Just as I said.Kaka11|LFC wrote:But we also lost our dictator in Alonso, thats what really killed us, people can brush it off as much as they want and say it didn't mean that much but Alonso was pivotal to our game. He dictated the game and was at the centre of everything. Because of him being able to dictate the game from deep Gerrard had the freedom to attack getting the best out of him which in turn brought the best out of Torres with their partnership. And Alonso could focus on his game because Mascherano had him and the defense covered. It was a team where everybody could rely on eachother to do their job which brought the best out of everyone.
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Where will Rafa go?
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°61
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Guest- Guest
- Post n°62
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Alonso was good, but he wasn't the difference between 2nd and 7th. We finished second because everyone was fantastic and our 'average' players played out of their skins.
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°63
Re: Where will Rafa go?
A lot of sides below you improved dramatically as well.Dan wrote:Alonso was good, but he wasn't the difference between 2nd and 7th. We finished second because everyone was fantastic and our 'average' players played out of their skins.
Tottenham didn't have a poor start like in previous seasons and Man City went on a spending spree.
Kaka11|LFC-
- Posts : 846
- Post n°64
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Him leaving still made a big difference though, everybody else was already playing at the best of their potential with Alonso, without him they had to play that much better to make up for it but it wasn't the same. It isn't the difference between 2nd and 7th but it was a big part. The team was never stable that year, players in and out of the squad with injuries and what not.
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°65
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Back then Liverpool had a superb midfield and it was one of the best in the league.Kaka11|LFC wrote:Him leaving still made a big difference though, everybody else was already playing at the best of their potential with Alonso, without him they had to play that much better to make up for it but it wasn't the same. It isn't the difference between 2nd and 7th but it was a big part. The team was never stable that year, players in and out of the squad with injuries and what not.
Things have changed a lot for you since then. Now instead of Alonso, you have Poulsen.
Cadbury-
- Posts : 23487
Age : 31
Location : Blackpool
Supports : Not Kenny.
- Post n°66
Re: Where will Rafa go?
The Inter fans hated him didn't they?
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°67
Re: Where will Rafa go?
I think that was because of how they did when he was manager.Cadbury wrote:The Inter fans hated him didn't they?
He took them from European Champions and treble winners to 7th in Serie A. I don't think I would have been singing his praises if I was an Inter fan.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°68
Re: Where will Rafa go?
cheesy wrote:A lot of sides below you improved dramatically as well.Dan wrote:Alonso was good, but he wasn't the difference between 2nd and 7th. We finished second because everyone was fantastic and our 'average' players played out of their skins.
Tottenham didn't have a poor start like in previous seasons and Man City went on a spending spree.
They did, but that doesn't have anything to do with the 08/09 season.
The two seasons previous to the season we finished second, we were nowhere near that points tally. We got close to it in 2005/06, but the squad had changed since then.
At the start of that season, nobody thought we would hit the height that we did.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°69
Re: Where will Rafa go?
cheesy wrote:I think that was because of how they did when he was manager.Cadbury wrote:The Inter fans hated him didn't they?
He took them from European Champions and treble winners to 7th in Serie A. I don't think I would have been singing his praises if I was an Inter fan.
That banner was showing support for Rafa.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°70
Re: Where will Rafa go?
At the end of the day. Transfer fees do not include agents fees or wages. Quit bitching.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
- Post n°71
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Mr Leiva wrote:When they bought the club, they promised the former owners and the fans that they had money available to spend on the new stadium. When in fact, before the World Recension they didn't have enough to pay for it. They couldn't even afford to buy the club with capital, but bought the club with loans. Loans they couldn't afford to pay back, and to take out an other loan to buy a stadium. Also they promised not to buy the club with debts. But, oh wait. They did.
Oh they promised! How old are you? Sometimes businessmen aren't entirely honest, big fucking deal. Despite having no money they still gave Benitez the funds for several ~£20m players, rather than spending the money on debts.
I highly doubt they would have sacked Hodgson. He hardly opposed them, and they didn't give a fuck about the club. Just as long as they fucked off and got there profit. And if we sold Torres, it would have went towards the interest payments that were due in October or the debt. Not reinvested in the squad. And thats if we weren't in the hands off administrators. And I'am reserving my judgment about the net spend this summer, and am going to re assure you it will be a massive summer financially.
Of course they didn't give a fuck about the club, why would you expect them to? Do you think NESV give a fuck about the club? No, it's just a bit of nice publicity. You say if you sold Torres it would have just gone towards interest payments, but why would that be? Their previous track record shows that they give all the money recouped from transfers to Benitez, with a bit more on top.
Rooney. Do you think it is good, when owners buy the club with around £250 Million loan and then struggle to pay off the interest of the loan, then use Player sales to attempt to pay them off? And then spending less money to make the squad better? Liverpool were hours away from administration. All Rafa's fault wasn't it.
