Ian Holloway on Wayne Rooney situation

Steven Gerrard is a perfect example of true commitment, his loyalty to Liverpool is unmatched.

Danny B wrote:Obviously, I never said they're not. We went 4 years without a title in our last one, that had never happened in the Premier League before (with us anyway). What does he think's going to happen? Stop challenging for major honours, drop out of the top 4 etc...?

I weren't even talking about Rooney. I just said transitional periods are hard cos Arsenal are just getting to the end of their 5 year one.

Manchester United are not in a transitional period, that is just nonsense. A club that consistently finishes in the top 2 is not going through a transitional period.

James wrote:
Proves you relied on him. What you are basically saying is, if Rooney didn't have his best ever season you would of probably finished 3rd at max and ended with a Carling Cup trophy only.

Also, getting near a trophy means nothing, just as you have drummed into Arsenal fans mind the past 5 or whatever years its been since they won one. How frustrated do you think Rooney is, considering he had the season of his life and still only won a Carling Cup. The trophy that the top teams don't actually care about or put their first 11 out in.

Of course that's frustrating that he had his best ever season and we only ended up with the Carling Cup, that's very understandable. But what isn't, is how he's gone from saying he's at the best club in the world and wanting to end his career here, to suddenly telling us he wants to leave. It's not understandable, and I don't know of any United fan willing to accept the reasons he has given.

AriseForLife wrote:Manchester United are not in a transitional period, that is just nonsense. A club that consistently finishes in the top 2 is not going through a transitional period.

We won't finish in the top 2 when Rooney goes, we'll be lucky to even finish in the top 4.

JMB_94 wrote:Steven Gerrard is a perfect example of true commitment, his loyalty to Liverpool is unmatched.

Bad example. Gerrard had to be talked out of leaving Liverpool by Rafa otherwise he would be playing for Chelsea.

Francesco Totti is the definition of loyal top-class player. Regardless of what people may think about him, he is loyal to Roma and could have left Rome on so many occasions and made so much more money and had more success, but chose to stick with his boyhood club.

That is loyalty.

AriseForLife wrote:Manchester United are not in a transitional period, that is just nonsense. A club that consistently finishes in the top 2 is not going through a transitional period.

We could end up being in one though. Van der Sar, Neville, Giggs, Scholes will all be retired within 2 years (ok, Neville's not as big as a loss than the others), in 2 years Berbatov will be 31 (weak point, I know), Nani will hopefully be one of the best players in the world, and when we have them, they're picked off And to cap it all off, Fergie will be gone within maybe 4 years.

Royal Flush wrote:

AriseForLife wrote:Manchester United are not in a transitional period, that is just nonsense. A club that consistently finishes in the top 2 is not going through a transitional period.

We won't finish in the top 2 when Rooney goes, we'll be lucky to even finish in the top 4.

That's the only thing you have to worry about. Arsenal were going through shit, players leaving and lack of money for transfer because of the new stadium. Luckily we have Wenger as a manager and he's kept us in the top 4 and reasonably competitive, now we've got through this shit period we can start pushing on again now.

Danny B wrote:

James wrote:
Proves you relied on him. What you are basically saying is, if Rooney didn't have his best ever season you would of probably finished 3rd at max and ended with a Carling Cup trophy only.

Also, getting near a trophy means nothing, just as you have drummed into Arsenal fans mind the past 5 or whatever years its been since they won one. How frustrated do you think Rooney is, considering he had the season of his life and still only won a Carling Cup. The trophy that the top teams don't actually care about or put their first 11 out in.

Of course that's frustrating that he had his best ever season and we only ended up with the Carling Cup, that's very understandable. But what isn't, is how he's gone from saying he's at the best club in the world and wanting to end his career here, to suddenly telling us he wants to leave. It's not understandable, and I don't know of any United fan willing to accept the reasons he has given.

People do change feelings you know. 8 months is a long time, you can easily fall in and out of love in 8 months. He obviously fell in love with the club then realised things werent quite as he thought they would be and was given no reassurances. You also have to remember, he is an Everton fan at heart. No matter what has happened that will never ever change. He has no connection to Man Utd except he plays for them currently. He probably hated the club growing up like most other Everton fans.

Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

Danny B wrote:

James wrote:
Proves you relied on him. What you are basically saying is, if Rooney didn't have his best ever season you would of probably finished 3rd at max and ended with a Carling Cup trophy only.

Also, getting near a trophy means nothing, just as you have drummed into Arsenal fans mind the past 5 or whatever years its been since they won one. How frustrated do you think Rooney is, considering he had the season of his life and still only won a Carling Cup. The trophy that the top teams don't actually care about or put their first 11 out in.

