Ban Argentina

ahlycotc wrote:Lux, your example is not comparable. The English culture (at least when it comes to racial slurs) is more common knowledge than Mongolian culture. In addition, "mate" isn't describing anybody's skin color or race.

Lus Suarez wrote:I am Latin American/Spanish.

(and by I, I mean Suarez )

ahlycotc wrote:

Lus Suarez wrote:I am Latin American/Spanish.

(and by I, I mean Suarez )

Right, but it can be offensive to Evra. And I believe Suarez knew that Evra could take it offensively and that's why he did it. He wanted to throw Evra off his game.

Lux wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Lux, your example is not comparable. The English culture (at least when it comes to racial slurs) is more common knowledge than Mongolian culture. In addition, "mate" isn't describing anybody's skin color or race.

Like any of that matters. It could be Spain, Italy, America....whatever.....the country or place is not relevant. Obviously it's not common knowledge enough that people can come here and make such a mistake.

Also....I personally couldn't care less if it's racist or not. If someone called me an "ice cream" or any other race related slur, I would not feel as offended as if I were called a cunt. An insult is an insult, I don't think any are less acceptable just because it refers to your race or skin. When someone uses a racial slur, it has no more effect than if you insult them some other way.

That is sort of a different discussion but, anyway my example of "mate" was irrelevant too. I could go to any country and very easily not know what words are acceptable and what words are not. We might live in a globalised society but that doesn't mean everyone knows everything (would've thought someone from America would know that all too well).

Also a final point........why does it matter so much that Evra is offended? I could care less personally. People are offended all the time, but we can't accommodate for everyone. When some people are offended, maybe they just need to get over themselves and understand that the world doesn't revolve around their opinions, and there are other cultures and people who do things differently. Personally I'm bored of people being offended and having to always think about what I say or do because I could end up losing my whole career or even my life because some person was offended. How about this.....I'm offended that they're offended....punish them?

Lus Suarez wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

Right, but it can be offensive to Evra. And I believe Suarez knew that Evra could take it offensively and that's why he did it. He wanted to throw Evra off his game.

That is a huge accusation. Why would Suarez do that? Suarez isn't the complete cunt most of you guys would like to think he is.

ahlycotc wrote:Just because you don't find something offensive, doesn't mean everyone else should feel the same.

ahlycotc wrote:The reason most people find racial slurs more offensive than non-racial slurs is because of the history of the usage of the term and the implications that someone is under you because of their skin color. You can call someone a cunt for doing something you don't appreciate. But insulting them because of their skin color instead of their actions is a different thing.

What’s in a word? Whichever of the two words allegedly used, no natural equivalent exists in English. It has been used both as defence and prosecution that both the words – negro and negrito ­– might be used affectionately. Here, perhaps, there is a parallel. The word ‘pal’ might be used affectionately. Indeed, if you were to explain it to a non-native speaker, you would describe it, perhaps, as a friendly placeholder. Have it growled at you in Glaswegian, though, in the sentence “You looking at me, pal?” and there is nothing affectionate about it. The meaning of a word, especially a placeholder, lies in no small part in the delivery.

But what of the reference to colour? In England, that is clearly intolerable. Of that there is no question. Even in an age when we live, largely peacefully, in a multi-cultural society, we are not a country who like to mention colour. And, of course, the offence took place in England. Our house, our rules? Fine. More importantly, the central tenet of what can and cannot be defined as racist has long been seen not as the intention of the perpetrator but the interpretation of the victim.

But, then, in the plaintiff’s defence, his own cultural heritage, his own understanding of what is acceptable. In his homeland, it seems, such words are used simply as descriptives, and certainly without enormously offensive overtones. The Argentines, for example, pepper their speech with the word “che”. Mate, pal, man. It is used almost unconsciously. It can be substituted for a more personalised term, though. Rubio. Gordo. As one of the defendant’s countrymen put it, this is a place where, if you have a big nose, your nickname is big nose. A big head, and it’s big head. If you have darker skin – not black, just darker – then you are negro. Not “a negro”. Simply negro. Sensitive? No, not at all. But deliberately offensive, designed to wound and directed to hurt? Not really.

