Celtic v Newcastle - Who has a bigger fanbase?

The Maestro wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

You do realise you have nothing concrete to base any of this on? I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that says that Celtic have more supporter clubs, or that Celtic have more supporters. No statistics or proof that can be used for a viable comparison has been presented.

I've given several links which state it's 9m

What the fuck do you want me to do, travel around the globe?

As for supporters clubs, Celtic are officially the most supported club in North America

Newcastle supporters clubs

http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s70/st87767.htm

Celtic have twice as much in north american alone

http://www.nafcsc.com/clubs/world.shtml


We've established Celtic have estimated 9m, either way, whatever spin you try and put on it, Celtic have more than Newcastle.

What I want are actual statistics. Something that is worth using as a comparison. Nothing can be established unless you have unbiased sources with actual facts and figures. None of which has been presented. It may be highly likely that Celtic does have the bigger fan base, but nothing provided has "proven" this.

Most notably there's a worrying lack of any information regarding Newcastle's fan base presented.

Laurencio wrote:

The Maestro wrote:

I've given several links which state it's 9m

What the fuck do you want me to do, travel around the globe?

As for supporters clubs, Celtic are officially the most supported club in North America

Newcastle supporters clubs

http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s70/st87767.htm

Celtic have twice as much in north american alone

http://www.nafcsc.com/clubs/world.shtml


We've established Celtic have estimated 9m, either way, whatever spin you try and put on it, Celtic have more than Newcastle.

What I want are actual statistics. Something that is worth using as a comparison. Nothing can be established unless you have unbiased sources with actual facts and figures. None of which has been presented. It may be highly likely that Celtic does have the bigger fan base, but nothing provided has "proven" this.

What more can I provide you with

I've given you figures from the next gen series, which says 9m, so does almost every other website, you can't just question the reliability of everything I give you. That way the argument will never end.

I've also given you a list of supporters clubs worldwide for each club.

Debatable really. It all depends on what you call a 'fan'.

An estimate from 9 years ago (back when Celtic were much better than their current day team) is hardly reliable is it ? Especially considering none of the data collected for the estimate was made public.

The Maestro wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

What I want are actual statistics. Something that is worth using as a comparison. Nothing can be established unless you have unbiased sources with actual facts and figures. None of which has been presented. It may be highly likely that Celtic does have the bigger fan base, but nothing provided has "proven" this.

What more can I provide you with

I've given you figures from the next gen series, which says 9m, so does almost every other website, you can't just question the reliability of everything I give you. That way the argument will never end.

I've also given you a list of supporters clubs worldwide for each club.

Without any reference to any real survey or market analysis the number 9M is as taken out of the air. The figures I have found (reliable and used by FIFA and UEFA) are that Celtic have a European fan base of 2.6M, the 34th highest in Europe. Unfortunately it did not include any information about support outside of Europe (I only found an abstract of the report unfortunately).

celtic have more fans at home and worldwide.

i reckon celtic have more UK fans than any other team. ahead of united, liverpool, chelsea & arsenal.

not around the world though.

I know 5 Newcastle fans and no Celtic fans (i know a rangers fan).

From new zealand.

irish catholics spread around the globe like a cancer. a cancer that supports celtic!

i dread the day they are allowed to join the greed league, they're a monster waiting to happen.

'orrible bastard wrote:celtic have more fans at home and worldwide.

i reckon celtic have more UK fans than any other team. ahead of united, liverpool, chelsea & arsenal.

not around the world though.

You would be wrong. Celtic has 1.4M UK fans. Manchester United has 4.7M.* (corrected)

In fact:

Manchester United ( 4.7M)
Liverpool (4.4M)
Arsenal (3.1M)
Chelsea (1.6M)
Celtic (1.4M)

'orrible bastard wrote:irish catholics spread around the globe like a cancer. a cancer that supports celtic!

i dread the day they are allowed to join the greed league, they're a monster waiting to happen.

