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Mouse
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Cornholio
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    Top 100 Youngsters in 2000

    AriseForLife
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    Post by AriseForLife Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:47 am

    Mal wrote:So these lot are with the likes of Iniesta, Ibrahimovic and Roberto Carlos. :

    30. Jermaine DeFoe (STR, West Ham United)
    42. Joaquin Sanchez (L/WNG, Real Betis)
    43. Diego Ribas (AM, Santos)
    100. Alexander Hleb (AM, Stuttgart)


    Top 100 Youngsters in 2000 - Page 2 70955

    Prior to leaving Real Betis, Joaquin was one of the best wingers on the planet and many clubs wanted him. He didn't really dip until he join Valencia and started getting hurt a lot.

    Scuba Steve wrote:
    And so if Henry was in this list, he would have been listed as a right winger Rolling Eyes

    No because Henry only played wing until 1999 and if this list is for the 2000s he would have already been playing striker for half a year.
    Scuba Steve
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    Post by Scuba Steve Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:15 am

    AriseForLife wrote:
    Scuba Steve wrote:
    And so if Henry was in this list, he would have been listed as a right winger Rolling Eyes

    No because Henry only played wing until 1999 and if this list is for the 2000s he would have already been playing striker for half a year.

    So sorry. Let me get my hypothetical absolutely correct, so that it will pass inspection.

    If, in 1996, at the age of 19 (the same age Gareth Barry was in 200),Thierry Henry was on a list of the top 100 young footballers, he would have been listed as a winger, much in the same way the Barry was listed as a left back in 2000.

    I think that clears it up?
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    Post by Guest Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:24 am

    5. Jermaine Pennant (R/WNG, Arsenal) rofl
    41. Ahmed 'Mido' Hossam (STR/LWNG, Ajax) rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
    95. Kaka (AM, Sao Paulo) Neutral

    Well fine, Mido was actually good back then. But look at him now. Laughing
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    Post by chiboygeorge Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:52 am

    D'Allesandro should be red, hands down.
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    Post by Guest Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:14 am

    Donovan has made it better than Gareth Barry?


    Donovan plays for LA Galaxy and flopped for Bayern and did well at an Everton side that wasn't doing good so he looked better than reality.


    Gareth Barry - 1st team regular for England. Was first team regular + captain at Villa, Liverpool wanted him as a replacement for Alonso and then he moved to Man City and is first team there.



    And Jaoquin, has he really made it? Really... Same with Hleb.
    Mario
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    Post by Mario Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:16 am

    How can you doubt Joaquin? He was one of the best on his day..Been a bit *** lately but he has his reasons.
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    Post by Guest Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:17 am

    iPepe wrote:How can you doubt Joaquin? He was one of the best on his day..Been a bit *** lately but he has his reasons.


    Been rubbish at Valencia most of the time. You can't judge a player when he played for a smaller club, just like Hleb. Went from Arsenal to Barca and flopped.
    Mario
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    Post by Mario Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:19 am

    then VDV didn't make it either.....

    And Betis weren't really a small club back then.
    Mal
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    Post by Mal Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:19 am

    AriseForLife wrote:
    Mal wrote:So these lot are with the likes of Iniesta, Ibrahimovic and Roberto Carlos. :

    30. Jermaine DeFoe (STR, West Ham United)
    42. Joaquin Sanchez (L/WNG, Real Betis)
    43. Diego Ribas (AM, Santos)
    100. Alexander Hleb (AM, Stuttgart)


    Top 100 Youngsters in 2000 - Page 2 70955

    Prior to leaving Real Betis, Joaquin was one of the best wingers on the planet and many clubs wanted him. He didn't really dip until he join Valencia and started getting hurt a lot.

    Scuba Steve wrote:
    And so if Henry was in this list, he would have been listed as a right winger Rolling Eyes

    No because Henry only played wing until 1999 and if this list is for the 2000s he would have already been playing striker for half a year.

    My point is Joaquin is and never has been on the level of the likes of Iniesta.
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    Post by Guest Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:21 am

    iPepe wrote:then VDV didn't make it either.....

    And Betis weren't really a small club back then.


    They where a smaller club than Valencia. And you could say VDV hasn't made it... yet. Although last season at Real he did play really well. VDV is proving now he is a top player though... Playing in the best league in the world and the best cup competition in the world.

