Republican Nominees

Roloman4 wrote:Ahmed, are you a socially conservative economic liberal?

If so, you are the first one I have ever met.

Yes. That's the closest you can describe me.

jeb4eva wrote:I don't think any of them would stand a chance against Obama in the election.

Yea? Obama's approval rating is sub-40. The last time a sitting president won a second term with a sub-50 approval rating was...Caligula?

I won't underestimate Obama's ability to campaign. We know from 2008 that he is a great campaigner (we also know from 2009 through now that he is a shit governor). So maybe he can overcome his current predicament. But it doesn't look good. There's even talk of a challenge within his own party. Hillary is gaining momentum.

I think Herman Cain should be the new president.

Hermain Cain is a moron.

menalawyerguy wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

His views on healthcare are inexcusable, unbelievably ignorant/dishonest. He claimed in the debate last week that he suffered from cancer in the United States, but in a country with Universal Health Care, such as the United Kingdom, he would be dead because he'd have had to wait 6 months for an essential scan.

1. I live in a country that has Universal Healthcare, that's NOT how it works, if you need an essential scan, you get it almost immediately, whereas if you want a new knee or a new hip, something non essential, you might have to wait a bit longer.

Depends on what is considered "essential," doesn't it? I know specifically of people in the UK who had to wait for an operation after breaking a leg, or rupturing a kidney. They lived. Those weren't life threatening per se, but they waited six months to get what they needed. In the U.S., you walk right in when you need a leg operation...even if you don't have insurance, btw. The pitfall is if you don't have insurance, you might wind up with a monumental debt on your head. That sucks, no doubt about it. But you won't get ignored. It's kind of a pick your poison thing. The English have decided they want everybody to be covered, no matter what...even if that results in some people waiting a little longer for attention. We have decided that waiting for service is not cool...but that sacrifices 20% of the folks. It's a tough situation to be in. More on that later....

If you walk in with a broken leg I'd say you are faking it anyway. I'm sure you could do that in England though, walk into a private hospital and ask for an operation and they'd arrange a payment plan for you. At least you have the option in England though, wait or drown yourself in debt, I know what I would rather have. It is absolutely terrible a situation to be put in, wrecking everything you have achieved in your life because of an unpredictable illness or injury. Even worse for those with long term conditions, although I believe Mr. Obama's package is doing something about this.

3. With no universal healthcare, 50m people in the US would die in Mr. Cain's situation because they are not insured and would not be able to pay for it, not without selling their possessions anyway.

Haha...you should be an American politician...you know how to play on people's fears...You could say "50 million would die if Cain gets his way." It might work. I get your point, but only about 3 million people (total) die in America per year. I know what you mean, you are saying if all of the uninsured got the same cancer as Cain, they would die. Fair enough. If you are uninsured and you get prostate cancer, your chances of dying are high. Agreed...that blows. But there's a bigger picture here (inb4menaisheartless)

I did clarify that in my post. And yes, it blows. To say the least.

It absolutely fucking amazes me how resistant you guys are to the idea of Universal Healthcare.

We have a whole different ball of wax to deal with that you folks do.

#1, we are already going bankrupt. We cannot afford the entitlements we do have, let alone another massive entitlement. We are trying to cut our budget and our deficits. We are trying (perhaps in vain) to save our currency. We can't afford this.

#2: We have 300 million+ people to take care of, not including folks who are here against our own rules. We take care of the latter too, btw. If they show up to the emergency room with a kid about to be born, we deliver it...FREE OF CHARGE! Oh, btw, that kid is born with American citizenship. How cruel are we! Our hospitals also treat anybody with a serious injury without asking any questions. They charge in retrospect, but if the patient is an illegal immigrant...TAXPAYERS foot the bill! Yippie!