Lu❣s Suarez wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:People are missing the point. It's not the words that Suarez used, it's the manner in which he used it. You might go around calling your friends black or ice creams, but you don't go to an opponent and try to piss him off by calling him black. What was Suarez expecting Evra to do? Suarez might not be a racist, but in this case, he used a slur to offend someone to throw him off his game. I don't see any context in which Suraez could have used negro or negrito towards Evra that would make it acceptable. From my understanding, Suarez and Evra are not friends.

Suarez said "Porque Negro?" which I doubt can be seen as a slur.

Suarez and Evra aren't friends but that isn't the point. People can say "Hey Bro pass me that pencil over there" in English without the two people necessarily being brothers or friends.

Besides, that is clutching at straws. Evra obviously found the word 'negro' itself offensive, not whatever context Suarez meant. (Rightfully so as well, Evra doesn't speak Spanish)

Lux wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Just because you don't find something offensive, doesn't mean everyone else should feel the same.

It doesn't mean that I should care either. Sometimes when people are offended I'm upset, and sometimes I'm just pissed off at them. I don't live to please everyone else, you can't go through life without compromise.

ahlycotc wrote:The reason most people find racial slurs more offensive than non-racial slurs is because of the history of the usage of the term and the implications that someone is under you because of their skin color. You can call someone a cunt for doing something you don't appreciate. But insulting them because of their skin color instead of their actions is a different thing.

Well boo hoo, their ancestors were mistreated so they get to feel sorry for themselves? I refuse to feel guilty for what people I give a damn about did in the past.

I see racism as a joke, one of the best things about my IT course is how diverse it is.....and we all make racist jokes on a daily basis with no hard feelings. Would I rather have that, or some moany bitch? If people are being aggressively offensive then OK...I would react the same....but I'm talking about generally insulting behaviour/actions whether they are racist or not.....that doesn't necessarily mean anything that could be perceived as abusive in a racial way should not be tolerated. You have to draw the line somewhere.....if you don't then people will moan about everything.

Saying "Negrito" to someone has no racist intent. Because of that I don't really care about it at all. If Evra wants to be offended about it even after he has found out that he is mistaken of the meaning of the word...then that's his problem IMO. I would say the same about any person, of any race or culture.

dena wrote:Che pretty much nailed the whole topic.

Beowulf wrote:

dena wrote:Che pretty much nailed the whole topic.

What a surprise. You Americans just constantly agree with each other on here.

ahlycotc wrote:

Beowulf wrote:

What a surprise. You Americans just constantly agree with each other on here.

It's hard to argue with a bunch of smart people.

Lux wrote:Also another thing. Britain is always bowing down and accepting other's cultures. All we ever do is try not to offend others by allowing them to practice their cultures.

Dan wrote:


Disgusting.

Weather130 wrote:If the word Negro is so horrible, why was it included on the 2010 US Census form? http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-01-06/news/17944290_1_census-form-census-bureau-older-blacks

ViVaRooney wrote:

Dan wrote:


Disgusting.

if they did then in an english football match ofcourse they would be banned/punished... just cause its acceptable in their culture doesnt mean it is acceptable here. if you are playing here then dont be ignorant of the culture

Fonseca wrote:You live in a country where there is a high majority of white people and it thrives on sophisticated use of language, when the fuck are you likely to be a victim of racism

If you lived in Zimbabwe I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying the same nonsense, you're entitled to your opinion Lux and I respect that but you're commenting on something you're really clueless about... A LOT

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Is it? I'm British and I don't bow down to accept other cultures. I certainly do things other than 'try not to offend others'. When you talk about 'Britain', what do you refer to? It's obviously not the British people.

Lu❣s Suarez wrote:

ViVaRooney wrote:

if they did then in an english football match ofcourse they would be banned/punished... just cause its acceptable in their culture doesnt mean it is acceptable here. if you are playing here then dont be ignorant of the culture

You idiot. Negro is Black. Is the word black offensive now?

Lux wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Is it? I'm British and I don't bow down to accept other cultures. I certainly do things other than 'try not to offend others'. When you talk about 'Britain', what do you refer to? It's obviously not the British people.

I am talking about the stance of the government and the general attitude that has come with it. A lot of people don't have that view but some have bought into the idea that we should accept others and as a result we lose our own rights.

ahlycotc wrote:

Lu❣s Suarez wrote:You idiot. Negro is Black. Is the word black offensive now?

Depending on the context. Polska, don't act like Suarez is just being observant.