Is Xavi a top 10 CM all time?

Xavi's best performances have always come at a time when the rest of his team was performing excellently. Put Xavi in a poor team and his so-called influence and control will evaporate instantaneously. He thrives on the competence of others whereas Zidane still managed to excel despite playing for average teams.

BladeGunner14 wrote:Xavi's best performances have always come at a time when the rest of his team was performing excellently. Put Xavi in a poor team and his so-called influence and control will evaporate instantaneously. He thrives on the competence of others whereas Zidane still managed to excel despite playing for average teams.

I think it's more that the team plays well because Xavi plays well.

Chris wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Disagree about Eto'o but I wouldn't argue too hardly about the other 2.

I never said he was the most important, I said he was pivotal. He is a machine - bosses every game no matter what importance. Gary fucking Neville?

I brung out Gary Neville because you played the blind idiot card.. the trophy card. The one that says a player like Ryan Giggs is better than Marc Overmars because he won more and was "pivotal" yet in my eyes Overmars shits all over him prime v prime.

Overmars isn't better than Giggs so that's a shit point.

I'm against "the trophy card" for fringe players like David May, but it's a fair argument for key players.

I can't actually remember the last time Xavi played poorly.

SBSP wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:Xavi's best performances have always come at a time when the rest of his team was performing excellently. Put Xavi in a poor team and his so-called influence and control will evaporate instantaneously. He thrives on the competence of others whereas Zidane still managed to excel despite playing for average teams.

I think it's more that the team plays well because Xavi plays well.

If Xavi was in the current Liverpool team i don't think the likes of Henderson, Downing, Adam, Carroll and Carragher would play brilliantly just because he made 115 passes a game.

Chris wrote:

SBSP wrote:I think it's more that the team plays well because Xavi plays well.

If Xavi was in the current Liverpool team i don't think the likes of Henderson, Downing, Adam, Carroll and Carragher would play brilliantly just because he made 115 passes a game.

It'd be pretty hard for a team to play worse if one of their players was making 100+ passes a game.

BladeGunner14 wrote:Xavi's best performances have always come at a time when the rest of his team was performing excellently. Put Xavi in a poor team and his so-called influence and control will evaporate instantaneously. He thrives on the competence of others whereas Zidane still managed to excel despite playing for average teams.

this is more pure garbage, completely consequential reply with no argument value

i could say, put ronaldo in a team full of league 1 players and lets see how effective he is when he cannot even get any service. what is wrong with relying on surrounding players to influence entire team. this is a teamsport u remember?

your reply is possibly one of most illogical post i have seen

zidane played for average teams? since when was juventus real madrid and france average teams? he win many titles with all these teams

SBSP wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:Xavi's best performances have always come at a time when the rest of his team was performing excellently. Put Xavi in a poor team and his so-called influence and control will evaporate instantaneously. He thrives on the competence of others whereas Zidane still managed to excel despite playing for average teams.

I think it's more that the team plays well because Xavi plays well.

No, it isn't. What was Xavi doing for the first decade of his career? He was never considered as integral as he is now. During the 6 year trophy drought of the early 2000's, no one was saying "Barcelona are playing shit but look at Xavi still carrying them on his shoulders." As soon as Messi developed and became the footballer he is now, Xavi began performing much better. Xavi plays well when the team suits him.

Chris wrote:

SBSP wrote:I think it's more that the team plays well because Xavi plays well.

If Xavi was in the current Liverpool team i don't think the likes of Henderson, Downing, Adam, Carroll and Carragher would play brilliantly just because he made 115 passes a game.

True, on the other hand Barcelona wouldn't have won the 3 leagues in a row and 2 Champions Leagues in 3 years without him.

mauro=beast wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:Xavi's best performances have always come at a time when the rest of his team was performing excellently. Put Xavi in a poor team and his so-called influence and control will evaporate instantaneously. He thrives on the competence of others whereas Zidane still managed to excel despite playing for average teams.

this is more pure garbage, completely consequential reply with no argument value

i could say, put ronaldo in a team full of league 1 players and lets see how effective he is when he cannot even get any service. what is wrong with relying on surrounding players to influence entire team. this is a teamsport u remember?

your reply is possibly one of most illogical post i have seen

zidane played for average teams? since when was juventus real madrid and france average teams? he win many titles with all these teams

Your personal attack on me reduces the weight of your argument and makes you look terribly foolish. Instead of being so ridiculously impulsive, you should take a second before rambling some nonsensical excrement. When did I say that we should put Xavi in a league 1 team and see how he manages? Learn to fucking read. The France team that Zidane played with in 2006 was below average, it was frankly shit. I'd like to see how Xavi manages in a team like that.