These are just anecdotes. The big picture view of things is we cannot afford universal health care. Not as long as Canada, Eastern Europe, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and the kings of the Middle East need us to take care of their international security. I won't vote for Herman Cain. I want Ron Paul. But Cain is at least a self-made man. He is the son of a janitor and house cleaner, and he made his millions off of taking slumping businesses and returning them to profitability. He has real world experience. Compare and contrast him to the career community organizer we have in the Oval Office right now, and I would take a trade in a heartbeat.

#1 I may be wrong about this, but I believe we pay less per capita for our healthcare than you do
#2 Is a non-issue, Illegals make up a very small percentage of people treated by your ERs. That is something which would happen in any civilised system. What would you prefer, to chuck them out onto the street to die?

A lot of being successful businessman is just luck. Circumstances in business are often out of one's control, Alan Sugar, Donald Trump, they're both highly successful self made men, fuck, Jade Goody made herself a millionaire by manipulating the media (if you want to spin it nicely), I wouldn't trust any of those men to rule a country, much less the most powerful country in the world.

Menalawyerguy, put aside the financial side of the argument (raising taxes, etc.) concerning universal healthcare, and look at its benefits: everyone being treated without huge debts, eliminating inefficiencies such as duplicate paper work, centralized national health database, etc. I have experienced it first hand in Canada because I have dual citizenship. Of course, there are long waits in emergency rooms, etc. if your situation isn't life threatening but I have had similar experiences in the US.

Having experienced the healthcare system on both sides of the border, I can reasonably say universal healthcare is far better than our current system. Currently, I have my healthcare through my university but otherwise I'd have nothing and would be forced to pay unreasonably high fees for insurance or having to live without health insurance.

The fact is at the end of the day millions of Americans are living without healthcare and risk falling into huge debts if they go see the doctor without insurance. I understand where your coming from in terms of the financial situation and wait times though. My father recently had surgery to clear an infection in his hip and would of had to wait 6 months in Canada for the same operation. Thing is he has health insurance here in the US which he pays for and doesn't come cheap. Still, I've had this discussion with him before and he would choose Canada's much more efficient universal healthcare for the US' healthcare system in a heartbeat.

Not to mention you can STILL GET PRIVATE CARE IF YOU WANT IT, and more importantly, it's either cheaper to do so or the quality is higher, because everyone has a decent standard alternative.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:

Depends on what is considered "essential," doesn't it? I know specifically of people in the UK who had to wait for an operation after breaking a leg, or rupturing a kidney. They lived. Those weren't life threatening per se, but they waited six months to get what they needed. In the U.S., you walk right in when you need a leg operation...even if you don't have insurance, btw. The pitfall is if you don't have insurance, you might wind up with a monumental debt on your head. That sucks, no doubt about it. But you won't get ignored. It's kind of a pick your poison thing. The English have decided they want everybody to be covered, no matter what...even if that results in some people waiting a little longer for attention. We have decided that waiting for service is not cool...but that sacrifices 20% of the folks. It's a tough situation to be in. More on that later....

If you walk in with a broken leg I'd say you are faking it anyway.

Who said they walked anywhere?

3. With no universal healthcare, 50m people in the US would die in Mr. Cain's situation because they are not insured and would not be able to pay for it, not without selling their possessions anyway.

We have a whole different ball of wax to deal with that you folks do.

#1, we are already going bankrupt. We cannot afford the entitlements we do have, let alone another massive entitlement. We are trying to cut our budget and our deficits. We are trying (perhaps in vain) to save our currency. We can't afford this.

#2: We have 300 million+ people to take care of, not including folks who are here against our own rules. We take care of the latter too, btw. If they show up to the emergency room with a kid about to be born, we deliver it...FREE OF CHARGE! Oh, btw, that kid is born with American citizenship. How cruel are we! Our hospitals also treat anybody with a serious injury without asking any questions. They charge in retrospect, but if the patient is an illegal immigrant...TAXPAYERS foot the bill! Yippie!

