Mr Leiva wrote:ahlycotc wrote:
Not in my eyes. To others, Osama could be getting the same commemoration. What's stopping them from commemorating his death?
What nation will officially remember Bin Ladin's death?
ahlycotc wrote:Lux wrote:It is about remembering those who sacrificed their lives for their country, freedom, w/e.
I don't see how this could offend anyone. Surely the Germans honour those who died for their country too?............. Even if they didn't, they know we do whether it's on a football shirt or not.
I don't think anyone is offended by England's remembrance, it's just that down the road, someone else can do something similar that would offend someone.
ahlycotc wrote:Laurencio wrote:
So... basically... the poppy to commemorate fallen soldiers of the bloodiest war in Europe is the equivalent to hailing a dead leader of a group convicted and wanted for mass murder in all 4 corners of the world? What next, are you going to compare the way Christian players cross themselves when entering the pitch to a nazi salute?
Not in my eyes. To others, Osama could be getting the same commemoration. What's stopping them from commemorating his death?
mauro=beast wrote:eh osama is a bad example. already people are talking about japan doing something similar to commemorate its soldiers that died in the korean and chinese wars, many of these soldiers were offenders of war crimes so naturally chinese and koreans along with their sympathizers will be angry
plenty of other examples, what if israel started something where they did the same for their fallen soldiers against palestine, nevermind the facts that many arab footballing coutnries do not recognize israel as a country.
heh, even worse, when i talk to my bosnian friend on xbl who agrees, he can already see both bosnians and serbs wanting to do something like this, and for what?
is a complete attention grabber that isnt needed or warranted in international football. fifa try so hard and sanction so many countries for political and government interference, this is complete hypocracy
mauro=beast wrote:eh osama is a bad example. already people are talking about japan doing something similar to commemorate its soldiers that died in the korean and chinese wars, many of these soldiers were offenders of war crimes so naturally chinese and koreans along with their sympathizers will be angry
plenty of other examples, what if israel started something where they did the same for their fallen soldiers against palestine, nevermind the facts that many arab footballing coutnries do not recognize israel as a country.
heh, even worse, when i talk to my bosnian friend on xbl who agrees, he can already see both bosnians and serbs wanting to do something like this, and for what?
is a complete attention grabber that isnt needed or warranted in international football. fifa try so hard and sanction so many countries for political and government interference, this is complete hypocracy
Blackpool Rule wrote:mauro=beast wrote:eh osama is a bad example. already people are talking about japan doing something similar to commemorate its soldiers that died in the korean and chinese wars, many of these soldiers were offenders of war crimes so naturally chinese and koreans along with their sympathizers will be angry
plenty of other examples, what if israel started something where they did the same for their fallen soldiers against palestine, nevermind the facts that many arab footballing coutnries do not recognize israel as a country.
heh, even worse, when i talk to my bosnian friend on xbl who agrees, he can already see both bosnians and serbs wanting to do something like this, and for what?
is a complete attention grabber that isnt needed or warranted in international football. fifa try so hard and sanction so many countries for political and government interference, this is complete hypocracy
the poppy isn't political
ahlycotc wrote:I don't see how you can say a symbol that commemorates soldiers that died in a political war as not being
political.
Blackpool Rule wrote:ahlycotc wrote:I don't see how you can say a symbol that commemorates soldiers that died in a political war as not being
political.
it represents all war Britain has been in if we didn't remember one war because it was political that would be unfair on the soldiers and their families
ahlycotc wrote:Blackpool Rule wrote:
it represents all war Britain has been in if we didn't remember one war because it was political that would be unfair on the soldiers and their families
My point still stands. Virtually all wars are political.
mauro=beast wrote:but you already remember wars domestically in club football in your own country where it is widely accepted
why do you feel the need to do this internationally when all it will do is cause trouble. you are too short sighted my friend and you dont see the bigger picture.
fifa usually empowers a mutual respect between nations that you dont involve any political things in international football. countries have been sanctioned, banned and suspended for political representation
i can remember those iranian players who got banned by their government who in turned got their entire footballing FA sanctioned for getting involved
these british soldiers died in armed conflict with other nations. if u dont classify this as political then you do not know what the words means my friend
Blackpool Rule wrote:We have been working closely with the Royal British Legion who have welcomed our support. We can confirm that:
·The England players will wear black armbands during the Spain game on Saturday
·The FA will place a poppy wreath on the pitch during the national anthems
·There will be a one-minute silence ahead of kick-off
·Players will wear training tops with embroidered poppies on match day
·Players will wear poppy-embossed anthem jackets during the national anthems
·Military representatives will be in the presentation party prior to kick-off
·The FA has donated 500 England v Spain tickets to 'Tickets for Troops', for members of the Armed Forces, and 1,000 tickets for the England v Sweden game on Tuesday (this is standard FA policy for Wembley matches)
·The England senior squad will train at Wembley on Friday ahead of the Spain game.
They will observe the two-minute silence at 11am, all wearing training tops embossed with poppies. This session will be broadcast live
·The training tops embossed with poppies will be passed onto forces' charities post-match as auction items for fund raising
·The poppy will be visible around Wembley on Saturday, on the scoreboards and advertising boards, and poppy sellers will be in the stadium to allow supporters to donate to the poppy fund and show their support
·On Thursday, England Under-21s play Iceland in Colchester and England U19s play Denmark in Brighton. All players and staff will be wearing poppies pre- and post-match
·Both the Under-21s and U19s will observe a one-minute silence, too, at their games - the Under-21s will do so alongside troops from Colchester barracks.
