.. lool
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    Post by AndItsKoren! Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:45 am

    If I was England manager I would play



    Hart
    Jagileka-Cahill-Lescott
    Walker-----Carrick-----Baines
    Milner-Lampard
    Rooney
    Defoe
    But i'm not
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    Post by wellz Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:48 am

    Theo Filippo wrote:Because he's an average footballer.

    There are many "average footballers" with England caps. I'm not saying make him a staple of the team I'm just surprised
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    Post by Carlos Jenkinson Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:55 am

    AndItsKoren! wrote:
    An encouraging counterpoint to the 17-year-old's call was that of Adam Lallana. At 24, the Southampton captain fits the bill exactly of a player who is young enough to play a part for many years to come but has done the work at club level to prepare himself for international duty first.

    Over three increasingly impressive seasons, Lallana has polished his game, blossoming into a player clearly far above Championship level, and matured enough to earn the skipper's armband at St Mary’s Stadium. He offers freshness to England but is also a complete player, a ready-made option for Hodgson.


    This is bullshit. How is a player who played well in the Championship ready to play for England. He hasn't exactly done much in his first few Premier League games despite after having relatively easy fixtures at home to Wigan and Fulham. 'Matured enough to earn the skipper's armband at St Mary's Stadium' He only has the armband because he has come through the ranks and one of their own.

    The funniest part... 'a complete player' Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 70955

    Tony Hibbert, Grant Holt... they are decent players like Sterling and Shelvey. I wouldn't say they are better at their job than these two. They are too old to improve drastically, why waste the chance on them we can give the experience to the promising youth (like Germany did).

    Tony Hibbert isn't in the England squad because there is Glen Johnson, Walker, Richards and i'm sure someone else I can't remember the name of better in the position.

    Scott Sinclair: Overlooked this summer for Stewart Downing. Leon Britton: Ignored in favour of Jordan Henderson. Jonny Howson is at the very least no further away from the required level than Henderson, nor Newcastle's Danny Simpson compared to Kelly. Dyer. Lallana. Osman. Hibbert.

    Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 70955 Sinclair, Britton and Dyer are three of the most overrated players ever. Jonny Howson, the guy who played half a season in the Premier League? Danny Simpson, the player Newcastle are clearly trying to place? Osman is no better than what is in the squad.

    Who wrote this stupid article? Is Hodgson biased towards the "big-six" 58503

    You're past it
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    Post by Danny Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:13 am

    Article mentioned Tony Hibbert. Can't be a serious article.
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    Post by ricky//habana Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:06 am

    Pretty stupid article.

    Sinclair or Dyer wouldn't be happy being called up to sit on the bench all game, you can only get away with that kind of thing with the most rookie players.

    Anyway, I haven't seen a single name mentioned in the list of players who shouldn't be called up, and players that should, that should actually make the first team as none of them are good enough.

    The only point worth arguing is the exclusion of Crouch given his good form and strike rate against the type of opposition we face in qualifiers.
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    Post by Carlos Jenkinson Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:43 pm

    ricky//habana wrote:Pretty stupid article.

    Sinclair or Dyer wouldn't be happy being called up to sit on the bench all game, you can only get away with that kind of thing with the most rookie players.

    Anyway, I haven't seen a single name mentioned in the list of players who shouldn't be called up, and players that should, that should actually make the first team as none of them are good enough.

    The only point worth arguing is the exclusion of Crouch given his good form and strike rate against the type of opposition we face in qualifiers.

    Ignore 70% of the article why don't you

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