They never used player sales to pay off debts, if they did your total net spend would have been negative.
And, Funny how they had the funds to pay the debt off on the day the club was sold, and never before eh?
We can't really judge a businessplan they never got the chance to implement.
Rafa was used as a scapegoat, and the media fucking love every moment off it. Funny how Rupert Murdoch's Sky Sports gave Mr Hicks an interview, and it was the most staged publicity stunt I have seen in years. With his Stadium plans hanging on the wall, his puppy eyes and his blaming off Rafa and that Martin Broughton was a Chelsea fan, so he was against the club and other shite. The media especially Murdoch media outlets defending the cunts at every stop.
Yes, Rafa did have some poor buys, but he was under a sell to buy policy. Every manager does. But he had some excellent ones. I still don't get how people work out that it was all Rafa's fault.
Oh what a surprise, there's a media conspiracy against Liverpool. Of course Hicks tries to portray himself in a positive light, what do you expect? THe conspiracy's imaginary, but if it were real, maybe you should stop this vicious campaign to hurt the profits of the Murdoch media.
By the way, I don't think Benitez was a poor manager, I think you overachieved in most of the seasons he was there, but his vilification of the owners was very unprofessional, and his job wasn't nearly as difficult as you make out.
Kaka11|LFC wrote:But we also lost our dictator in Alonso, thats what really killed us, people can brush it off as much as they want and say it didn't mean that much but Alonso was pivotal to our game. He dictated the game and was at the centre of everything. Because of him being able to dictate the game from deep Gerrard had the freedom to attack getting the best out of him which in turn brought the best out of Torres with their partnership. And Alonso could focus on his game because Mascherano had him and the defense covered. It was a team where everybody could rely on eachother to do their job which brought the best out of everyone.
Don't forget why you lost him, in 2008 Benitez tried to flog him to Juventus and replace him with Mr. Mediocre, Gareth Barry.
Kaka11|LFC wrote:How can you compare Liverpool to Man United you twat? You already had an established top class team, Benitez had to build from scratch meaning he had to spend to get quality, how thick can you get.
How can you compare Benitez's situation to Dalglish's, they worked under different owners you moron, Dalglish has been given money to spend by FSG, he doesn't have to sell players to get transfer money.
An established top class team, eh?
2003/04, the season before Benitez took over we didn't even win the Premier League, finishing 3rd.
2004/05, we finished third against, while Liverpool won the European Cup
2005/06, what happened, what was the points gap between Liverpool and United? 1 point
That doesn't look like a top class team up against a Liverpool who had to 'build from scratch', it looks like two teams at a similar level. In 2006 Ferguson's 'Net Spend', a term you people never shut up about, was £-4m and Benitez's was £9m, but because Ferguson made shrewder signings, and is a better manager than Benitez, we won the Premier League and finished over 20 points clear of you.
Dalglish has a net spend of £100,000 so far.
Last edited by ResurrectionRooney on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
- Post n°72
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Dan wrote:cheesy wrote:I think that was because of how they did when he was manager.Cadbury wrote:The Inter fans hated him didn't they?
He took them from European Champions and treble winners to 7th in Serie A. I don't think I would have been singing his praises if I was an Inter fan.
That banner was showing support for Rafa.
It was probably saying thank you for leaving.
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°73
Re: Where will Rafa go?
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Dan wrote:cheesy wrote:I think that was because of how they did when he was manager.Cadbury wrote:The Inter fans hated him didn't they?
He took them from European Champions and treble winners to 7th in Serie A. I don't think I would have been singing his praises if I was an Inter fan.
That banner was showing support for Rafa.
It was probably saying thank you for leaving.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°74
Re: Where will Rafa go?
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Dan wrote:cheesy wrote:I think that was because of how they did when he was manager.Cadbury wrote:The Inter fans hated him didn't they?
He took them from European Champions and treble winners to 7th in Serie A. I don't think I would have been singing his praises if I was an Inter fan.
That banner was showing support for Rafa.
It was probably saying thank you for leaving.
Good joke.
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°75
Re: Where will Rafa go?
When was that picture with the banner though?
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°77
Re: Where will Rafa go?
May have been the best decision he made as manager.Dan wrote:The game after he had gone.
Kaka11|LFC-
- Posts : 846
- Post n°79
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you didn't have an established squad of top class players.ResurrectionRooney wrote:
An established top class team, eh?
2003/04, the season before Benitez took over we didn't even win the Premier League, finishing 3rd.
2004/05, we finished third against, while Liverpool won the European Cup
2005/06, what happened, what was the points gap between Liverpool and United? 1 point
That doesn't look like a top class team up against a Liverpool who had to 'build from scratch', it looks like two teams at a similar level. In 2006 Ferguson's 'Net Spend', a term you people never shut up about, was £-4m and Benitez's was £9m, but because Ferguson made shrewder signings, and is a better manager than Benitez, we won the Premier League and finished over 20 points clear of you.
