Mr John Terry

Fonseca wrote:

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:Kick racism out of football is a hypocritical and flawed organisation. Preaching a rhetoric of education and rational morales, whilst imploring criminal sanctions....

Really? REALLY? how do you know this?

Have you ever heard a spokesperson speak? They contradict themselves at every opportunity.

Laurencio wrote:I understand your reasons, but politics are not just, and this case is all about politics. The England captaincy is all about politics. It would be bad for the FA to maintain Terry as captain if he is shown to be guilty of racism, that would reflect poorly on them. Bad politics basically.

This might be the way it is, but I'm completely against this. The England captaincy should be about football, and the FA should want to promote justice and democracy, and should not get a bad reputation for doing so. In fact, by not doing so they would lose respect from me and many people. Perhaps not in the media but that's politics for you.

Laurencio wrote:
Racism is civil disobedience by the letter of the law. I don't see the problem with it being taken to court.

I don't really consider what Terry has supposedly done as badly as actual racism, I.E. actual discrimination....not just words which don't do any real harm. If you fire someone because of their colour then that's discrimination....but is calling someone a "Black cunt"? No...and tbh even if Terry was found guilty I wouldn't do anything. Terry works with and is friends with many people of different racists...I don't think he's racist and saying "Black cunt" doesn't make me think differently.

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:

Laurencio wrote:
Racism is civil disobedience by the letter of the law. I don't see the problem with it being taken to court.

Im saying it shouldn't be against the law... Not that it actually isnt.

You're a spasticated Geordie who can't speak English and neither can the best thing to come out of Newcastle, Cheryl Tweedy

You think stuff like that sentence shouldn't be against the law? what?

I agree with Lux... Racism for me is if someone discriminanted against you because of your colour.. I.e. You couldnt get a job, or weren't allowed into a particular restaurant. Not calling someone a black so and so...

Fonseca wrote:

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:
Im saying it shouldn't be against the law... Not that it actually isnt.

You're a spasticated Geordie who can't speak English and neither can the best thing to come out of Newcastle, Cheryl Tweedy

You think stuff like that sentence shouldn't be against the law? what?

IRONY CLAXON... Deary me

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:

Fonseca wrote:

Really? REALLY? how do you know this?

Have you ever heard a spokesperson speak? They contradict themselves at every opportunity.

*Citation needed*

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Specifically it's against racist behaviour, which is what Suarez has been found guilty of and what Terry is facing a criminal prosecution over. It's not beside the point whether he did it or not, not at all.

Whether he did it or not is beside the point for two reasons that I've already stated.

-You don't know whether he did it or not, so you shouldn't assume he's guilty...and he definitely shouldn't be punished. (until after the case)
-It's not racist behaviour, and Suarez's case wasn't either.

Fonseca wrote:

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:
Have you ever heard a spokesperson speak? They contradict themselves at every opportunity.

*Citation needed*

*Intelligence required*

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:

Fonseca wrote:

*Citation needed*

*Intelligence required*

Are you mentally challenged or something? Serious question

Lux wrote:

Laurencio wrote:I understand your reasons, but politics are not just, and this case is all about politics. The England captaincy is all about politics. It would be bad for the FA to maintain Terry as captain if he is shown to be guilty of racism, that would reflect poorly on them. Bad politics basically.

This might be the way it is, but I'm completely against this. The England captaincy should be about football, and the FA should want to promote justice and democracy, and should not get a bad reputation for doing so. In fact, by not doing so they would lose respect from me and many people. Perhaps not in the media but that's politics for you.

Being made look like hypocrtical bigots in front of Europe, going against "kick it out". Having Terry stand in front of a "kick it out" banner while swearing an oath that he and no other players will muddle the game through racism, while all the while being on trial for exactly that.

That's some really bad PR.

Laurencio wrote:
Racism is civil disobedience by the letter of the law. I don't see the problem with it being taken to court.

I don't really consider what Terry has supposedly done as badly as actual racism, I.E. actual discrimination....not just words which don't do any real harm. If fire someone because of their colour then that's discrimination....but is calling someone a "Black cunt"? No...and tbh even if Terry was found guilty I wouldn't do anything. Terry works with and is friends with many people of different racists...I don't think he's racist and saying "Black cunt" doesn't make me think differently.

Refering to race as an insult is considered racism. "black cunt" specifically targets his skin colour.

We are discussing racism in a perfectly rational fashion... I know what!!! Lets make some bold assumptions about your character relevant to your place of birth!! Exactly the same ideologies that constitute racism. Class.

Fonseca wrote:

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:
*Intelligence required*

Are you mentally challenged or something? Serious question

Im done speaking to you

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:We are discussing racism in a perfectly rational fashion... I know what!!! Lets make some bold assumptions about your character relevant to your place of birth!! Exactly the same ideologies that constitute racism. Class.

Who did that?