These are just anecdotes. The big picture view of things is we cannot afford universal health care. Not as long as Canada, Eastern Europe, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and the kings of the Middle East need us to take care of their international security. I won't vote for Herman Cain. I want Ron Paul. But Cain is at least a self-made man. He is the son of a janitor and house cleaner, and he made his millions off of taking slumping businesses and returning them to profitability. He has real world experience. Compare and contrast him to the career community organizer we have in the Oval Office right now, and I would take a trade in a heartbeat.

#1 I may be wrong about this, but I believe we pay less per capita for our healthcare than you do
#2 Is a non-issue, Illegals make up a very small percentage of people treated by your ERs. That is something which would happen in any civilised system. What would you prefer, to chuck them out onto the street to die?

With or without the illegal immigration issue, we can't afford it. Illegal immigration is just one of the exacerbating circumstances we have to deal with. It's a bigger problem for us than pretty much every other country in the world. And it's just one of the elements that would put (and is already putting) a strain on our health care system. No, I wouldn't suggest letting them die. Neither would most Americans. That's why we don't let them die.

We're $14 trillion in debt and this government's only solution to pretty much any issue we have is: more government. Have a recession? Let's grab $1 trillion from the largesse for stimulus. Stimulus ran out and the recession is double dipping? Let's grab $400 billion from the largesse for a jobs bill. 50 million are uninsured? Government has to insure them. It's a fucking joke. We need a fundamental change, not the lipservice we got from Obama in 2008. He promised us change but he's given us more of the same. Wall Street bankers still occupy the president's advisory committees and we're still going bankrupt.

A lot of being successful businessman is just luck. Circumstances in business are often out of one's control, Alan Sugar, Donald Trump, they're both highly successful self made men, fuck, Jade Goody made herself a millionaire by manipulating the media (if you want to spin it nicely), I wouldn't trust any of those men to rule a country, much less the most powerful country in the world.

A small percentage of what Cain has been able to accomplish is due to luck. Taking one bankruptcy bound business and returning it to profitability once might be lucky, but doing it for several suggests talent. That said, I wouldn't recommend voting for him just on that basis. But it's certainly more impressive on the resume than "community organizer."

menalawyerguy wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

If you walk in with a broken leg I'd say you are faking it anyway.

Who said they walked anywhere?

I know specifically of people in the UK who had to wait for an operation after breaking a leg, or rupturing a kidney. They lived. Those weren't life threatening per se, but they waited six months to get what they needed. In the U.S., you walk right in when you need a leg operation

#1 I may be wrong about this, but I believe we pay less per capita for our healthcare than you do
#2 Is a non-issue, Illegals make up a very small percentage of people treated by your ERs. That is something which would happen in any civilised system. What would you prefer, to chuck them out onto the street to die?

With or without the illegal immigration issue, we can't afford it. Illegal immigration is just one of the exacerbating circumstances we have to deal with. It's a bigger problem for us than pretty much every other country in the world. And it's just one of the elements that would put (and is already putting) a strain on our health care system. No, I wouldn't suggest letting them die. Neither would most Americans. That's why we don't let them die.

We're $14 trillion in debt and this government's only solution to pretty much any issue we have is: more government. Have a recession? Let's grab $1 trillion from the largesse for stimulus. Stimulus ran out and the recession is double dipping? Let's grab $400 billion from the largesse for a jobs bill. 50 million are uninsured? Government has to insure them. It's a fucking joke. We need a fundamental change, not the lipservice we got from Obama in 2008. He promised us change but he's given us more of the same. Wall Street bankers still occupy the president's advisory committees and we're still going bankrupt.

Yeah, it's a bigger problem for you, you are a wealthier country than anyone else, with a bigger land border to a much poorer country than anyone else. If you don't propose to let them die, then I don't know what else you can do about it. I sincerely doubt it's a significant problem anyway.

I agree, fundamental change, start by implementing a system which doesn't leave the poor/stupid in a dreadful situation should they get ill or have a retarded child.

A lot of being successful businessman is just luck. Circumstances in business are often out of one's control, Alan Sugar, Donald Trump, they're both highly successful self made men, fuck, Jade Goody made herself a millionaire by manipulating the media (if you want to spin it nicely), I wouldn't trust any of those men to rule a country, much less the most powerful country in the world.