    If Jaoquin comes out and starts playing like he did at Betis then you can say he made it, but at this point in time he hasn't.
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    Post by Scuba Steve Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:24 am

    Average Everton side? Laughing The same team that drew at Emirates against Arsenal, and beat United and Chelsea at Goodison? It was no coincidence that those three results came during Donovan's stint with Everton.

    You must also be forgetting his award for the Best Young Player at the 2002 World Cup.
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    Post by Guest Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:26 am

    Scuba Steve wrote:Average Everton side? Laughing The same team that drew at Emirates against Arsenal, and beat United and Chelsea at Goodison? It was no coincidence that those three results came during Donovan's stint with Everton.

    You must also be forgetting his award for the Best Young Player at the 2002 World Cup.

    Go check how Everton started the season and you'll know why they are average.
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    Post by Scuba Steve Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:30 am

    That's called under performing.

    EDIT

    And by saying that Everton were an average team, then you are saying that Donovan is THAT much better since they were able to run off all those results during his time there. So you are going against your own argument there.
    Grenade
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    Post by Grenade Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:11 am

    Tbh Everton probably would have finished in the same position in the league with our without Donovon. I dont think he would even start for them with a full fit squad.

    I dont know why you are pointing out those 3 result against the big teams anyway... Are you trying to suggest Donvon got them those results ?
    AriseForLife
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    Post by AriseForLife Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:36 pm

    Mal wrote:
    My point is Joaquin is and never has been on the level of the likes of Iniesta.

    First I would like to know why in the hell you are even mentioning Joaquin and Andres in a comparison. They don't play the same position and Joaquin has NEVER had anywhere near the amount of talent around him that Andres has had.

    You're comparing a central midfielder to a winger/forward which is completely pointless to do.
    AriseForLife
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    Post by AriseForLife Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:37 pm

    Scuba Steve wrote:
    So sorry. Let me get my hypothetical absolutely correct, so that it will pass inspection.

    If, in 1996, at the age of 19 (the same age Gareth Barry was in 200),Thierry Henry was on a list of the top 100 young footballers, he would have been listed as a winger, much in the same way the Barry was listed as a left back in 2000.

    I think that clears it up?

    I wasn't quoting you to be snippy, I was just correcting you is all in case you didn't know.
    Cornholio
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    Post by Cornholio Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:48 pm

    Fucking sick of this don't play in the same position bollocks in this circumstance.

    The debate is over who is the better player.

    If you're going to say who's better, Messi or McShane you're going to say Messi. It's fucking clear to see. The question is not who is the better attacker it's who is the better footballer.

    Mal is saying he doesn't believe Joaquin has ever been on the same level as Iniesta. Well Iniesta can be world class, he doesn't think Joaquin could be. Tell me what the fuck position has to do with that?


    Honestly, have you been keeping this WUM act up for so long, because if you have then I doth my cap to you because you're very good.
    Cornholio
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    Post by Cornholio Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:53 pm

    Going to cover all fronts now because I'm going bed.

    Before you say Messi scores goals blah blah blah. The same can be said for Vidic and Earnshaw. Who's the better player?

    Next point:

    When it comes to voting for player of the year and the managers get a shortlist of say: Torres, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Vidic, Terry. Do the managers refuse to vote because they all play different positions so it's impossible to tell who's been the better player over the course of the season?

    No.


    I'm sick of everyone using this shite when saying who is the better player.
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    Post by Torresxvilla Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:54 pm

    If Cisse "made it", Baros and Heitinga haven't done too poorly...with the Heitinga recently participating in the World Cup final.

    Obviously all 100 were not going to become superstars, if that's what you are implying.
    AriseForLife
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    Post by AriseForLife Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:34 pm

    Ryan wrote:Fucking sick of this don't play in the same position bollocks in this circumstance.

    The debate is over who is the better player.

    If you're going to say who's better, Messi or McShane you're going to say Messi. It's fucking clear to see. The question is not who is the better attacker it's who is the better footballer.

    Mal is saying he doesn't believe Joaquin has ever been on the same level as Iniesta. Well Iniesta can be world class, he doesn't think Joaquin could be. Tell me what the fuck position has to do with that?


    Honestly, have you been keeping this WUM act up for so long, because if you have then I doth my cap to you because you're very good.