The FA where going to do this if the ban was lifted or not so FIFA might as well let them do it anyway
easley91 wrote:It's about respecting our own fallen soldiers. And the difference with club football and international football, is that we can show that our nations all respect all those who sacrificed their lives to let us live today. Mauro we want to wear them on the Saturday during the match because that is the closest date to remembrance Sunday, the same reason why clubs wore them last weekend as they were the last domestic games before it.
What I don't understand, is why wearing a poppy on a club shirt is different to wearing it on an international shirt? FIFA should have a committee to deal with this rule and get them to deal with it on an individual basis. Spanish FA have already said they are not offended by us wearing poppies.
mauro=beast wrote:easley91 wrote:It's about respecting our own fallen soldiers. And the difference with club football and international football, is that we can show that our nations all respect all those who sacrificed their lives to let us live today. Mauro we want to wear them on the Saturday during the match because that is the closest date to remembrance Sunday, the same reason why clubs wore them last weekend as they were the last domestic games before it.
What I don't understand, is why wearing a poppy on a club shirt is different to wearing it on an international shirt? FIFA should have a committee to deal with this rule and get them to deal with it on an individual basis. Spanish FA have already said they are not offended by us wearing poppies.
you are allowed to wear them in domestic games because it is exactly that - domestic. fifa only basic fundamental rulings, but each FA govern their own domestic league as they see. is the same why bans and suspensions vary from each league, each country has their own interpretation of the rules
why shouldnt you wear it? whats the difference between the death of fallen uk soldiers to the deaths of iraqi soldiers under saddam or war crime offenders of japan? you may say "oh but we fought for the good" but guess what? there are people in these countries that believed the same thing in regards to their own soldiers .why would you allow something that is going to stir up so much controversy. and why is this poppy needed in the first place? was the domestic league not enough? do the english FA hold themselves up in such high regard that they feel they must change international ruling to suit their own needs. Prince william is hardly an outside influence either, along with the fact that he is a king waiting in line which makes this decision morally corrupt in the first place, isnt he the head of the FA anyway by rights of royalty?
if fifa allow this poppy to go ahead, then they have no grounds to stopping any other nation doing the same thing, and if try then it just reflects how principally corrupt fifa are
they have it perfectly outlined in his due diligence that "No political and/or governmental interference in any form, shape or manner is to be associated with international level of football. Those that attempt to disregard this notion may be subject to heavy penalties including by form of suspension and international sanction."
ahlycotc wrote:Blackpool Rule wrote:you draw the line when your remembering a terrorist who took delight in killing innocent people
How would you word the rule? And who gets to define a terrorist? One person can be a terrorist in one's eye while a hero/martyr in another's.
mauro=beast wrote:only the immorally immune who are few in number, would have no obligations to such a thing.
but no other counry will say a word, they will keep their head deep under the sand and will watch from the sidelines to see this go through, and then thereafter we will see heads peeking out of holes and countries going out of their way to make their own tributes.
its a landslide waiting to happen.
controversy? of course not, fifa are trying to prevent the inevitable or at least they should be. every country will have their own interpretations, the controversy will come once they are able to express them.
The Maestro wrote:ahlycotc wrote:
How would you word the rule? And who gets to define a terrorist? One person can be a terrorist in one's eye while a hero/martyr in another's.
The most sensible poster on the forum in my opinion,
For the people who are trying to suggest the poppy is not a political symbol .. without the political context, British soldiers simply become murderers in uniform.
It represents a charity that supports British serviceman and women from every conflict after the First World War, so that includes their actions in Ireland, Kenya and the Middle East. Also the murder of almost two hundred thousand civilians.
Are people incapable of remembering lost serviceman without having poppies plastered all over them?
It's hard to believe a little red flower that was once selected by a Canadian soldier to honour his friend who died beside him in Flanders that the innocence and true nature of his tribute would turn into this
I believe that the poppy should have been a unique tribute to the First World War where its origin lies thus truly understanding the horrific scale of what these men endured on the battlefields of France and not sold out to become a product of controversy by its use to commemorate future conflicts.
Laurencio wrote:mauro=beast wrote:only the immorally immune who are few in number, would have no obligations to such a thing.
but no other counry will say a word, they will keep their head deep under the sand and will watch from the sidelines to see this go through, and then thereafter we will see heads peeking out of holes and countries going out of their way to make their own tributes.
its a landslide waiting to happen.
controversy? of course not, fifa are trying to prevent the inevitable or at least they should be. every country will have their own interpretations, the controversy will come once they are able to express them.
It would be no matter at all to claim that "as long as no federation objects to the use of such commemorating symbols, FIFA will allow them". The second some federation objects, it's clearly a touchy subject and can be dealt with by FIFA accordingly.
Blackpool Rule wrote:ahlycotc wrote:
My point still stands. Virtually all wars are political.
so in that case lets not sing God save the Queen because that's religious and political
easley91 wrote:It's about respecting our own fallen soldiers. And the difference with club football and international football, is that we can show that our nations all respect all those who sacrificed their lives to let us live today. Mauro we want to wear them on the Saturday during the match because that is the closest date to remembrance Sunday, the same reason why clubs wore them last weekend as they were the last domestic games before it.
What I don't understand, is why wearing a poppy on a club shirt is different to wearing it on an international shirt? FIFA should have a committee to deal with this rule and get them to deal with it on an individual basis. Spanish FA have already said they are not offended by us wearing poppies.
mauro=beast wrote:Laurencio wrote:
It would be no matter at all to claim that "as long as no federation objects to the use of such commemorating symbols, FIFA will allow them". The second some federation objects, it's clearly a touchy subject and can be dealt with by FIFA accordingly.
the poppy is not the issue here. it represents something that is overly good in british culture
the issue is what it means and the message it sends to other countries
fifa dealing with other countries? on what grounds? they bent the rules for 1 country and now they must do the same for the rest
