Join the forum, it's quick and easy

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


+15
Laurencio
Paulinho
The_Quilo
Grenade
Phadunkin Donuts
Zzonked
Bye_Ya
Jord
Jorlung
SBSP
Kuled
Juventino
Cam
Danny
ResurrectionRooney
19 posters

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Theo Filippo
    Theo Filippo
     
     


    Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
    Posts : 21636
    Age : 30

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Theo Filippo Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:10 am

    Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:13 am

    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!
    Laughing




    YNWA
    Carlos Jenkinson
    Carlos Jenkinson
     
     


    Posts : 10964

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Carlos Jenkinson Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:13 am

    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!

    rofl
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:14 am

    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!

    rofl
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:28 am

    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!
    What the fuck is this all about? Is it ok to sing about killing people, but if you mention the word black its not. And why are you posting about this shit, you dont give a fuck. scratch Theo posting rubbish again. Rolling Eyes All the little fannies think this is funny, says it all about this forum.
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:33 am

    Glen Damon wrote:
    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!
    Laughing




    YNWA
    Manchester United fans dont sing YNWA. Rolling Eyes And what happened to you, after the message you sent me telling me you did not always agree with things i said, but you told me about you just being a troll and you were only on here to troll all the other fuckers on here and most of them you did not even like. Fuck me Peter i thought we had an understanding. Cry
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:02 pm

    Alan wrote:
    Glen Damon wrote: Laughing




    YNWA
    Manchester United fans dont sing YNWA. Rolling Eyes And what happened to you, after the message you sent me telling me you did not always agree with things i said, but you told me about you just being a troll and you were only on here to troll all the other fuckers on here and most of them you did not even like. Fuck me Peter i thought we had an understanding. Cry
    I never said I was here to troll. That is an accusation that I resent.
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:21 pm

    Glen Damon wrote:
    Alan wrote:Manchester United fans dont sing YNWA. Rolling Eyes And what happened to you, after the message you sent me telling me you did not always agree with things i said, but you told me about you just being a troll and you were only on here to troll all the other fuckers on here and most of them you did not even like. Fuck me Peter i thought we had an understanding. Cry
    I never said I was here to troll. That is an accusation that I resent.
    Pull the other one Peter, you can't kid the kidder. tut tut
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:46 pm

    Alan wrote:
    Glen Damon wrote:I never said I was here to troll. That is an accusation that I resent.
    Pull the other one Peter, you can't kid the kidder. Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 950455
    I am sorry, Alan. I am not sure how my post offended you, but I am sorry if it did. I should be more transparent with you.
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:21 pm

    Glen Damon wrote:
    Alan wrote:Pull the other one Peter, you can't kid the kidder. Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 950455
    I am sorry, Alan. I am not sure how my post offended you, but I am sorry if it did. I should be more transparent with you.

    Your post offended me Laughing You actually think i give a fuck what people post about me on here. And here's me thinking it was all a bit of banter, and well trolls will be trolls. What a Face
    ShakerMatty
    ShakerMatty
     
     


    Formerly known as : Burytillidie
    Posts : 13609
    Age : 29
    Location : Mancunian way
    Supports : Bury and Salford RLFC

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by ShakerMatty Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm

    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!

    They still sing that. shifty
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:41 pm

    ShakerMatty wrote:
    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!

    They still sing that. shifty
    Yes he was trying to have a go at me. Wink And i could not give a shit what fans sing about, but its quite funny that you can sing about killing people and its ok, but if you mention the word black or say anything racist its a different story. scratch Its a strange world we live in, dont you think. Suspect
    Theo Filippo
    Theo Filippo
     
     


    Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
    Posts : 21636
    Age : 30

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Theo Filippo Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:18 pm

    Alan wrote:
    Theo Filippo wrote:Why does this all matter?