Dalglish has a net spend of £100,000 so far.
2004/2005 when Rafa took over you had the likes of Van Nistelrooy, Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Giggs, Roy Keane, Gary Neville. The last 4 are supposed United legends, Van Nistelrooy was a prolific striker, Ferdinand was already a great defender, Rooney and Ronaldo, two of the best young players at the time and were already good enough to play at the top level.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°80
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Dan wrote:Jord, don't even bother with RR. Hasn't got a clue.
Should go to Villa I think, he'd do a very good job there.
It makes my blood boil when people say it was all rafa fault.
Is it Rafa's fault, we where £300 million in debt, and days away from administration in October because G+H couldn't pay back the interest on the loan, never mind the loan it self.
G+H had a past history of leverage buyouts, and then fucking up the clubs. Tom Hicks has done it with his baseball team, and a Brazilian football teams.
Last edited by Mr Leiva on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Kuled-
- Posts : 55235
Age : 28
- Post n°81
Re: Where will Rafa go?
It was all rafa's fault.Mr Leiva wrote:Dan wrote:Jord, don't even bother with RR. Hasn't got a clue.
Should go to Villa I think, he'd do a very good job there.
It makes my blood boil when people say it was all rafa fault.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
- Post n°82
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Kaka11|LFC wrote:Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you didn't have an established squad of top class players.ResurrectionRooney wrote:
An established top class team, eh?
2003/04, the season before Benitez took over we didn't even win the Premier League, finishing 3rd.
2004/05, we finished third against, while Liverpool won the European Cup
2005/06, what happened, what was the points gap between Liverpool and United? 1 point
That doesn't look like a top class team up against a Liverpool who had to 'build from scratch', it looks like two teams at a similar level. In 2006 Ferguson's 'Net Spend', a term you people never shut up about, was £-4m and Benitez's was £9m, but because Ferguson made shrewder signings, and is a better manager than Benitez, we won the Premier League and finished over 20 points clear of you.
Dalglish has a net spend of £100,000 so far.
2004/2005 when Rafa took over you had the likes of Van Nistelrooy, Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Giggs, Roy Keane, Gary Neville. The last 4 are supposed United legends, Van Nistelrooy was a prolific striker, Ferdinand was already a great defender, Rooney and Ronaldo, two of the best young players at the time and were already good enough to play at the top level.
Can you imagine how many excuses would have been made if Steven Gerrard had walked out on a free transfer in the middle of a season like Roy Keane did? Or if a Liverpool legend like Jamie Carragher, had been out for an entire season, like Gary Neville was? What about if your best midfielder, Xabi Alonso, had missed half of a season with a debilitating eye injury like Paul Scholes did?
Besides, I'm not sure why it's being made out that Benitez had to build a team from scratch, there was already a team there. It contained players like Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, considered by most Liverpool fans to be top players. Benitez made a decision to tear down nearly everything Houllier had built at Liverpool and build it in his own image, it's not something that was forced upon him.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°83
Re: Where will Rafa go?
[quote="Kuled"]
Kuled making a superb contribution to a thread once again..
It was all rafa's fault.[/quoteMr Leiva wrote:Dan wrote:Jord, don't even bother with RR. Hasn't got a clue.
Should go to Villa I think, he'd do a very good job there.
It makes my blood boil when people say it was all rafa fault.
Kuled making a superb contribution to a thread once again..
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°84
Re: Where will Rafa go?
That never really guaranteed success for us though.Kaka11|LFC wrote:Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you didn't have an established squad of top class players.ResurrectionRooney wrote:
An established top class team, eh?
2003/04, the season before Benitez took over we didn't even win the Premier League, finishing 3rd.
2004/05, we finished third against, while Liverpool won the European Cup
2005/06, what happened, what was the points gap between Liverpool and United? 1 point
That doesn't look like a top class team up against a Liverpool who had to 'build from scratch', it looks like two teams at a similar level. In 2006 Ferguson's 'Net Spend', a term you people never shut up about, was £-4m and Benitez's was £9m, but because Ferguson made shrewder signings, and is a better manager than Benitez, we won the Premier League and finished over 20 points clear of you.
Dalglish has a net spend of £100,000 so far.
2004/2005 when Rafa took over you had the likes of Van Nistelrooy, Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Giggs, Roy Keane, Gary Neville. The last 4 are supposed United legends, Van Nistelrooy was a prolific striker, Ferdinand was already a great defender, Rooney and Ronaldo, two of the best young players at the time and were already good enough to play at the top level.
By this stage Neville and Keane were starting to show their age, while Scholes and Giggs weren't in the best of form.