A small percentage of what Cain has been able to accomplish is due to luck. Taking one bankruptcy bound business and returning it to profitability once might be lucky, but doing it for several suggests talent. That said, I wouldn't recommend voting for him just on that basis. But it's certainly more impressive on the resume than "community organizer."

Well there are 300m people in the US, it stands to reason that one or two of them are going to be THAT lucky. And it might be a talent, but even if it is, the skills aren't necessarily transferable.

mac wrote:Menalawyerguy, put aside the financial side of the argument (raising taxes, etc.) concerning universal healthcare, and look at its benefits: everyone being treated without huge debts, eliminating inefficiencies such as duplicate paper work, centralized national health database, etc. I have experienced it first hand in Canada because I have dual citizenship. Of course, there are long waits in emergency rooms, etc. if your situation isn't life threatening but I have had similar experiences in the US.

Having experienced the healthcare system on both sides of the border, I can reasonably say universal healthcare is far better than our current system. Currently, I have my healthcare through my university but otherwise I'd have nothing and would be forced to pay unreasonably high fees for insurance or having to live without health insurance.

The fact is at the end of the day millions of Americans are living without healthcare and risk falling into huge debts if they go see the doctor without insurance. I understand where your coming from in terms of the financial situation and wait times though. My father recently had surgery to clear an infection in his hip and would of had to wait 6 months in Canada for the same operation. Thing is he has health insurance here in the US which he pays for and doesn't come cheap. Still, I've had this discussion with him before and he would choose Canada's much more efficient universal healthcare for the US' healthcare system in a heartbeat.

Putting the financial aspects aside, it's lovely. Can we have unicorns in our imaginary play land as well? Canada has the best of the universal systems. They also have 14 million people and a shitload of oil, timber, fresh water and other resources. We have a shitload of resources as well but we also have 313 million folks, federal and state bureaucracies that can't control themselves and a banking sector that has a stranglehold on our currency and financial policies. I just don't see universal coverage working out for us. I'm not fundamentally against the idea. If it could work, it would be nice. I wish we all could have coverage. I wish we all could have a pony, too. But we can't.

menalawyerguy wrote:
Putting the financial aspects aside, it's lovely. Can we have unicorns in our imaginary play land as well? Canada has the best of the universal systems. They also have 14 million people and a shitload of oil, timber, fresh water and other resources. We have a shitload of resources as well but we also have 313 million folks, federal and state bureaucracies that can't control themselves and a banking sector that has a stranglehold on our currency and financial policies. I just don't see universal coverage working out for us. I'm not fundamentally against the idea. If it could work, it would be nice. I wish we all could have coverage. I wish we all could have a pony, too. But we can't.

If we weren't off fighting so many damn useless and unneeded wars and cut our military spending, I'm sure we could afford it. Also, Canada's population is closer to 34 million, not 14 million. Don't know where you got that number from.

mac wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:
Putting the financial aspects aside, it's lovely. Can we have unicorns in our imaginary play land as well? Canada has the best of the universal systems. They also have 14 million people and a shitload of oil, timber, fresh water and other resources. We have a shitload of resources as well but we also have 313 million folks, federal and state bureaucracies that can't control themselves and a banking sector that has a stranglehold on our currency and financial policies. I just don't see universal coverage working out for us. I'm not fundamentally against the idea. If it could work, it would be nice. I wish we all could have coverage. I wish we all could have a pony, too. But we can't.

If we weren't off fighting so many damn useless and unneeded wars and cut our military spending, I'm sure we could afford it.

True, for some reason, we feel the need to defend everyone from everything. We've taken the defense of Europe almost entirely upon ourselves (at their behest in many cases, btw). From what? Are the Soviets going to invade? Regardless, they're under no threat whatsoever because of our troop and base placements, which we pay for with money we borrowed from China, Arabs and even some of the European countries we've been asked to defend. Consequently, that frees up their dough to pay for a nice social safety net.

