What killed atmosphere at football matches in England?

James ♠ wrote:

And0TheGr8 wrote:

A hill...? Is that how to solve our problems?

Well it holds about 10,000 screaming lunatics, would you complain about that?

All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Dan wrote:All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Going to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd games is the "in" thing to do. But do you think people go to Preston North End games just to be cool? Ticket prices are the thing. But the middle and upper class folks still do care about the games a lot of the time. They're just more reserved then the hooligan working class.

Dan wrote:All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Usually when it is a big game which is obviously gonna have even the casual supporters up for it.

It is something to do with seating regulations, how can 3000 away fans make more noise away from home then they do at home? Seating isn't the whole reason, but it definately plays a part.

All you do is sing when sat down, that wont alone encourage people. Dancing/jumping about seemingly gets people more up for it and more join in.

Would also like to add, when we are made to sit down away from home, the support is alot quieter than when the stewards leave us to do as we please.

menalawyerguy wrote:

Dan wrote:All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Going to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd games is the "in" thing to do. But do you think people go to Preston North End games just to be cool? Ticket prices are the thing. But the middle and upper class folks still do care about the games a lot of the time. They're just more reserved then the hooligan working class.

I have seen people on the Bill Shankly Kop wearing Manchester United trackies what made you use PNE as an example ?

menalawyerguy wrote:

Dan wrote:All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Going to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd games is the "in" thing to do. But do you think people go to Preston North End games just to be cool? Ticket prices are the thing. But the middle and upper class folks still do care about the games a lot of the time. They're just more reserved then the hooligan working class.

Yes.

Where I live now, we've gone to see Newport County play a few times, just for some football. Just a bunch of 5 or 6 Uni students. We'll get involved in the chants and that and the guys we usually sit next to moan about the fans that have suddenly jumped on the bandwagon because they went up a year ago. It happens at all levels of football. There's a reason attendances increase when a team is doing well.


James, what about Stoke? They've got an all-seater?

There can be good atmosphere like at County when i go in the standing area it's great everyone singing along and stuff. But i agree that the atmosphere with big clubs ain't always the best but i usually enjoy games because i go to alot of Derby away games with my brother and the away atmosphere is great. Going to reading away last game of the season so it should be fancy dress, it's always a great atmosphere then.

Dan wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:

Dan wrote:All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Going to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd games is the "in" thing to do. But do you think people go to Preston North End games just to be cool? Ticket prices are the thing. But the middle and upper class folks still do care about the games a lot of the time. They're just more reserved then the hooligan working class.

Yes.

Where I live now, we've gone to see Newport County play a few times, just for some football. Just a bunch of 5 or 6 Uni students. We'll get involved in the chants and that and the guys we usually sit next to moan about the fans that have suddenly jumped on the bandwagon because they went up a year ago. It happens at all levels of football. There's a reason attendances increase when a team is doing well.


James, what about Stoke? They've got an all-seater?

Have you been to Stoke? Yes their home support is better than most but it isn't actually as good as people think. 1st year of PL it was but that was mostly due to back in the PL buzz etc.

I went 2 seasons before that and it was piss poor, I went last season and there was no atmosphere.

They are good, but over hyped.

A bit of everything, I'd have to say that sitting down increases it the most though. You just can't create the same amount of noise sitting down and as you can standing up, the diaphragm is compressed, it's anatomically impossible. The loudest football grounds gets is after goals because everyone is on their feet yelling.

dena wrote:A bit of everything, I'd have to say that sitting down increases it the most though. You just can't create the same amount of noise sitting down and as you can standing up, the diaphragm is compressed, it's anatomically impossible. The loudest football grounds gets is after goals because everyone is on their feet yelling.

I always knew there was a reason singers stood up rather than sat down, I just didn't know the reason.

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:

Dan wrote:All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Going to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd games is the "in" thing to do. But do you think people go to Preston North End games just to be cool? Ticket prices are the thing. But the middle and upper class folks still do care about the games a lot of the time. They're just more reserved then the hooligan working class.

Yes.

Where I live now, we've gone to see Newport County play a few times, just for some football. Just a bunch of 5 or 6 Uni students. We'll get involved in the chants and that and the guys we usually sit next to moan about the fans that have suddenly jumped on the bandwagon because they went up a year ago. It happens at all levels of football. There's a reason attendances increase when a team is doing well.


James, what about Stoke? They've got an all-seater?