Of course that's frustrating that he had his best ever season and we only ended up with the Carling Cup, that's very understandable. But what isn't, is how he's gone from saying he's at the best club in the world and wanting to end his career here, to suddenly telling us he wants to leave. It's not understandable, and I don't know of any United fan willing to accept the reasons he has given.

If i were a United fan i would find it utterly unacceptable, Rooney was saying how he's committed his future to Man United 6-7 months ago, but as soon as they hit a blip or a rough patch he wants out. It really shows him up for his lack of commitment.

Royal Flush wrote:

AriseForLife wrote:Manchester United are not in a transitional period, that is just nonsense. A club that consistently finishes in the top 2 is not going through a transitional period.

We won't finish in the top 2 when Rooney goes, we'll be lucky to even finish in the top 4.

That remains to be seen. In my opinion Manchester United will be fine without Rooney. You will stay in the top 4 because I can't see Tottenham mounting a consistent threat to the top three clubs in Arsenal, Chelsea, and Manchester United. People wanna stay on the City bandwagon, but until they actually do something worth merit I am not a believer.

Royal Flush wrote:We won't finish in the top 2 when Rooney goes, we'll be lucky to even finish in the top 4.

That's kinda the whole point. Can you see us dropping out of automatic CL qualifying places, and not mouting a serious challenge to win the CL (we have done for the past 4 seasons) with Rooney in our squad, with him as our star player? I certainly can't. Without him, of course you can. That begs the question, why does he want to leave, and face doing this to the club he's been at for 6 years and the club he wanted to stay at for life only a few months ago?

AriseForLife wrote:

Scuba Steve wrote:

Danny B wrote:Player power isn't it. Rooney (and his agent) have virtually forced himself a move away from Old Trafford, and he still (and probably never will) give a good enough reason

And the fact we've payed is wages at over 100k a week for just over 6 years, injured or fit, in form or out of form, and he repays us with this bullshit

His reasoning for wanting to leave is supposed to be good enough for you? And surely all the goals he scored, all the games he helped win, all the trophies he was part of was more than enough repayment?

His reasoning was pure trash. How can a player for Manchester United even form the words not meeting my ambition when you are part of a club that challenges on all fronts year after year? Sorry but I do not buy it. Sorry, but the things that Wayne has achieved for the club are not equal repayment when you look at the amount of money invested in bringing him to the club as a kid, coaching him, nurturing him etc and then suddenly he decides that he doesn't want to be at the club any more. He has every right to want to have options like any other person in a job, but when you sign a contract you should be forced to honor that deal or face penalties.

How is he not honoring his contract? And what are the penalties one should face for not honoring a contract?

Danny B wrote:

AriseForLife wrote:Manchester United are not in a transitional period, that is just nonsense. A club that consistently finishes in the top 2 is not going through a transitional period.

We could end up being in one though. Van der Sar, Neville, Giggs, Scholes will all be retired within 2 years (ok, Neville's not as big as a loss than the others), in 2 years Berbatov will be 31 (weak point, I know), Nani will hopefully be one of the best players in the world, and when we have them, they're picked off And to cap it all off, Fergie will be gone within maybe 4 years.

Yes eventually Manchester United will go through one, as all clubs eventually have to face a period of transition. Lucky for you, you have had money and Ferguson to keep you level for the last 10+ years. Depending on who replaces Ferguson that will determine what happens with the club.

James wrote:
People do change feelings you know. 8 months is a long time, you can easily fall in and out of love in 8 months. He obviously fell in love with the club then realised things werent quite as he thought they would be and was given no reassurances. You also have to remember, he is an Everton fan at heart. No matter what has happened that will never ever change. He has no connection to Man Utd except he plays for them currently. He probably hated the club growing up like most other Everton fans.

Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

8 months? He said it firstly in March, and I'm sure prior to the WC he mentioned something similar. What changed between late May and mid August?

Danny B wrote:

James wrote:
People do change feelings you know. 8 months is a long time, you can easily fall in and out of love in 8 months. He obviously fell in love with the club then realised things werent quite as he thought they would be and was given no reassurances. You also have to remember, he is an Everton fan at heart. No matter what has happened that will never ever change. He has no connection to Man Utd except he plays for them currently. He probably hated the club growing up like most other Everton fans.

Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

8 months? He said it firstly in March, and I'm sure prior to the WC he mentioned something similar. What changed between late May and mid August?

The fact we haven't gone out and spent £100m in the transfer window, like he obviously wanted.