We arent that bad, our Irish pubs are alright

Sean wrote:

'orrible bastard wrote:irish catholics spread around the globe like a cancer. a cancer that supports celtic!

i dread the day they are allowed to join the greed league, they're a monster waiting to happen.

We arent that bad, our Irish pubs are alright

There are probably more Irish pubs than Newcastle fans

Laurencio wrote:

'orrible bastard wrote:celtic have more fans at home and worldwide.

i reckon celtic have more UK fans than any other team. ahead of united, liverpool, chelsea & arsenal.

not around the world though.

You would be wrong. Celtic has 1.4M UK fans. Manchester United has 4.7M.* (corrected)

In fact:

Manchester United ( 4.7M)
Liverpool (4.4M)
Arsenal (3.1M)
Chelsea (1.6M)
Celtic (1.4M)

no i'm not wrong. those stats are manipulated. i dont doubt that those clubs have those numbers of 'fans', but what constitutes a fan these days?

you only have to look at this very forum while a match involving those teams is actually being played to realise that a overwhelmingly huge percentage of those 'fans' are nowhere near the stadiums in which the games are being played.

what about fans who have a second team? i'll guarantee that of match attending fans in england. whether they be united, arsenal, liverpool, wolves, hull or leyton orient - the irish catholic ones will invariably suppport celtic. and they are serious about their second team.

whether that would remain the same if they joined the PL remains to be seen. but they generate the same if not more money for celtic than the millions of armchair supporters who are south of the border.

irish fans for instance, there's a good mix of united, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea and to a lesser extent leeds and believe it or not Wolves. but if they are catholic they also support celtic!

there's no way i'm wrong.

Sean wrote:

'orrible bastard wrote:irish catholics spread around the globe like a cancer. a cancer that supports celtic!

i dread the day they are allowed to join the greed league, they're a monster waiting to happen.

We arent that bad, our Irish pubs are alright

i wasn't having a go. wherever the irish settle, they multiply rapidly - look at the US, australia. shit look at south america. there are pockets of irish descendants located all over the continent, its weird!

villages on the edge of patagonia full of fair skinned, freckly gingers!!!!

'orrible bastard wrote:

Sean wrote:

We arent that bad, our Irish pubs are alright

i wasn't having a go. wherever the irish settle, they multiply rapidly - look at the US, australia. shit look at south america. there are pockets of irish descendants located all over the continent, its weird!

villages on the edge of patagonia full of fair skinned, freckly gingers!!!!

That's the thing with Celtic supporters and why there is so many. I can not think of ANY club like that other than Barca , which represents the catalans , and athletic bilbao for its representation of the basque region. Celtic is a representation of the irish dispora, irish republicanism and catholicism. That's why Celtic have the most supporters clubs in America, it's full of them. Same with Australia.

'orrible bastard wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

You would be wrong. Celtic has 1.4M UK fans. Manchester United has 4.7M.* (corrected)

In fact:

Manchester United ( 4.7M)
Liverpool (4.4M)
Arsenal (3.1M)
Chelsea (1.6M)
Celtic (1.4M)

no i'm not wrong. those stats are manipulated. i dont doubt that those clubs have those numbers of 'fans', but what constitutes a fan these days?

you only have to look at this very forum while a match involving those teams is actually being played to realise that a overwhelmingly huge percentage of those 'fans' are nowhere near the stadiums in which the games are being played.

what about fans who have a second team? i'll guarantee that of match attending fans in england. whether they be united, arsenal, liverpool, wolves, hull or leyton orient - the irish catholic ones will invariably suppport celtic. and they are serious about their second team.

whether that would remain the same if they joined the PL remains to be seen. but they generate the same if not more money for celtic than the millions of armchair supporters who are south of the border.

irish fans for instance, there's a good mix of united, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea and to a lesser extent leeds and believe it or not Wolves. but if they are catholic they also support celtic!

there's no way i'm wrong.

You want to argue against a scientific survey conducted by a highly respected and acclaimed sports market analysis company? As of September 2010, those numbers were accurate. Celtic European fanbase stands at 2.6M, that is 2.1M less than the UK fanbase of Manchester United, and 1.8M less than Liverpool.