    I realize the debate is better player, but how the hell can you compare a player (Andres) whose role is VASTLY different than a winger (Joaquin). That's like saying lets compare Paul Scholes to Iker Casillas and determine who is the better player.

    Positions mean everything when you are comparing players because different positions meant different functions on the field. Their positions require different skills sets which person A might say he is awesome and person B could say he is garbage. Point is that a central midfielder is going to use a short passing game a hell of a lot more than a winger and a winger is going to use a long game/crossing a lot more than a central midfielder. Someone could say that Andres is terrible at one and great at another and vice versa with Joaquin. While at Betis he was one of the most coveted and feared players in La Primera, and to be honest Andres is not a player that people fear. Teams fear Messi and Xavi, not Andres.

    Joaquin is world class there is no debating that. A player doesn't just stop being world class. He hasn't been the same player at Valencia as he was at Betis because he is never healthy. Secondly Iniesta has so much talent around him it makes him look a helluva lot better than he really is. Too many people think Andres is this world class virtuoso and I just don't buy it and never will. He is a quality player, but with someone like Xavi there to partner you, I could also look world class.

    I have no idea what WUM means so I have no idea what you are talking about.


    Last edited by AriseForLife on Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Torresxvilla Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:37 pm

    AriseForLife wrote:
    Ryan wrote:Fucking sick of this don't play in the same position bollocks in this circumstance.

    The debate is over who is the better player.

    If you're going to say who's better, Messi or McShane you're going to say Messi. It's fucking clear to see. The question is not who is the better attacker it's who is the better footballer.

    Mal is saying he doesn't believe Joaquin has ever been on the same level as Iniesta. Well Iniesta can be world class, he doesn't think Joaquin could be. Tell me what the fuck position has to do with that?


    Honestly, have you been keeping this WUM act up for so long, because if you have then I doth my cap to you because you're very good.

    I realize the debate is better player, but how the hell can you compare a player (Andres) whose role is VASTLY different than a winger (Joaquin). That's like saying lets compare Paul Scholes to Iker Casillas and determine who is the better player.

    Positions mean everything when you are comparing players because different positions meant different functions on the field. Joaquin is world class there is no debating that. A player doesn't just stop being world class. He hasn't been the same player at Valencia as he was at Betis because he is never healthy. Secondly Iniesta has so much talent around him it makes him look a helluva lot better than he really is. Too many people think Andres is this world class virtuoso and I just don't buy it and never will. He is a quality player, but with someone like Xavi there to partner you, I could also look world class.

    I have no idea what WUM means so I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Iniesta is to Joaquin, as Scholes as to Casillas?

    No...more like Scholes as to Giggs.

    I agree that they are different players though.

    Joaquin was arguably one of Spain's best wingers back at Betis.
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    Post by AriseForLife Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:38 pm

    Torresxvilla wrote:

    Iniesta is to Joaquin, as Scholes as to Casillas?

    No...more like Scholes as to Giggs.

    I agree that they are different players though.

    Joaquin was arguably one of Spain's best wingers back at Betis.

    I was just throwing out two completely different positions when I said compare Scholes to Casillas. Trying to point out that comparing two different positions does matter when comparing players.
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    Post by Scuba Steve Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:04 pm

    AriseForLife wrote:
    Scuba Steve wrote:
    So sorry. Let me get my hypothetical absolutely correct, so that it will pass inspection.

    If, in 1996, at the age of 19 (the same age Gareth Barry was in 200),Thierry Henry was on a list of the top 100 young footballers, he would have been listed as a winger, much in the same way the Barry was listed as a left back in 2000.

    I think that clears it up?

    I wasn't quoting you to be snippy, I was just correcting you is all in case you didn't know.

    And I was pointing out the obvious. Problem?
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    Post by Guest Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:48 pm

    Polska, you're so anti-English it's on the verge of racism. Somebody ban this fool.
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    Post by Pippo Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:51 pm

    forestfcfan wrote:Polska, you're so anti-English it's on the verge of racism. Somebody ban this fool.

    Disagree.