Scuba Steve wrote:
How is he not honoring his contract? And what are the penalties one should face for not honoring a contract?

He isn't honoring his contact because he is saying he wants out. When he signed the deal he agreed to be there for 'X' amount of years and now suddenly he is unhappy and wants to leave.

I don't know what the penalties should be, but being able to buyout your deal because you have 3+ years and are at least 24 years old is a shit rule in my opinion. To a degree I can see why article-17 exists, but overall it has the potential to really screw clubs.

How would you feel if you paid £27M for a teenager, developed him into one of the best players in the world and then were told that he is going to buy out his deal for £5M and you get shit for it?

Danny B wrote:

James wrote:
People do change feelings you know. 8 months is a long time, you can easily fall in and out of love in 8 months. He obviously fell in love with the club then realised things werent quite as he thought they would be and was given no reassurances. You also have to remember, he is an Everton fan at heart. No matter what has happened that will never ever change. He has no connection to Man Utd except he plays for them currently. He probably hated the club growing up like most other Everton fans.

Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

8 months? He said it firstly in March, and I'm sure prior to the WC he mentioned something similar. What changed between late May and mid August?

United didn't sign any big players nor have they made any attempt to. Its quite obvious Man United aren't finishing in the top 2 this year.I've read it was 8 months ago from articles i've read with that quote on.


You ignored my last point though:
Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

Chamz|94 wrote:
The fact we haven't gone out and spent £100m in the transfer window, like he obviously wanted.

Yeah, but it seems to me he hasn't taken into account the market since 2009 has been a little bit crazy, and lacking in value, and that we and the Glazers are in huge debt, and have to spend carefully.

Danny B wrote:

Chamz|94 wrote:
The fact we haven't gone out and spent £100m in the transfer window, like he obviously wanted.

Yeah, but it seems to me he hasn't taken into account the market since 2009 has been a little bit crazy, and lacking in value, and that we and the Glazers are in huge debt, and have to spend carefully.

Maybe that's the reason why he wants to leave. Still a pathetic reason after committing your future to the club only 6 months ago.

AriseForLife wrote:

Scuba Steve wrote:
How is he not honoring his contract? And what are the penalties one should face for not honoring a contract?

He isn't honoring his contact because he is saying he wants out. When he signed the deal he agreed to be there for 'X' amount of years and now suddenly he is unhappy and wants to leave.

I don't know what the penalties should be, but being able to buyout your deal because you have 3+ years and are at least 24 years old is a shit rule in my opinion.

How would you feel if you paid £27M for a teenager, developed him into one of the best players in the world and then were told that he is going to buy out his deal for £5M and you get shit for it?

Can't buy your 3 year contract out. He can only pay off the remaining year of his contract as far as i'm aware. Alternatively they can keep him for the rest of the 18 months. Remember, football is a job. If anything, they are lucky they can tie them down to big contracts. In normal work you can hand your notice in and be out of their in a couple of months.

Maybe we should change the rules to reflect normal work?

JMB_94 wrote:

Danny B wrote:

Chamz|94 wrote:
The fact we haven't gone out and spent £100m in the transfer window, like he obviously wanted.

Yeah, but it seems to me he hasn't taken into account the market since 2009 has been a little bit crazy, and lacking in value, and that we and the Glazers are in huge debt, and have to spend carefully.

Maybe that's the reason why he wants to leave. Still a pathetic reason after committing your future to the club only 6 months ago.

The reason he wants to leave is purely down to money, nothing else.

AriseForLife wrote:

Scuba Steve wrote:
How is he not honoring his contract? And what are the penalties one should face for not honoring a contract?

He isn't honoring his contact because he is saying he wants out. When he signed the deal he agreed to be there for 'X' amount of years and now suddenly he is unhappy and wants to leave.

I don't know what the penalties should be, but being able to buyout your deal because you have 3+ years and are at least 24 years old is a shit rule in my opinion. To a degree I can see why article-17 exists, but overall it has the potential to really screw clubs.

How would you feel if you paid £27M for a teenager, developed him into one of the best players in the world and then were told that he is going to buy out his deal for £5M and you get shit for it?

Rooney only said he's not going to renew his contract, he never once handed in a transfer request.

So really he is honouring his contract.

James wrote:

Danny B wrote:

James wrote:
People do change feelings you know. 8 months is a long time, you can easily fall in and out of love in 8 months. He obviously fell in love with the club then realised things werent quite as he thought they would be and was given no reassurances. You also have to remember, he is an Everton fan at heart. No matter what has happened that will never ever change. He has no connection to Man Utd except he plays for them currently. He probably hated the club growing up like most other Everton fans.

Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

8 months? He said it firstly in March, and I'm sure prior to the WC he mentioned something similar. What changed between late May and mid August?

United didn't sign any big players nor have they made any attempt to. Its quite obvious Man United aren't finishing in the top 2 this year.I've read it was 8 months ago from articles i've read with that quote on.


You ignored my last point though:
Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

We made attempts to sign both Benzema and Villa. Ferguson pulled out of the Benzema one because he was unwilling to pay over £30m for him, and was resigned to the fact Villa was always staying in Spain.

I never mentioned accepting reasons, I said no United fan does accept the reasons Rooney has given, because they're total bullshit

Danny B wrote:

Chamz|94 wrote:
The fact we haven't gone out and spent £100m in the transfer window, like he obviously wanted.

Yeah, but it seems to me he hasn't taken into account the market since 2009 has been a little bit crazy, and lacking in value, and that we and the Glazers are in huge debt, and have to spend carefully.

He doesn't want to be at that type of club though. If he wanted that he could of stayed at Everton.

Danny B wrote:

James wrote:

Danny B wrote:

James wrote:
People do change feelings you know. 8 months is a long time, you can easily fall in and out of love in 8 months. He obviously fell in love with the club then realised things werent quite as he thought they would be and was given no reassurances. You also have to remember, he is an Everton fan at heart. No matter what has happened that will never ever change. He has no connection to Man Utd except he plays for them currently. He probably hated the club growing up like most other Everton fans.

Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

8 months? He said it firstly in March, and I'm sure prior to the WC he mentioned something similar. What changed between late May and mid August?

United didn't sign any big players nor have they made any attempt to. Its quite obvious Man United aren't finishing in the top 2 this year.I've read it was 8 months ago from articles i've read with that quote on.


You ignored my last point though:
Its funny you mention accepting the reasons when you quite clearly want the owners out because they are putting loads of debt on the club and you aren't making big signings anymore.

We made attempts to sign both Benzema and Villa. Ferguson pulled out of the Benzema one because he was unwilling to pay over £30m for him, and was resigned to the fact Villa was always staying in Spain.

I never mentioned accepting reasons, I said no United fan does accept the reasons Rooney has given, because they're total bullshit

So if they are bullshit they why are you protesting at the club. Yes it is in debt but you all think you have a squad capable at challenging for all trophies.

Chamz|94 wrote:

JMB_94 wrote:

Danny B wrote:

Chamz|94 wrote:
The fact we haven't gone out and spent £100m in the transfer window, like he obviously wanted.

Yeah, but it seems to me he hasn't taken into account the market since 2009 has been a little bit crazy, and lacking in value, and that we and the Glazers are in huge debt, and have to spend carefully.

Maybe that's the reason why he wants to leave. Still a pathetic reason after committing your future to the club only 6 months ago.

The reason he wants to leave is purely down to money, nothing else.

No it isn't, it's basically down to the clubs "lack of ambition" becuase aparently they aren't attracting the best players in the world and they havn't spent £100 million in the summer transfer window like Man City.

Seriously Wayne...

James wrote:
He doesn't want to be at that type of club though. If he wanted that he could of stayed at Everton.

He wants to win trophies, we do win trophies. He's won 9 with us in 6 years, and 26 individual awards since joining us in 2004. What makes him think he won't win any more trophies with us?

He wants to move because of money, and that's a load of rubbish. He makes a 6 figure sum every week. Every person in the world would do pretty much anything to earn what he's on, greedy bastard

James wrote:

So if they are bullshit they why are you protesting at the club. Yes it is in debt but you all think you have a squad capable at challenging for all trophies.

1. No other player has come out and said what Rooney is giving as his reasons to wanting to leave.

2. We do have a squad capable of challenging for trophies

AriseForLife wrote:

Scuba Steve wrote:
How is he not honoring his contract? And what are the penalties one should face for not honoring a contract?

He isn't honoring his contact because he is saying he wants out. When he signed the deal he agreed to be there for 'X' amount of years and now suddenly he is unhappy and wants to leave.

I don't know what the penalties should be, but being able to buyout your deal because you have 3+ years and are at least 24 years old is a shit rule in my opinion. To a degree I can see why article-17 exists, but overall it has the potential to really screw clubs.

How would you feel if you paid £27M for a teenager, developed him into one of the best players in the world and then were told that he is going to buy out his deal for £5M and you get shit for it?

All he has said is that he is not signing a new contract. Not sure how that is not honoring a contract. Many people leave (teams, companies, etc. etc.) at the end of a contract. Or has he told you personally that he is going to buy himself out in the summer?