While we had two terrific youngsters in Rooney and Ronaldo at the time they were both still progressing and it was Rooney's 1st season with us so he was settling into the team.
Van Nistelrooy was suffering from several injuries in that season and struggled to get a good run in the team without getting an injury.
Kaka11|LFC-
- Posts : 846
- Post n°85
Re: Where will Rafa go?
What does that top paragraph have any relevance to what I was saying? Regardless of those situations Man United still had a strong, established squad, full stop. You know Torres and Gerrard have been injury prone their entire partnership? They were never consistantly together? I can make excuses too but it doesn't change facts.ResurrectionRooney wrote:
Can you imagine how many excuses would have been made if Steven Gerrard had walked out on a free transfer in the middle of a season like Roy Keane did? Or if a Liverpool legend like Jamie Carragher, had been out for an entire season, like Gary Neville was? What about if your best midfielder, Xabi Alonso, had missed half of a season with a debilitating eye injury like Paul Scholes did?
Besides, I'm not sure why it's being made out that Benitez had to build a team from scratch, there was already a team there. It contained players like Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, considered by most Liverpool fans to be top players. Benitez made a decision to tear down nearly everything Houllier had built at Liverpool and build it in his own image, it's not something that was forced upon him.
So? That doesn't change the fact that he was had to and did build a squad from scratch to suit his style. The squad didn't contain players like Gerrard and Carragher, the only players from that squad that were arguably on the same level was Didi and Hyypia and they were getting on in age. The rest were nothing special.
Demba Ba-
- Formerly known as : cheesy
Posts : 4142
Location : Scotland
- Post n°86
Re: Where will Rafa go?
When Benitez came in didn't he make the decision to get rid of Michael Owen. You can't deny that he would have been another top player in the team.Kaka11|LFC wrote:What does that top paragraph have any relevance to what I was saying? Regardless of those situations Man United still had a strong, established squad, full stop. You know Torres and Gerrard have been injury prone their entire partnership? They were never consistantly together? I can make excuses too but it doesn't change facts.ResurrectionRooney wrote:
Can you imagine how many excuses would have been made if Steven Gerrard had walked out on a free transfer in the middle of a season like Roy Keane did? Or if a Liverpool legend like Jamie Carragher, had been out for an entire season, like Gary Neville was? What about if your best midfielder, Xabi Alonso, had missed half of a season with a debilitating eye injury like Paul Scholes did?
Besides, I'm not sure why it's being made out that Benitez had to build a team from scratch, there was already a team there. It contained players like Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, considered by most Liverpool fans to be top players. Benitez made a decision to tear down nearly everything Houllier had built at Liverpool and build it in his own image, it's not something that was forced upon him.
So? That doesn't change the fact that he was had to and did build a squad from scratch to suit his style. The squad didn't contain players like Gerrard and Carragher, the only players from that squad that were arguably on the same level was Didi and Hyypia and they were getting on in age. The rest were nothing special.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°87
Re: Where will Rafa go?
It's funny, at the time, we were told our squads were weak and nothing special. Now apparently they were very strong?
Jesus, make up your minds people.
Jesus, make up your minds people.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°88
Re: Where will Rafa go?
cheesy wrote:When Benitez came in didn't he make the decision to get rid of Michael Owen. You can't deny that he would have been another top player in the team.Kaka11|LFC wrote:What does that top paragraph have any relevance to what I was saying? Regardless of those situations Man United still had a strong, established squad, full stop. You know Torres and Gerrard have been injury prone their entire partnership? They were never consistantly together? I can make excuses too but it doesn't change facts.ResurrectionRooney wrote:
Can you imagine how many excuses would have been made if Steven Gerrard had walked out on a free transfer in the middle of a season like Roy Keane did? Or if a Liverpool legend like Jamie Carragher, had been out for an entire season, like Gary Neville was? What about if your best midfielder, Xabi Alonso, had missed half of a season with a debilitating eye injury like Paul Scholes did?
Besides, I'm not sure why it's being made out that Benitez had to build a team from scratch, there was already a team there. It contained players like Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, considered by most Liverpool fans to be top players. Benitez made a decision to tear down nearly everything Houllier had built at Liverpool and build it in his own image, it's not something that was forced upon him.
So? That doesn't change the fact that he was had to and did build a squad from scratch to suit his style. The squad didn't contain players like Gerrard and Carragher, the only players from that squad that were arguably on the same level was Didi and Hyypia and they were getting on in age. The rest were nothing special.
Michael Owen made the decision to get rid of Michael Owen.
Kaka11|LFC-
- Posts : 846
- Post n°89
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Benitez wanted to keep Owen, Owen wanted to go.
Jamie-
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- Post n°90
Re: Where will Rafa go?
Who the fuck is this Cheesy guy?
He is quite the cretin.
He is quite the cretin.