Jamie wrote:

Chris wrote:
If Xavi was in the current Liverpool team i don't think the likes of Henderson, Downing, Adam, Carroll and Carragher would play brilliantly just because he made 115 passes a game.

True, on the other hand Barcelona wouldn't have won the 3 leagues in a row and 2 Champions Leagues in 3 years without him.

Maybe not but thats over the last 4 years. Was Xavi even considered in the top 5 CM's 5 years ago? Probably not.

Why does it matter who was better if that's not the question?

Also Mauro why are you giving shit about Gerrard? When he was at his best he was a completely different style to Xavi but far more direct and had just as much influence on football matches.

BladeGunner14 wrote:

mauro=beast wrote:

this is more pure garbage, completely consequential reply with no argument value

i could say, put ronaldo in a team full of league 1 players and lets see how effective he is when he cannot even get any service. what is wrong with relying on surrounding players to influence entire team. this is a teamsport u remember?

your reply is possibly one of most illogical post i have seen

zidane played for average teams? since when was juventus real madrid and france average teams? he win many titles with all these teams

Your personal attack on me reduces the weight of your argument and makes you look terribly foolish. Instead of being so ridiculously impulsive, you should take a second before rambling some nonsensical excrement. When did I say that we should put Xavi in a league 1 team and see how he manages? Learn to fucking read. The France team that Zidane played with in 2006 was below average, it was frankly shit. I'd like to see how Xavi manages in a team like that.

eheheheheh you really need to brush up on your history

zidane, trezeguet, henry, makalele, gallas, thuram, vieira all shit and were still able to stroll qualification with so many injuries and held home record of undefeated for over a year. i really do not think u know what u were are talking about

Chris wrote:

Jamie wrote:

True, on the other hand Barcelona wouldn't have won the 3 leagues in a row and 2 Champions Leagues in 3 years without him.

Maybe not but thats over the last 4 years. Was Xavi even considered in the top 5 CM's 5 years ago? Probably not.

Probably not no, when his 4 years are as good as they have been though it's a moot point.

(He was played as a defensive midfielder which didn't suit him earlier in his career, once he moved position he stepped it up)

mauro=beast wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:

Your personal attack on me reduces the weight of your argument and makes you look terribly foolish. Instead of being so ridiculously impulsive, you should take a second before rambling some nonsensical excrement. When did I say that we should put Xavi in a league 1 team and see how he manages? Learn to fucking read. The France team that Zidane played with in 2006 was below average, it was frankly shit. I'd like to see how Xavi manages in a team like that.

eheheheheh you really need to brush up on your history

zidane, trezeguet, henry, makalele, gallas, thuram, vieira all shit and were still able to stroll qualification with so many injuries and held home record of undefeated for over a year. i really do not think u know what u were are talking about

Makelele*

Chris wrote:

Jamie wrote:

True, on the other hand Barcelona wouldn't have won the 3 leagues in a row and 2 Champions Leagues in 3 years without him.

Maybe not but thats over the last 4 years. Was Xavi even considered in the top 5 CM's 5 years ago? Probably not.

actually xavi was la liga player of the year about 6 years ago if my memory is corect

Chris wrote:

mauro=beast wrote:
eheheheheh you really need to brush up on your history

zidane, trezeguet, henry, makalele, gallas, thuram, vieira all shit and were still able to stroll qualification with so many injuries and held home record of undefeated for over a year. i really do not think u know what u were are talking about

Makelele*

Makélélé*

SBSP wrote:

Chris wrote:
Makelele*

Makélélé*

mauro=beast wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:

Your personal attack on me reduces the weight of your argument and makes you look terribly foolish. Instead of being so ridiculously impulsive, you should take a second before rambling some nonsensical excrement. When did I say that we should put Xavi in a league 1 team and see how he manages? Learn to fucking read. The France team that Zidane played with in 2006 was below average, it was frankly shit. I'd like to see how Xavi manages in a team like that.

eheheheheh you really need to brush up on your history

zidane, trezeguet, henry, makalele, gallas, thuram, vieira all shit and were still able to stroll qualification with so many injuries and held home record of undefeated for over a year. i really do not think u know what u were are talking about

Again, your incompetence is typified by your assault on me. Most of these players were way past it at the time. Trezeguet wasn't even starting, Makalele, Vieira and Thuram were at an age where they were no longer able to perform consistently at the highest level and you're forgetting the most important part, Raymond Domenech. Never has such an idiotic manager been made to look so good thanks to one player. Re-watch the World Cup and you'll see what Zidane was managing despite having to play under a moron and a vastly deteriorating squad.

Jamie wrote:

Chris wrote:
Maybe not but thats over the last 4 years. Was Xavi even considered in the top 5 CM's 5 years ago? Probably not.

Probably not no, when his 4 years are as good as they have been though it's a moot point.

(He was played as a defensive midfielder which didn't suit him earlier in his career, once he moved position he stepped it up)

You're saying Xavi played defensive midfielder when Barcelona had Van Bommel and Edmilson? I didn't watch them back then but i'd be very surprised.

Jamie wrote:

Chris wrote:
Maybe not but thats over the last 4 years. Was Xavi even considered in the top 5 CM's 5 years ago? Probably not.

Probably not no, when his 4 years are as good as they have been though it's a moot point.

(He was played as a defensive midfielder which didn't suit him earlier in his career, once he moved position he stepped it up)

indeed this is another aspect, these people are assuming that the development of all players is the same from their debut to the middle of career to their end . it is clear that xavi is in best form of his career last few years but does not mean he is insignifant previously

chris favorite little player of all time was a decent level player for some years and then became a mediocre winger in serie a before he join arsenal. i think u cannot base a career over thos years in france and juventus can you?

i think difference for xavi, he has been a first team contributor to barcelona since teen years and has peaked in recent years. many best players of all time have followed same career path

whenever he wins with barcelona they claim its becausew of messi, when he wins with spain they claim its with iniesta, these minions can never be satisfied

Chris wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Probably not no, when his 4 years are as good as they have been though it's a moot point.

(He was played as a defensive midfielder which didn't suit him earlier in his career, once he moved position he stepped it up)

You're saying Xavi played defensive midfielder when Barcelona had Van Bommel and Edmilson? I didn't watch them back then but i'd be very surprised.

Van Bommel only played for Barcelona for 1 season.

He did yes, it stalled his development for a bit.

BladeGunner14 wrote:No, it isn't. What was Xavi doing for the first decade of his career? He was never considered as integral as he is now. During the 6 year trophy drought of the early 2000's, no one was saying "Barcelona are playing shit but look at Xavi still carrying them on his shoulders." As soon as Ronaldinho signed for Barcelona, Xavi began performing much better. Xavi plays well when the team suits him.

Corrected.

mauro=beast wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Probably not no, when his 4 years are as good as they have been though it's a moot point.

(He was played as a defensive midfielder which didn't suit him earlier in his career, once he moved position he stepped it up)

indeed this is another aspect, these people are assuming that the development of all players is the same from their debut to the middle of career to their end . it is clear that xavi is in best form of his career last few years but does not mean he is insignifant previously

chris favorite little player of all time was a decent level player for some years and then became a mediocre winger in serie a before he join arsenal. i think u cannot base a career over thos years in france and juventus can you?

i think difference for xavi, he has been a first team contributor to barcelona since teen years and has peaked in recent years. many best players of all time have followed same career path

whenever he wins with barcelona they claim its becausew of messi, when he wins with spain they claim its with iniesta, these minions can never be satisfied

Who is my favorite little player?