Have you been to Stoke? Yes their home support is better than most but it isn't actually as good as people think. 1st year of PL it was but that was mostly due to back in the PL buzz etc.

I went 2 seasons before that and it was piss poor, I went last season and there was no atmosphere.

They are good, but over hyped.

None of that matters. Regardless of what you think of it, it's a better atmosphere than most. Why? They play in an all seater stadium? Surely that means they can't generate atmosphere because only standing does?

Face it. Nowadays every club is filled with the fair-weather fan that doesn't really give a shit. That's what it is. Fans are too lazy to realise this and blame everything else except themselves. If you want to create an atmosphere, you can create one. It's as simple as that. We create one against the bigger clubs, in Europe it's phenomenal. So why isn't it as good when we play Wigan for example? If we wanted to create an atmopshere there, we can do that, but we don't.

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:

Dan wrote:All-seater stadia killing atmosphere is a myth. Time and time again there has been fantastic atmosphere's in game sup and down the country. If the fans want to create one, they will.

The problem comes down to one thing. Ticket prices. The fans that were the ones that used to come in and make noise can no longer afford tickets. Now it goes to these middle class types that don't really care about what's going on, they just see it as the 'in' thing to be in a football match.

Going to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd games is the "in" thing to do. But do you think people go to Preston North End games just to be cool? Ticket prices are the thing. But the middle and upper class folks still do care about the games a lot of the time. They're just more reserved then the hooligan working class.

Yes.

Where I live now, we've gone to see Newport County play a few times, just for some football. Just a bunch of 5 or 6 Uni students. We'll get involved in the chants and that and the guys we usually sit next to moan about the fans that have suddenly jumped on the bandwagon because they went up a year ago. It happens at all levels of football. There's a reason attendances increase when a team is doing well.


James, what about Stoke? They've got an all-seater?

Have you been to Stoke? Yes their home support is better than most but it isn't actually as good as people think. 1st year of PL it was but that was mostly due to back in the PL buzz etc.

I went 2 seasons before that and it was piss poor, I went last season and there was no atmosphere.

They are good, but over hyped.

None of that matters. Regardless of what you think of it, it's a better atmosphere than most. Why? They play in an all seater stadium? Surely that means they can't generate atmosphere because only standing does?

Face it. Nowadays every club is filled with the fair-weather fan that doesn't really give a shit. That's what it is. Fans are too lazy to realise this and blame everything else except themselves. If you want to create an atmosphere, you can create one. It's as simple as that. We create one against the bigger clubs, in Europe it's phenomenal. So why isn't it as good when we play Wigan for example? If we wanted to create an atmopshere there, we can do that, but we don't.

It is natural that people get more excited for big games therefore they find it harder to control themselves. It isn't really much to do with choosing on them nights because it is like your body is taken over and can't help itself.

Maybe it is to do with motivation, which in my opinion I become alot more motivated when standing up rather than having to sit down constantly.

I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

We won the war. Damn.

'We' won the war?

Midweek games.

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:

Going to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd games is the "in" thing to do. But do you think people go to Preston North End games just to be cool? Ticket prices are the thing. But the middle and upper class folks still do care about the games a lot of the time. They're just more reserved then the hooligan working class.

Yes.

Where I live now, we've gone to see Newport County play a few times, just for some football. Just a bunch of 5 or 6 Uni students. We'll get involved in the chants and that and the guys we usually sit next to moan about the fans that have suddenly jumped on the bandwagon because they went up a year ago. It happens at all levels of football. There's a reason attendances increase when a team is doing well.


James, what about Stoke? They've got an all-seater?

Have you been to Stoke? Yes their home support is better than most but it isn't actually as good as people think. 1st year of PL it was but that was mostly due to back in the PL buzz etc.

I went 2 seasons before that and it was piss poor, I went last season and there was no atmosphere.

They are good, but over hyped.

None of that matters. Regardless of what you think of it, it's a better atmosphere than most. Why? They play in an all seater stadium? Surely that means they can't generate atmosphere because only standing does?

Face it. Nowadays every club is filled with the fair-weather fan that doesn't really give a shit. That's what it is. Fans are too lazy to realise this and blame everything else except themselves. If you want to create an atmosphere, you can create one. It's as simple as that. We create one against the bigger clubs, in Europe it's phenomenal. So why isn't it as good when we play Wigan for example? If we wanted to create an atmopshere there, we can do that, but we don't.