    In 1987 Manchester United fans sung WE WILL KILL ANY BASTARD THAT GETS IN OUR WAY lol!
    What the fuck is this all about? Is it ok to sing about killing people, but if you mention the word black its not. And why are you posting about this shit, you dont give a fuck. scratch Theo posting rubbish again. Rolling Eyes All the little fannies think this is funny, says it all about this forum.
    It is not meant for retards.
    Juventino
    Juventino
     
     


    Posts : 1872
    Location : Bilbao - negotiating for Fernando
    Supports : Llorente

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Juventino Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:20 pm

    Alan wrote:
    Glen Damon wrote: Laughing




    YNWA
    Manchester United fans dont sing YNWA. Rolling Eyes And what happened to you, after the message you sent me telling me you did not always agree with things i said, but you told me about you just being a troll and you were only on here to troll all the other fuckers on here and most of them you did not even like. Fuck me Peter i thought we had an understanding. Cry

    rofl
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:34 pm

    Theo Filippo wrote:
    Alan wrote:What the fuck is this all about? Is it ok to sing about killing people, but if you mention the word black its not. And why are you posting about this shit, you dont give a fuck. scratch Theo posting rubbish again. Rolling Eyes All the little fannies think this is funny, says it all about this forum.
    It is not meant for retards.

    Exactly Twitch
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:48 pm

    I think people believe that i believed, that everything Peter or others post is meant to be believable. scratch So on the other hand they must have also believed all my posts back were meant to be all be believed as gospel, and that all i post is actaully believeable. So the gullible people that believe, are actually so gullible. that its all a bit unbelievable that things posted on this forum are really all meant to be believable. think

    Not back to phase 1

    Its not meant for retards that why some will never understand. doh
    Laurencio
    Laurencio
     
     


    Posts : 8730
    Age : 36
    Location : La Paz, Bolivia
    Supports : Rosenborg, ManUtd

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Laurencio Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:50 pm

    Alan wrote:
    ShakerMatty wrote:

    They still sing that. shifty
    Yes he was trying to have a go at me. Wink And i could not give a shit what fans sing about, but its quite funny that you can sing about killing people and its ok, but if you mention the word black or say anything racist its a different story. scratch Its a strange world we live in, dont you think. Suspect

    To use racist language is to use a tool designed to demean, dehumanize and demonize a specific group of people on the basis of their perceived skin colour, nationality or other origin related aspects of a person. It is a method used in warfare to train soldiers to regard the enemy as something else than them to make it easier for them to kill. Racist language promotes the view of a certain group of people being different, not being human but a "*insert any derogatory term here*". Why would you use language that is most commonly used in warfare to help soldiers kill in any peaceful situation? Racist language may seem innocent at first, but simply by looking at the persecution of Jews in Europe among other historical persecutions, you see a shift in time from simply referring to someone as "different" and using demonizing language, to murder, and eventually genocide. Only in the past 70 years we've seen it repeated in Germany, in Russia, in Cambodia, in Rwanda, in Darfur, in the US, in South Africa, in Serbia, and more.

    So you tell me, should we simply ignore it once again, as we always do and have done for thousands of years? Or should we actually try to get rid of it considering we have thousands of years of history and of empiric evidence that shows more or less conclusively that this type of language almost always ends in genocide, lobsided wars, and mass murder?
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:54 pm

    Laurencio wrote:
    Alan wrote:Yes he was trying to have a go at me. Wink And i could not give a shit what fans sing about, but its quite funny that you can sing about killing people and its ok, but if you mention the word black or say anything racist its a different story. scratch Its a strange world we live in, dont you think. Suspect

    To use racist language is to use a tool designed to demean, dehumanize and demonize a specific group of people on the basis of their perceived skin colour, nationality or other origin related aspects of a person. It is a method used in warfare to train soldiers to regard the enemy as something else than them to make it easier for them to kill. Racist language promotes the view of a certain group of people being different, not being human but a "*insert any derogatory term here*". Why would you use language that is most commonly used in warfare to help soldiers kill in any peaceful situation? Racist language may seem innocent at first, but simply by looking at the persecution of Jews in Europe among other historical persecutions, you see a shift in time from simply referring to someone as "different" and using demonizing language, to murder, and eventually genocide. Only in the past 70 years we've seen it repeated in Germany, in Russia, in Cambodia, in Rwanda, in Darfur, in the US, in South Africa, in Serbia, and more.

    So you tell me, should we simply ignore it once again, as we always do and have done for thousands of years? Or should we actually try to get rid of it considering we have thousands of years of history and of empiric evidence that shows more or less conclusively that this type of language almost always ends in genocide, lobsided wars, and mass murder?

