Does English football have a massive racism problem?

I have brought this up before on the previous forum, when people were talking about how it was great that Martin O'Neill was bringing British lads through at Aston Villa, and criticising Wenger for having a lot of foreigners, but it got bogged down in semantics. On this occasion, I want to be clear - by racism, I mean racism based on nationality, which, in employment, is an applicable definition according to the government of the United Kingdom.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ResolvingWorkplaceDisputes/DiscriminationAtWork/DG_10026667

This issue has again reared it's ugly head with the likes of Wayne Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Brian Barwick (a man who really should know better) and many others, including The Playmaker's resident BNP member, Lux, to express the need for the FA to discriminate against non-English and non-British candidates for one of the most highly paid positions in English football. I'm sure I am not the only one who sees this behaviour as completely unacceptable - positions in employment, especially positions of power, should be given on merit and ability to do the job, not nationality, but nobody seems willing to condemn this ostensibly illegal discrimination.

You get this with the likes of Arsene Wenger as well, he has been criticised for years for bringing through the best players available to him, rather than bringing through English players, when in reality, he was just being fair. We see now with the likes of Ramsey, Wilshere, Oxlade Chamberlain and Walcott that he is perfectly happy to bring through English players, only discriminating on the basis of talent and/or effectiveness, much like he did with Ashley Cole.

English football's chief racist on the other hand, is praised for showing faith in English players like Stewart Downing, Jordan Henderson and Andrew Carroll, even though they are all shit, he is also praised for giving the side an 'English spine' and so on. Not only is this poor management, it's also discriminatory and illegal - apparently it is still acceptable though.

Not exactly racism, xenophobia if anything.

Nice, subtle trolling.

It's not just English football. It's England.

But I don't think it's a bad thing to prefer to have players from England. That's not racism, that's just eventually improving your national team.

Racism is everywhere, not just football.

ahlycotc wrote:It's not just English football. It's England.

But I don't think it's a bad thing to prefer to have players from England. That's not racism, that's just eventually improving your national team.

It's England, and you would know, right, cos you've been here before..

Cam wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:It's not just English football. It's England.

But I don't think it's a bad thing to prefer to have players from England. That's not racism, that's just eventually improving your national team.

It's England, and you would know, right, cos you've been here before..

There is a massive racism problem in England.

ahlycotc wrote:It's not just English football. It's England.

But I don't think it's a bad thing to prefer to have players from England. That's not racism, that's just eventually improving your national team.

Alright, there's racism in other areas, but it's not acceptable in any other area.

Scott wrote:Nice, subtle trolling.

Where?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:It's not just English football. It's England.

But I don't think it's a bad thing to prefer to have players from England. That's not racism, that's just eventually improving your national team.

Alright, there's racism in other areas, but it's not acceptable in any other area.

That is very true. I think that the main reason that racism is in football is because many fans would call racism, banter.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Scott wrote:Nice, subtle trolling.

Where?

Last paragraph. England's chief racist .. Downing, Carroll and Henderson shit ..

Scott wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Where?

Last paragraph. England's chief racist .. Downing, Carroll and Henderson shit ..

It's his opinion, to be fair.

Scott wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Where?

Last paragraph. England's chief racist .. Downing, Carroll and Henderson shit ..

Well it's true, isn't it? A lot of Liverpool fans even admit they're shit. And as for England's chief racist, that's probably accurate as well - I can't think of anyone else in English football who has ever come out in such strong support of a guy found guilty of racial abuse.

Scott wrote:Nice, subtle trolling.

I wouldn't even call it that. Pathetic

Bloody hell... Tiring much?

You do know the OP has nothing to do with racism.

Jord wrote:

Scott wrote:Nice, subtle trolling.

I wouldn't even call it that. Pathetic

This.

RR could be a good member and make good threads if it wasn't for this obsession he has with liverpool.

People still getting worked up over the terminology. It's like that first paragraph doesn't exist.

NZG wrote:

Jord wrote:I wouldn't even call it that. Pathetic

This.

RR could be a good member and make good threads if it wasn't for this obsession he has with liverpool.

Umm...what he says about Liverpool isn't entirely false.

Glen Damon wrote:

NZG wrote:

This.

RR could be a good member and make good threads if it wasn't for this obsession he has with liverpool.

Umm...what he says about Liverpool isn't entirely false.

That's not the point though is it? Knew as soon as I saw your name that your post would be something like this. Also pathetic.