It is natural that people get more excited for big games therefore they find it harder to control themselves. It isn't really much to do with choosing on them nights because it is like your body is taken over and can't help itself.

Maybe it is to do with motivation, which in my opinion I become alot more motivated when standing up rather than having to sit down constantly.

Then the problem doesn't exist with all seater stadiums. It's down to stewards telling people to sit down.

Lol at stewards telling you guys to sit down.

Think that only happens in England, nowhere else.

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

Dan wrote:

James wrote:

Dan wrote:

James wrote:

Dan wrote:

Yes.

Where I live now, we've gone to see Newport County play a few times, just for some football. Just a bunch of 5 or 6 Uni students. We'll get involved in the chants and that and the guys we usually sit next to moan about the fans that have suddenly jumped on the bandwagon because they went up a year ago. It happens at all levels of football. There's a reason attendances increase when a team is doing well.


James, what about Stoke? They've got an all-seater?

Have you been to Stoke? Yes their home support is better than most but it isn't actually as good as people think. 1st year of PL it was but that was mostly due to back in the PL buzz etc.

I went 2 seasons before that and it was piss poor, I went last season and there was no atmosphere.

They are good, but over hyped.

None of that matters. Regardless of what you think of it, it's a better atmosphere than most. Why? They play in an all seater stadium? Surely that means they can't generate atmosphere because only standing does?

Face it. Nowadays every club is filled with the fair-weather fan that doesn't really give a shit. That's what it is. Fans are too lazy to realise this and blame everything else except themselves. If you want to create an atmosphere, you can create one. It's as simple as that. We create one against the bigger clubs, in Europe it's phenomenal. So why isn't it as good when we play Wigan for example? If we wanted to create an atmopshere there, we can do that, but we don't.

It is natural that people get more excited for big games therefore they find it harder to control themselves. It isn't really much to do with choosing on them nights because it is like your body is taken over and can't help itself.

Maybe it is to do with motivation, which in my opinion I become alot more motivated when standing up rather than having to sit down constantly.

Then the problem doesn't exist with all seater stadiums. It's down to stewards telling people to sit down.

Because they have to. Bring standing areas would remove the problem of stewards telling people to sit down...

Dan I can't believe you actually said that and i'm not sure if you was joking or not.

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

There's been football accidents in other countries too you know.

I don't think it's the stadiums that are the problem anyway. I find football to be a much more family event in England than in continental Europe.

James wrote:

Dan wrote:

James wrote:

Dan wrote:

James wrote:

Have you been to Stoke? Yes their home support is better than most but it isn't actually as good as people think. 1st year of PL it was but that was mostly due to back in the PL buzz etc.

I went 2 seasons before that and it was piss poor, I went last season and there was no atmosphere.

They are good, but over hyped.

None of that matters. Regardless of what you think of it, it's a better atmosphere than most. Why? They play in an all seater stadium? Surely that means they can't generate atmosphere because only standing does?

Face it. Nowadays every club is filled with the fair-weather fan that doesn't really give a shit. That's what it is. Fans are too lazy to realise this and blame everything else except themselves. If you want to create an atmosphere, you can create one. It's as simple as that. We create one against the bigger clubs, in Europe it's phenomenal. So why isn't it as good when we play Wigan for example? If we wanted to create an atmopshere there, we can do that, but we don't.

It is natural that people get more excited for big games therefore they find it harder to control themselves. It isn't really much to do with choosing on them nights because it is like your body is taken over and can't help itself.

Maybe it is to do with motivation, which in my opinion I become alot more motivated when standing up rather than having to sit down constantly.

Then the problem doesn't exist with all seater stadiums. It's down to stewards telling people to sit down.

Because they have to. Bring standing areas would remove the problem of stewards telling people to sit down...

Dan I can't believe you actually said that and i'm not sure if you was joking or not.

Said what?

I know they're told to. But why? It's safe to stand in a seated area. I've done it before and will do it again.

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

The flaw in your argument is that you guys blame Hillsborough on the police. If everything was policed properly, the disaster wouldn't of happened.

Dan wrote:

James wrote:

Dan wrote:

James wrote:

Dan wrote:

None of that matters. Regardless of what you think of it, it's a better atmosphere than most. Why? They play in an all seater stadium? Surely that means they can't generate atmosphere because only standing does?