    I like talking about the Extrakalasa.
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    Post by Cadbury Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:52 pm

    Milan Baros is a beast in Turkey. Let's boycott the poll Neutral
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    Post by Chamakh29 Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:32 am

    Here's one from The Sun in 2008:

    "Ones to Watch in 2008"

    1. Sergio Aguero
    2. Ever Banega
    3. Karim Benzema
    4. Breno
    5. Macauley Chrisantus
    6. Denilson
    7. Lorenzo De Silvestre
    8. Franco Di Santo
    9. Giovani Dos Santos
    10. Stevan Jovetic
    11. Bojan Krkic
    12. Toni Kroos
    13. Lucas Leiva
    14. Lulinha
    15. Alexandre Pato
    16. Gerard Pique
    17. Ivan Rakitic
    18. Adel Taarabt
    19. Carlos Vela
    20. Theo Walcott
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    Post by Cornholio Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:41 am

    AriseForLife wrote:
    Ryan wrote:Fucking sick of this don't play in the same position bollocks in this circumstance.

    The debate is over who is the better player.

    If you're going to say who's better, Messi or McShane you're going to say Messi. It's fucking clear to see. The question is not who is the better attacker it's who is the better footballer.

    Mal is saying he doesn't believe Joaquin has ever been on the same level as Iniesta. Well Iniesta can be world class, he doesn't think Joaquin could be. Tell me what the fuck position has to do with that?


    Honestly, have you been keeping this WUM act up for so long, because if you have then I doth my cap to you because you're very good.

    I realize the debate is better player, but how the hell can you compare a player (Andres) whose role is VASTLY different than a winger (Joaquin). That's like saying lets compare Paul Scholes to Iker Casillas and determine who is the better player.

    Positions mean everything when you are comparing players because different positions meant different functions on the field. Their positions require different skills sets which person A might say he is awesome and person B could say he is garbage. Point is that a central midfielder is going to use a short passing game a hell of a lot more than a winger and a winger is going to use a long game/crossing a lot more than a central midfielder. Someone could say that Andres is terrible at one and great at another and vice versa with Joaquin. While at Betis he was one of the most coveted and feared players in La Primera, and to be honest Andres is not a player that people fear. Teams fear Messi and Xavi, not Andres.

    Joaquin is world class there is no debating that. A player doesn't just stop being world class. He hasn't been the same player at Valencia as he was at Betis because he is never healthy. Secondly Iniesta has so much talent around him it makes him look a helluva lot better than he really is. Too many people think Andres is this world class virtuoso and I just don't buy it and never will. He is a quality player, but with someone like Xavi there to partner you, I could also look world class.

    I have no idea what WUM means so I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Once again, not comparing. Just saying who is the better player by WHAT THEY HAVE DONE OVER THEIR CAREER. It really isn't hard to understand. I like how you took my example and put Scholes and Casillas because it's difficult to say who's the better player. You're a wum.


    And here's another point for my case.

    Imagine you're having a kick around with your mates, you say two captains pick faces. (You have played the game before, yes?) The captain doesn't start comparing peoples crossing ability and whatnot, he picks the best player.
    When I was in school we had a defender who played for a League 2 YT and a goalkeeper who played for Leicester's YT. The keeper would be picked first everytime and noone ever has a keeper as their first pick. He was the better player and had been scouted by a better team because of it.


    So once again, you can't win. You can only change words to comparing attributes. NOT what is going on.
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    Post by Cornholio Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:59 am

    And just to put this to bed.

    Here's what used to be a very popular football blog. They did a thing where they picked the best 32 players of the world cup and put them head to head in a world cup format to see who would be the best player. There's not arguments of them playing in different positions because it's just stupid.

    http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/opinion/6143/the_best_player-7.html

    http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/liverpool/6185/the_best_player.html (Gerrard vs Terry)
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    Post by Mouse Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:52 am

    Chamakh29 wrote:Here's one from The Sun in 2008:

    "Ones to Watch in 2008"

    1. Sergio Aguero
    2. Ever Banega
    3. Karim Benzema
    4. Breno
    5. Macauley Chrisantus
    6. Denilson
    7. Lorenzo De Silvestre
    8. Franco Di Santo
    9. Giovani Dos Santos
    10. Stevan Jovetic
    11. Bojan Krkic
    12. Toni Kroos
    13. Lucas Leiva
    14. Lulinha
    15. Alexandre Pato
    16. Gerard Pique
    17. Ivan Rakitic
    18. Adel Taarabt
    19. Carlos Vela
    20. Theo Walcott

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