Obviously, but it isn't just football and it isn't just racism. It's the whole country and discrimination in general. Not much can be done when the power's are discriminating. All this "foreign people are taking our jobs", no they fucking aren't... It's that a lot of English people are just lazy fucks and use that excuse to justify them being lazy fucks.

Scott wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Where?

Last paragraph. England's chief racist .. Downing, Carroll and Henderson shit ..

It's true though.

I agree with RR through and through. Honestly it's the most sense I've ever seen him make. It does my nuts in how xenophobic football fans and managers can be, I understand if you don't want people to poach youngsters by offering them bigger fees etc. but if you get a youngster, he should get a fair chance no matter what his nationality is.

Another thing that really proved how stupid some people can be, I was talking to a Liverpool, at around July-August time, fan who was trying to A) justify the Andy Carroll purchase and B) convince me the Downing signing was a better signing that the Mata signing for Chelsea.

A) He was telling me how £35 million for "England's best young striker" is perfectly reasonable. Just because he's English.

B) Downing was a better signing, even though Mata is the better footballer, Downing is English hence making him a better signing.

Quite laughable. I'm not singling out Liverpool nor am I trying to wind people up, but Liverpool are just a good example.

If you want to have players to have be trained at your club from a young age to develop your footballing persona, or to gain financial stability, or both, more power to you, that is what clubs should strive to do. But picking one player over another for anything other than his footballing ability or his attitude towards the sport is backwards and wrong.

Jord wrote:

Glen Damon wrote:Umm...what he says about Liverpool isn't entirely false.

That's not the point though is it? Knew as soon as I saw your name that your post would be something like this. Also pathetic.

What is the point, then? If what he says is right, then why do you say it is pathetic?

Glen Damon wrote:

Jord wrote:That's not the point though is it? Knew as soon as I saw your name that your post would be something like this. Also pathetic.

What is the point, then? If what he says is right, then why do you say it is pathetic?

No I disagree with what you say. But the fact that he's right or wrong doesn't refer to whether or not he's trolling.

I'm making a serious point, and using examples to support it. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities.

Jord, have you ever thought about ignoring the parts of the post you don't like and respond only to be the bits you think are valid in your eyes. Pretty easy.

Anyway I mistook the title of the thread for the question, and voted no.

-Can foreign players play for England? Possibly...but in most cases they either can't, or wouldn't want to.

-Can English players? Yes.

-Does giving English players an opportunity help the national team? Yes.

-Does this mean that foreign players are not given an opportunity to work? Not really....you don't apply to be a player at a club (usually, anyway). The club finds it's own players that it wants. No football player can say "I should be allowed to play for Man Utd...if the manager won't buy me then it's racism". . Football doesn't work like that, and that has nothing to do with racism. Even if managers would prefer to sign English players that doesn't mean that foreign players won't be wanted and signed. If there was actually a lack of opportunity for these foreign players I'd be more sympathetic of your argument...but there really isn't. We have a very low level of English players and managers in top level English football.

-So ultimately....this is the same "positive" discrimination that is actively and publicly praised on a regular and high scale basis for every other nationality/race other than white British. So....a bit of a double standard to say the least....to unjustifiably give foreign people or minorities an upper hand (or even more in most cases i.e. absolutely NO opportunity for anyone except the specific nationality/minority).....but not do the same for English players, even when it has nothing to do with race, even when there is a justifiable and reasonable explanation i.e. to improve the national team?....even when other nationalities and races are still given an opportunity?

But no.....of course not. I'm Mr BNP

Jord wrote:

Glen Damon wrote:Umm...what he says about Liverpool isn't entirely false.

That's not the point though is it? Knew as soon as I saw your name that your post would be something like this. Also pathetic.

Friend, Liverpool are actually a good example of it because they spent the same amount that Barca spent on Villa and Fabregas but they got Carroll, Downing and Henderson. How what justified their price tags?

In the case of Villa and Cesc, their world class talent.

Answer me this Jord, Carroll, Henderson and Downing, are they world class talent?

Lux wrote:

What are you laughing about, BNP member?

The Bat-Man wrote:

Jord wrote:That's not the point though is it? Knew as soon as I saw your name that your post would be something like this. Also pathetic.

Friend, Liverpool are actually a good example of it because they spent the same amount that Barca spent on Villa and Fabregas but they got Carroll, Downing and Henderson. How what justified their price tags?

In the case of Villa and Cesc, their world class talent.

Answer me this Jord, Carroll, Henderson and Downing, are they world class talent?

No they are not. Henderson will keep improving though.