Obviously the cirteria for a "fan" is the same for all of these clubs given the numbers come from the same source. No matter how much you disagree with it, these are the most accurate numbers you can find without going door to door.

Granted the fanbase does not reflect the ammount of spectators going to games, that's another matter entirely. However, average attendance of Manchester United and Liverpool are greater than the average attendance of Celtic. Celtic averages at 40k, Manchester United averages at 75k, and Liverpool average at 44k. Newcastle United average at an astounding 48k (given the fairly small size of their UK support pool).

No matter what statistic you look at, Celtic does not have more fans than Manchester United or Liverpool.

Link to this study Laurencio?

Also Celtic's average attendance is NOT 40,000 .. Last season it was 48,968 .. Newcastle's was 47,717

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/sco.1/year/2010/scottish-premier-league?cc=5739
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/year/2010/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739

The Maestro wrote:Link to this study Laurencio?

Also Celtic's average attendance is NOT 40,000 .. Last season it was 48,968 .. Newcastle's was 47,717

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/sco.1/year/2010/scottish-premier-league?cc=5739
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/year/2010/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739

Fair enough. I got the numbers from a celtic fan site. I should have bothered to look for a more accurate one. My appologies.

http://en.sportundmarkt.de/fileadmin/Mailing/PK_Football_Top_20_2010/20100909_SPORT_MARKT_Football_Top_20_2010_Abstract_Press.pdf

Unfortunately that one doesn't mention Celitc, so I took the Celtic numbers from another one by the same company using the same crieteria.

http://www.sportundmarkt.de/fileadmin/images/Upload_User/Online_Sales/20090211_SPORT_MARKT_Football_Top_20_ENG.pdf

Celtic's European support is mentioned on the first page as 2.6M and considered quite the achievement considering the league they are in. 46% are outside the UK.

That's pretty good, considering outside of Britain, Celtic have most of their fans in America and Australia, not anywhere else in Europe.

Has this been put to bet or will the deluded toon army still not accept it?

The Maestro wrote:That's pretty good, considering outside of Britain, Celtic have most of their fans in America and Australia, not anywhere else in Europe.

Has this been put to bet or will the deluded toon army still not accept it?

I have a problem with the assumption that you have the most fans in America and Australia when it isn't backed up by anyhting at all.

Laurencio wrote:

'orrible bastard wrote:

no i'm not wrong. those stats are manipulated. i dont doubt that those clubs have those numbers of 'fans', but what constitutes a fan these days?

you only have to look at this very forum while a match involving those teams is actually being played to realise that a overwhelmingly huge percentage of those 'fans' are nowhere near the stadiums in which the games are being played.

what about fans who have a second team? i'll guarantee that of match attending fans in england. whether they be united, arsenal, liverpool, wolves, hull or leyton orient - the irish catholic ones will invariably suppport celtic. and they are serious about their second team.

whether that would remain the same if they joined the PL remains to be seen. but they generate the same if not more money for celtic than the millions of armchair supporters who are south of the border.

irish fans for instance, there's a good mix of united, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea and to a lesser extent leeds and believe it or not Wolves. but if they are catholic they also support celtic!

there's no way i'm wrong.

You want to argue against a scientific survey conducted by a highly respected and acclaimed sports market analysis company? As of September 2010, those numbers were accurate. Celtic European fanbase stands at 2.6M, that is 2.1M less than the UK fanbase of Manchester United, and 1.8M less than Liverpool.

Obviously the cirteria for a "fan" is the same for all of these clubs given the numbers come from the same source. No matter how much you disagree with it, these are the most accurate numbers you can find without going door to door.

Granted the fanbase does not reflect the ammount of spectators going to games, that's another matter entirely. However, average attendance of Manchester United and Liverpool are greater than the average attendance of Celtic. Celtic averages at 40k, Manchester United averages at 75k, and Liverpool average at 44k. Newcastle United average at an astounding 48k (given the fairly small size of their UK support pool).