Fonseca wrote:

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:We are discussing racism in a perfectly rational fashion... I know what!!! Lets make some bold assumptions about your character relevant to your place of birth!! Exactly the same ideologies that constitutes racism. Class.

Who did that?

You're a spasticated Geordie who can't speak English and neither can the best thing to come out of Newcastle, Cheryl Tweedy

Yoru desire to conform to the general populus is evidently greater than your respect for the objective facts. Im off now. Love ya xx

Why did you miss my explanation of my example? Are you actually serious?

Laurencio wrote:Being made look like hypocrtical bigots in front of Europe, going against "kick it out". Having Terry stand in front of a "kick it out" banner while swearing an oath that he and no other players will muddle the game through racism, while all the while being on trial for exactly that.

That's some really bad PR.

For me, less so than if he is found not guilty and he is not only kicked out of the EURO's, but also further having his reputation tarnished and being humiliated. Also like I've said, I don't think it's hypocritical for Terry to stand in front of a "kick it out" banner...simply because he most probably is against racism....and even if you didn't agree with that he is innocent until proven guilty.

Laurencio wrote:Refering to race as an insult is considered racism. "black cunt" specifically targets his skin colour.

Can't say that I entirely agree. I can call a friend of mine a "Chinese squinty guy" and not be racist.

Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.

Where is the discrimination? Saying something to him but doing nothing else is not discrimination.

Racism isn't illegal, it's impossible to make racism illegal. Racial abuse is illegal.

Lux wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Specifically it's against racist behaviour, which is what Suarez has been found guilty of and what Terry is facing a criminal prosecution over. It's not beside the point whether he did it or not, not at all.

Whether he did it or not is beside the point for two reasons that I've already stated.

-You don't know whether he did it or not, so you shouldn't assume he's guilty...and he definitely shouldn't be punished. (until after the case)
-It's not racist behaviour, and Suarez's case wasn't either.

Why shouldn't I come to the conclusion that he is guilty based on the evidence?

What, kicking someone because they are black isn't racist? Calling someone a black cunt isn't racist? Do me a fucking favour.

Big Lad Pardew claims racist comments should be allowed - lol nothing to say to that
Big Lad Pardew claims Kick Racism Out of Football contradicts itself - provides no facts
Big Lad Pardew then claims Fonseca insulted him using an example which he refers to - obviously has difficulties reading

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Racism isn't illegal, it's impossible to make racism illegal. Racial abuse is illegal.

What? That's retarded.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Why shouldn't I come to the conclusion that he is guilty based on the evidence?

Do you happen to know all the evidence magically? Been reading The Sun and think you're in the know?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:
What, kicking someone because they are black isn't racist? Calling someone a black cunt isn't racist? Do me a fucking favour.

Where has him kicking somebody because he's black come from? Is this about Suarez/Evra? ....I've seen the video and I didn't even think that Suarez kicked him....yet alone kicked him because he is black (which you can never prove).

Calling someone a black cunt isn't racist IMO, and I've said why. Not saying that it should be allowed or acceptable, but criminal? I don't think so. Kicking someone because they're black would be racist.

Lux wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:
What, kicking someone because they are black isn't racist? Calling someone a black cunt isn't racist? Do me a fucking favour.

Calling someone a black cunt isn't racist IMO, and I've said why. Not saying that it should be allowed or acceptable, but criminal? I don't think so. Kicking someone because they're black would be racist.

Whys someone referring to his colour? what's the point?

No actually answer this, what would I get from calling you a Watford boy?

Fonseca wrote:Whys someone referring to his colour? what's the point?

No actually answer this, what would I get from calling you a Watford boy?

Does it matter? What does anyone get from any insult? What's the point of any insult?

Would you be criminally charged and be axed from the England job for calling me a Watford boy? I might find it offensive, depending on your intention/interpretation of "Watford boy"...but that's beside the point.

It does matter because you can't see it but me and RR can so answer the question

What would I possibly gain from calling you a 'Watford boy' instead of a 'boy'

Lux wrote:

Laurencio wrote:Being made look like hypocrtical bigots in front of Europe, going against "kick it out". Having Terry stand in front of a "kick it out" banner while swearing an oath that he and no other players will muddle the game through racism, while all the while being on trial for exactly that.

That's some really bad PR.

For me, less so than if he is found not guilty and he is not only kicked out of the EURO's, but also further having his reputation tarnished and being humiliated. Also like I've said, I don't think it's hypocritical for Terry to stand in front of a "kick it out" banner...simply because he most probably is against racism....and even if you didn't agree with that he is innocent until proven guilty.

Tell that to investors and sponsors. What is hypocritical is that the FA go out strong against racism and have even gone out strongly against Sepp Blatter on his comments, but when it comes to their own house they simply "dismiss" it.

He is innocent until proven guilty, but that matters squat when it comes to politics, sponsorship and PR. England simply can not have Terry as the captain for the Euro without it coming back and biting them in the ass. He can probably be included in the squad, but certainly not as captain.