Also, Canada's population is closer to 34 million, not 14 million. Don't know where you got that number from.

Me neither. Chalk it up to a drive by texting. Good eye.

The point is valid even at 34 million though. We have almost ten times the population and it's the most diverse population in the world perhaps. Half the population doesn't pay a net positive number in taxes. We already have a pretty extensive social safety net that we don't really get credit for. All our old people are taken care of with social security, medicare and medicaid, programs that are also going bankrupt because the number of recipients is rising and the number of payers is decreasing. Then there's welfare. The benefit of welfare is arguable at best. Look at what has happened to the African-American community since LBJ spoke to about bringing about a "Great Society." Single motherhood has spiraled out of control. Drug abuse, crime, violence and disorder reign in a high percentage of black communities. The Democrats have made almost a majority of an entire generation of African-Americans dependent on government. And it's almost completely broken them down as a society. Is this what's best for them?

been watching a shit load of Ron Paul/ Wall street protest vids...fully backing this guy!

I honestly can't wait for the elections, first time I've ever been excited about something like this!!

I'm gonna try follow the race this year, what's the best channel? we have BBC, CNN and Fox?

which channels show debates?

Ron Paul kicking ass as usual.

I'm afraid he isn't going to win though. The voters are too stupid.

hows he doing atm?

whats the best way to follow the election?

The Daily Show? The Colbert Report? are they any good?

I've seen bits of them before but only for the stupid shit - didn't pay attention to the American politics.

El_indian wrote:hows he doing atm?

There are a lot of polls out there, so I don't know. He is averaging a third or fourth place finish. He is fairly close to the second place candidate, but he is usually far behind the top candidate.

El_indian wrote:whats the best way to follow the election?

The Daily Show? The Colbert Report? are they any good?

I've seen bits of them before but only for the stupid shit - didn't pay attention to the American politics.

Follow FOX News or CNN. They will get you information on the issues or the day of the debates. Every debate was available online so far for me, either on YouTube or CNN. Just make sure you know what day the debates are. You can find the dates for all the scheduled debates on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)_presidential_debates,_2012

The Daily Show and the Colbert Report are good for laughs, but if you really want to hear everything the candidates are saying and the real issues, there is no better way than watching the actual debates. I love the Daily Show and Colbert Report, but they aren't legitimate news sources for things so complex and critical.

Mitt Romney and Rick Perry are the top candidates according to polls, but they are shit. Ron Paul is too radical for the Republican voters. He is the most popular candidates among the youth.

cheers for the info.

from the videos I've been watching it seems the media is acting as though Ron Paul doesn't exist.

watched a bit of Newt on fox news - he's so boring and uncharismatic

El_indian wrote:cheers for the info.

from the videos I've been watching it seems the media is acting as though Ron Paul doesn't exist.

Yeah, Ron Paul doesn't get much media coverage. That's always been an issue every 4 years. However, I do believe he is getting more coverage this year (still not enough). The two candidates that are getting the biggest media attention are Mitt Romney and Rick Perry (which are not surprisingly in the top two).

I also think his stance with foreign aid to Israel is going to hurt him. I totally agree with his foreign policy issues, but treating Israel the same as any country is not going to make you popular around here. The Jews have a strong effect on the results due to media coverage and campaign financing.

WOW that bill o reilly guy is a major douche

WTF is up with the Fox news channel, why are there so many hotties?

El_indian wrote:WOW that bill o reilly guy is a major douche

Yeah. He is nowhere as bad as Glenn Beck though.

El_indian wrote:WTF is up with the Fox news channel, why are there so many hotties?

The only good thing on FOX News.

There is a Republican debate in 2 hours on CNBC.

it's not on my program guide

You might be able to find it on the internet. I'm unfortunately going to miss it because I have to be somewhere. I hope they upload it for future viewing.

Someone should write a little bit about the main candidates for the people who have no idea who these people are.

watch and listen