Face it. Nowadays every club is filled with the fair-weather fan that doesn't really give a shit. That's what it is. Fans are too lazy to realise this and blame everything else except themselves. If you want to create an atmosphere, you can create one. It's as simple as that. We create one against the bigger clubs, in Europe it's phenomenal. So why isn't it as good when we play Wigan for example? If we wanted to create an atmopshere there, we can do that, but we don't.

It is natural that people get more excited for big games therefore they find it harder to control themselves. It isn't really much to do with choosing on them nights because it is like your body is taken over and can't help itself.

Maybe it is to do with motivation, which in my opinion I become alot more motivated when standing up rather than having to sit down constantly.

Then the problem doesn't exist with all seater stadiums. It's down to stewards telling people to sit down.

Because they have to. Bring standing areas would remove the problem of stewards telling people to sit down...

Dan I can't believe you actually said that and i'm not sure if you was joking or not.

Said what?

I know they're told to. But why? It's safe to stand in a seated area. I've done it before and will do it again.

I don't understand why you are against safe standing then...

polska. wrote:

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

There's been football accidents in other countries too you know.

I don't think it's the stadiums that are the problem anyway. I find football to be a much more family event in England than in continental Europe.

You don't get it do you? Hillsborough had such an effect on the game, the instant reaction was to make football safe again for the fans. You've no idea what it was like for fans before all-seater stadiums came in. They were treated like cattle, marched into pens and expected to stay there. The main aim of what came out of Hillsborough was to protect the fans. And you criticise England for this?

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

The flaw in your argument is that you guys blame Hillsborough on the police. If everything was policed properly, the disaster wouldn't of happened.

Not a flaw at all. The police definitely had a role, a major role in the disaster, but terracing played a huge role. A tragedy like Hillsbrorough won't happen in an all-seater stadium.


And I'm not against standing, I'm against standing areas. I think it would be an insult to the memory of those that died if we moved back to it.

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

There's been football accidents in other countries too you know.

I don't think it's the stadiums that are the problem anyway. I find football to be a much more family event in England than in continental Europe.

You don't get it do you? Hillsborough had such an effect on the game, the instant reaction was to make football safe again for the fans. You've no idea what it was like for fans before all-seater stadiums came in. They were treated like cattle, marched into pens and expected to stay there. The main aim of what came out of Hillsborough was to protect the fans. And you criticise England for this?

So basically England went from one extreme to the other.

polska. wrote:

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

There's been football accidents in other countries too you know.

I don't think it's the stadiums that are the problem anyway. I find football to be a much more family event in England than in continental Europe.

You don't get it do you? Hillsborough had such an effect on the game, the instant reaction was to make football safe again for the fans. You've no idea what it was like for fans before all-seater stadiums came in. They were treated like cattle, marched into pens and expected to stay there. The main aim of what came out of Hillsborough was to protect the fans. And you criticise England for this?

So basically England went from one extreme to the other.

Don't get what you mean?

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

The flaw in your argument is that you guys blame Hillsborough on the police. If everything was policed properly, the disaster wouldn't of happened.

Not a flaw at all. The police definitely had a role, a major role in the disaster, but terracing played a huge role. A tragedy like Hillsbrorough won't happen in an all-seater stadium.


And I'm not against standing, I'm against standing areas. I think it would be an insult to the memory of those that died if we moved back to it.

Why? I think it is fair to assume the 96 that died enjoyed the atmosphere of football games. Surely they would prefer that their deaths helped to make football safer AND just as enjoyable as it was for them without ruining the whole point in going to games.

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

James ♠ wrote:

Dan wrote:

polska. wrote:I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss the atmosphere in England as I remember getting abuse last time I entered this discussion.

But you have to look at Germany and compare Germany to England to see what went wrong.

Yeah. 96 people died.

The flaw in your argument is that you guys blame Hillsborough on the police. If everything was policed properly, the disaster wouldn't of happened.

Not a flaw at all. The police definitely had a role, a major role in the disaster, but terracing played a huge role. A tragedy like Hillsbrorough won't happen in an all-seater stadium.


And I'm not against standing, I'm against standing areas. I think it would be an insult to the memory of those that died if we moved back to it.

Why? I think it is fair to assume the 96 that died enjoyed the atmosphere of football games. Surely they would prefer that their deaths helped to make football safer AND just as enjoyable as it was for them without ruining the whole point in going to games.

Just my opinion on the matter. There's no point explaining it because you won't agree and we'll just hit a loop. Anyway, this isn't the topic to be discussing it.