    Absolutley not ive never said we should ignore it, far from it. I just find it strange that people can sing and chant other things like about killing people and other things, and it does not seem to be a big issue. Laughing
    Theo Filippo
    Theo Filippo
     
     


    Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
    Posts : 21636
    Age : 30

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Theo Filippo Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:54 pm

    Alan wrote:I think people believe that i believed, that everything Peter or others post is meant to be believable. scratch So on the other hand they must have also believed all my posts back were meant to be all be believed as gospel, and that all i post is actaully believeable. So the gullible people that believe, are actually so gullible. that its all a bit unbelievable that things posted on this forum are really all meant to be believable. think

    Not back to phase 1

    Its not meant for retards that why some will never understand. doh
    Yes.
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:59 pm

    Theo Filippo wrote:
    Alan wrote:I think people believe that i believed, that everything Peter or others post is meant to be believable. scratch So on the other hand they must have also believed all my posts back were meant to be all be believed as gospel, and that all i post is actaully believeable. So the gullible people that believe, are actually so gullible. that its all a bit unbelievable that things posted on this forum are really all meant to be believable. think

    Not back to phase 1

    Its not meant for retards that why some will never understand. doh
    Yes.
    Good day to you then, Theo Filippo. Wink
    Laurencio
    Laurencio
     
     


    Posts : 8730
    Age : 36
    Location : La Paz, Bolivia
    Supports : Rosenborg, ManUtd

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Laurencio Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:07 am

    Alan wrote:
    Laurencio wrote:

    To use racist language is to use a tool designed to demean, dehumanize and demonize a specific group of people on the basis of their perceived skin colour, nationality or other origin related aspects of a person. It is a method used in warfare to train soldiers to regard the enemy as something else than them to make it easier for them to kill. Racist language promotes the view of a certain group of people being different, not being human but a "*insert any derogatory term here*". Why would you use language that is most commonly used in warfare to help soldiers kill in any peaceful situation? Racist language may seem innocent at first, but simply by looking at the persecution of Jews in Europe among other historical persecutions, you see a shift in time from simply referring to someone as "different" and using demonizing language, to murder, and eventually genocide. Only in the past 70 years we've seen it repeated in Germany, in Russia, in Cambodia, in Rwanda, in Darfur, in the US, in South Africa, in Serbia, and more.

    So you tell me, should we simply ignore it once again, as we always do and have done for thousands of years? Or should we actually try to get rid of it considering we have thousands of years of history and of empiric evidence that shows more or less conclusively that this type of language almost always ends in genocide, lobsided wars, and mass murder?

    Absolutley not ive never said we should ignore it, far from it. I just find it strange that people can sing and chant other things like about killing people and other things, and it does not seem to be a big issue. Laughing

    Then why bring it up in relation to racism? Why even make the comparison? Your wording made it look like you were saying the reaction to racism is an overreaction and that this one generalized chant which I don't think anyone would ever take seriously, is more severe or just as severe.
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:36 am

    Laurencio wrote:
    Alan wrote:

    Absolutley not ive never said we should ignore it, far from it. I just find it strange that people can sing and chant other things like about killing people and other things, and it does not seem to be a big issue. Laughing

    Then why bring it up in relation to racism? Why even make the comparison? Your wording made it look like you were saying the reaction to racism is an overreaction and that this one generalized chant which I don't think anyone would ever take seriously, is more severe or just as severe.

    I only brought it up because it seemed to wind a few people up, like a certain RR. Wink Sorry i thought you might have realised that. And i did not mention it this time someone else did. But i still believe sticks and stones and all that. Laughing
    ResurrectionRooney
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     


    Posts : 17681
    Supports : United

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by ResurrectionRooney Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:47 pm

    LUIS SUAREZ IS A NUMPTY FOR THE RECORD

    LUIS SUAREZ claims the FA and English football in general are in Manchester United’s pockets.

    The chipmunk-faced striker believes this is why he got an eight-match FA ban for repeatedly racially abusing Patrice Evra.

    This, obviously, is the same Old Trafford-controlled FA who handed out record eight-month suspensions to Rio Ferdinand (for missing a drugs test) and Eric Cantona (for drop-kicking a racist thug).