No matter what statistic you look at, Celtic does not have more fans than Manchester United or Liverpool.

how the fuck is it scientific?

my mate who is a Wolves season ticket holder is also a celtic fan. in this 'scientific' study he would be classed a Wolves fan right?

so no vote for celtic, despite making the trip to park head 10 times a season!!!

scientific?

and not a single newcastle fan gives a fuck....

Laurencio wrote:

The Maestro wrote:That's pretty good, considering outside of Britain, Celtic have most of their fans in America and Australia, not anywhere else in Europe.

Has this been put to bet or will the deluded toon army still not accept it?

I have a problem with the assumption that you have the most fans in America and Australia when it isn't backed up by anyhting at all.

that's not what he said. he said most of celtics foreighn support comes from the US/Australia!

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:and not a single newcastle fan gives a fuck....

i very much doubt they do. who started this argument?

'orrible bastard wrote:

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:and not a single newcastle fan gives a fuck....

i very much doubt they do. who started this argument?

Do i need to say?

'orrible bastard wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

I have a problem with the assumption that you have the most fans in America and Australia when it isn't backed up by anyhting at all.

that's not what he said. he said most of celtics foreighn support comes from the US/Australia!

This, and I don't have to trawl through the fucking internet to satisfy you Laurencio, it's common sense for Christ sake.

'orrible bastard wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

You want to argue against a scientific survey conducted by a highly respected and acclaimed sports market analysis company? As of September 2010, those numbers were accurate. Celtic European fanbase stands at 2.6M, that is 2.1M less than the UK fanbase of Manchester United, and 1.8M less than Liverpool.

Obviously the cirteria for a "fan" is the same for all of these clubs given the numbers come from the same source. No matter how much you disagree with it, these are the most accurate numbers you can find without going door to door.

Granted the fanbase does not reflect the ammount of spectators going to games, that's another matter entirely. However, average attendance of Manchester United and Liverpool are greater than the average attendance of Celtic. Celtic averages at 40k, Manchester United averages at 75k, and Liverpool average at 44k. Newcastle United average at an astounding 48k (given the fairly small size of their UK support pool).

No matter what statistic you look at, Celtic does not have more fans than Manchester United or Liverpool.

how the fuck is it scientific?

my mate who is a Wolves season ticket holder is also a celtic fan. in this 'scientific' study he would be classed a Wolves fan right?

so no vote for celtic, despite making the trip to park head 10 times a season!!!

scientific?

How about you stop making assumptions.

Their methods are entirely scientific, their data pool is well within the ranges required for it to be considered scientific, and it is the most accurate analysis one can do without going door to door. I assume if your friend was part of this survey it would be up to him wether or not to classify himself as a wolves fan, and a celtic fan, or just a wolves fan.

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:

'orrible bastard wrote:

i very much doubt they do. who started this argument?

Do i need to say?

No, we already know it was you, again.

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:Hooper will move, if he is half decent he wont waste his career playing in the SPL.

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:Our attenmdaces are the same
We have a bigger world wide fan base.
wigan would batter you.
Our stadium is so much sexier as well.

The Maestro wrote:

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:
Do i need to say?

No, we already know it was you, again.

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:Hooper will move, if he is half decent he wont waste his career playing in the SPL.

Big_Lad_Pardew wrote:Our attenmdaces are the same
We have a bigger world wide fan base.
wigan would batter you.
Our stadium is so much sexier as well.

The second one was a reply. The first was me trolling... You bite the bait. Its too easy with young angry boys.

The Maestro wrote:

'orrible bastard wrote:

that's not what he said. he said most of celtics foreighn support comes from the US/Australia!

This, and I don't have to trawl through the fucking internet to satisfy you Laurencio, it's common sense for Christ sake.

By what standard is it common sense? From the sources you posted you have an estimated 1M fans in the US. That is significantly less than what you have in Europe.

.

The full top indicates how much I care.