BladeGunner14 wrote:

mauro=beast wrote:
eheheheheh you really need to brush up on your history

zidane, trezeguet, henry, makalele, gallas, thuram, vieira all shit and were still able to stroll qualification with so many injuries and held home record of undefeated for over a year. i really do not think u know what u were are talking about

Again, your incompetence is typified by your assault on me. Most of these players were way past it at the time. Trezeguet wasn't even starting, Makalele, Vieira and Thuram were at an age where they were no longer able to perform consistently at the highest level and you're forgetting the most important part, Raymond Domenech. Never has such an idiotic manager been made to look so good thanks to one player. Re-watch the World Cup and you'll see what Zidane was managing despite having to play under a moron and a vastly deteriorating squad.

i was living in france at this time i know this stuff like simple maths. some little kid who assumes these players past their prime???? thuram and trezeguet wherre the best players in serie a in the season leading to world cup. vieira was also extremely good. makelele past his prime? was he not integral player to chelsea epl title that season

i cannot even say u base these things of football manager, because it is showing even less knowledge then that

also domenech was very popular coach at this time and france played good football in his first years of his reign. being out played by brasil and then italy in that tiome was not even bad.

really, you must learn this stuff first before u make a new comment on this thread

Jamie wrote:

Chris wrote:
You're saying Xavi played defensive midfielder when Barcelona had Van Bommel and Edmilson? I didn't watch them back then but i'd be very surprised.

Van Bommel only played for Barcelona for 1 season.

He did yes, it stalled his development for a bit.

I only said Van Bommel because i remember the cunt playing against us in 2006 for them and he was a quality defensive player. But Edmilson goes back further so why would Xavi play that role?

mauro=beast wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:

Again, your incompetence is typified by your assault on me. Most of these players were way past it at the time. Trezeguet wasn't even starting, Makalele, Vieira and Thuram were at an age where they were no longer able to perform consistently at the highest level and you're forgetting the most important part, Raymond Domenech. Never has such an idiotic manager been made to look so good thanks to one player. Re-watch the World Cup and you'll see what Zidane was managing despite having to play under a moron and a vastly deteriorating squad.

i was living in france at this time i know this stuff like simple maths. some little kid who assumes these players past their prime???? thuram and trezeguet wherre the best players in serie a in the season leading to world cup. vieira was also extremely good. makelele past his prime? was he not integral player to chelsea epl title that season

i cannot even say u base these things of football manager, because it is showing even less knowledge then that

also domenech was very popular coach at this time and france played good football in his first years of his reign. being out played by brasil and then italy in that tiome was not even bad.

really, you must learn this stuff first before u make a new comment on this thread

Your arguments lacks any sort of cognitive reasoning and dismisses plenty of information willy-nilly, not to mention that it blatantly disregards anything I've previously written. You frankly make the children in the EA forum seem intelligent. Hell of an achievement.

Chris wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Van Bommel only played for Barcelona for 1 season.

He did yes, it stalled his development for a bit.

I only said Van Bommel because i remember the cunt playing against us in 2006 for them and he was a quality defensive player. But Edmilson goes back further so why would Xavi play that role?

I don't think that would've been the same period, it was at the start of Xavi's career that he played deeper. Edmílson only spent a few years there too.

BladeGunner14 wrote:

mauro=beast wrote:

i was living in france at this time i know this stuff like simple maths. some little kid who assumes these players past their prime???? thuram and trezeguet wherre the best players in serie a in the season leading to world cup. vieira was also extremely good. makelele past his prime? was he not integral player to chelsea epl title that season

i cannot even say u base these things of football manager, because it is showing even less knowledge then that

also domenech was very popular coach at this time and france played good football in his first years of his reign. being out played by brasil and then italy in that tiome was not even bad.

really, you must learn this stuff first before u make a new comment on this thread

Your arguments lacks any sort of cognitive reasoning and dismisses plenty of information willy-nilly, not to mention that it blatantly disregards anything I've previously written. You frankly make the children in the EA forum seem intelligent. Hell of an achievement.

funny that u mention ea, i think u should move back there, u have been shown up as having lack of knowledge. my post clearly picks every part of your post apart and destroys each point. france average-incorrect, france players past their prime-incorrect, domenech horrible-incorrect

willy nilly reasoning, i really like that statement. trezeguet scored about 30 willy nilly goals leading up to that world cup, definitely past his prime

pity i dont have the beasting list anymore, u would be a nice addition

I'm off to bed, but Mauro seems to have this covered.

Beasting