    Suarez and his racist rantings got Kenny Dalglish the sack.

    Every time I see him I think of the N-word.

    Numbskull.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/263490/Luis-Suarez-is-a-Numpty-for-the-record/
    Theo Filippo
    Theo Filippo
     
     


    Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
    Posts : 21636
    Age : 30

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Theo Filippo Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:48 pm

    rofl
    El Jefe
    El Jefe
     
     


    Formerly known as : Jay
    Posts : 10657
    Location : In the hall, already, on the wall, already
    Supports : Pixie Lott's Legs

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by El Jefe Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:06 pm

    This is so boring
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:10 am

    I think Suarez is getting to some people.
    Jorlung
    Jorlung
     
     


    Posts : 5285
    Age : 92
    Location : Canada
    Supports : TFC

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Jorlung Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:32 am

    Alan wrote:
    Laurencio wrote:

    To use racist language is to use a tool designed to demean, dehumanize and demonize a specific group of people on the basis of their perceived skin colour, nationality or other origin related aspects of a person. It is a method used in warfare to train soldiers to regard the enemy as something else than them to make it easier for them to kill. Racist language promotes the view of a certain group of people being different, not being human but a "*insert any derogatory term here*". Why would you use language that is most commonly used in warfare to help soldiers kill in any peaceful situation? Racist language may seem innocent at first, but simply by looking at the persecution of Jews in Europe among other historical persecutions, you see a shift in time from simply referring to someone as "different" and using demonizing language, to murder, and eventually genocide. Only in the past 70 years we've seen it repeated in Germany, in Russia, in Cambodia, in Rwanda, in Darfur, in the US, in South Africa, in Serbia, and more.

    So you tell me, should we simply ignore it once again, as we always do and have done for thousands of years? Or should we actually try to get rid of it considering we have thousands of years of history and of empiric evidence that shows more or less conclusively that this type of language almost always ends in genocide, lobsided wars, and mass murder?

    Absolutley not ive never said we should ignore it, far from it. I just find it strange that people can sing and chant other things like about killing people and other things, and it does not seem to be a big issue. Laughing
    Do you honestly believe that United fans everywhere are going to kill every person who cuts then off in a hallway?
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:33 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:LUIS SUAREZ IS A NUMPTY FOR THE RECORD

    LUIS SUAREZ claims the FA and English football in general are in Manchester United’s pockets.

    The chipmunk-faced striker believes this is why he got an eight-match FA ban for repeatedly racially abusing Patrice Evra.

    This, obviously, is the same Old Trafford-controlled FA who handed out record eight-month suspensions to Rio Ferdinand (for missing a drugs test) and Eric Cantona (for drop-kicking a racist thug).

    Suarez and his racist rantings got Kenny Dalglish the sack.

    Every time I see him I think of the N-word.

    Numbskull.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/263490/Luis-Suarez-is-a-Numpty-for-the-record/
    And this is professional writing? I have a good shout then.
    Laurencio
    Laurencio
     
     


    Posts : 8730
    Age : 36
    Location : La Paz, Bolivia
    Supports : Rosenborg, ManUtd

    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Laurencio Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:08 am

    Eternal Witcher wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:LUIS SUAREZ IS A NUMPTY FOR THE RECORD

    LUIS SUAREZ claims the FA and English football in general are in Manchester United’s pockets.

    The chipmunk-faced striker believes this is why he got an eight-match FA ban for repeatedly racially abusing Patrice Evra.

    This, obviously, is the same Old Trafford-controlled FA who handed out record eight-month suspensions to Rio Ferdinand (for missing a drugs test) and Eric Cantona (for drop-kicking a racist thug).

    Suarez and his racist rantings got Kenny Dalglish the sack.

    Every time I see him I think of the N-word.

    Numbskull.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/263490/Luis-Suarez-is-a-Numpty-for-the-record/
    And this is professional writing? I have a good shout then.


    It's the daily star. Professionalism is not exactly a trait they tend to look for.

    Sponsored content


    Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row - Page 3 Empty Re: Deluded Conspiracy Nut Suarez reopens Evra Race Row

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Nov 26, 2024 9:58 am