Laurencio wrote:Refering to race as an insult is considered racism. "black cunt" specifically targets his skin colour.

Can't say that I entirely agree. I can call a friend of mine a "Chinese squinty guy" and not be racist.

If you're insulting him while doing so, you are racially abusing him. What you think doesn't really matter when it comes to the law.

Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.

Where is the discrimination? Saying something to him but doing nothing else is not discrimination.

If you can not see how "fucking black cunt" is racism, then there is no hope of you understanding anything about anything regarded racism in the modern world.

Fonseca wrote:It does matter because you can't see it but me and RR can so answer the question

What would I possibly gain from calling you a 'Watford boy' instead of a 'boy'

Nothing? Still doesn't mean it's racial discrimination. You can't go around expecting people never to say anything about you in particular. If someone calls me tall should I be offended and have them arrested and get criminal charges brought against them? Like you said....if someone calls me a Watford boy what's going to happen? Nothing. Someone using description to define you doesn't have anything to do with racism, and whether it's an insult or not doesn't matter.....because insults are not illegal. If they then you'd probably be behind bars as a repeat offender. IMO, calling someone a retard is hardly different to calling them black, in fact it's probably worse. Yet that doesn't stop you calling people retards does it?

Lux wrote:

Fonseca wrote:It does matter because you can't see it but me and RR can so answer the question

What would I possibly gain from calling you a 'Watford boy' instead of a 'boy'

Nothing? Still doesn't mean it's racial discrimination. You can't go around expecting people never to say anything about you in particular. If someone calls me tall should I be offended and have them arrested and get criminal charges brought against them? Like you said....if someone calls me a Watford boy what's going to happen? Nothing. Someone using description to define you doesn't have anything to do with racism, and whether it's an insult or not doesn't matter.....because insults are not illegal. If they then you'd probably be behind bars as a repeat offender. IMO, calling someone a retard is hardly different to calling them black, in fact it's probably worse. Yet that doesn't stop you calling people retards does it?

Simple fact about norms and laws. They are all based on the society they are made in. If calling someone a black cunt is considered racist in that society, then all the logic and all the idealism in the world doesn't matter. It is unquestionably racist. You call a black person a "fucking black cunt" you will in almost all cases be considered to be racially abusing that person.

Calling someone "retard" simply means someone is slow. There is nothing inherintly racist or discriminating in that. This is about as stupid as the 30 rock example of the "idiot discrimination protest"

Laurencio wrote:You can not seriously be suggesting that the FA have so much pull with the courts that they somehow forced a delayed sentencing. Because from where I'm standing you seem to indicate that the FA have managed to interfere with the legal process, which would be a much bigger scandal than any racist claims.

Good job. You just figured out how corrupt the FA are.

Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.

Where is the discrimination? Saying something to him but doing nothing else is not discrimination.

Laurencio wrote:
If you can not see how "fucking black cunt" is racism, then there is no hope of you understanding anything about anything regarded racism in the modern world.

End of the day, I don't care about "the way it is". I won't base my beliefs and opinion on what others think....so what sponsors think is not relevant to me. Principles are more important, and if the FA had any balls then it would stand up for itself and what it should believe in.

"Fucking black cunt" is not necessarily racist. There could probably be a situation where it is, but by definition...on it's own...it's not. You can't mix up an insult with discrimination.....they are completely different things and to classify them as the same thing for me is an insult to all those who are actually discriminated against. If anything, I'd be more inclined to say that "Fucking black cunt" is closer to a general insult than racism.

Laurencio wrote:Simple fact about norms and laws. They are all based on the society they are made in. If calling someone a black cunt is considered racist in that society, then all the logic and all the idealism in the world doesn't matter. It is unquestionably racist. You call a black person a "fucking black cunt" you will in almost all cases be considered to be racially abusing that person.

Calling someone "retard" simply means someone is slow. There is nothing inherintly racist or discriminating in that. This is about as stupid as the 30 rock example of the "idiot discrimination protest"

Fuck that.

Also calling someone a retard in an insulting way is offensive to people who are in some way actually "retarded", even if that's not the word they or society would not use these days. It's as bad as insulting someone and using their colour for emphasis/generally. If you don't know that then you obviously shouldn't be making arguments about society/racism. Basically sums up just how much racism is blown out of proportion (even when it's not racism) when every other kind of discrimination/offensive insult to a group of people is not considered as important.

Lu❣s Suarez wrote:

Laurencio wrote:You can not seriously be suggesting that the FA have so much pull with the courts that they somehow forced a delayed sentencing. Because from where I'm standing you seem to indicate that the FA have managed to interfere with the legal process, which would be a much bigger scandal than any racist claims.

Good job. You just figured out how corrupt the FA are.

You just accused the British justice system of being corrupt.

Laurencio wrote:

Lus Suarez wrote:Good job. You just figured out how corrupt the FA are.

You just accused the British justice system of being corrupt.

Every administrative body is corrupt. I thought everyone knew this.