Can Kenny give Liverpool the 'Pep' Factor?

I'm gonna start of with something that might open up a whole other debate, but it's my opinion and although you might not agree with it, the point I'm making plays a key role in what I'm talking about overall. Even if you don't agree with it entirely, there should be one key aspect that you agree with me on. Hopefully anyway.

Basically, I think Pep Guardiola isn't as good as people make out. Yes, he's had tremendous success at Barcelona, and he deserves a lot of credit for that. But, I believe he wouldn't have achieved that same success at another top club anywhere in the world. Why? Simply because of who he is. He is a Barcelona legend, a hero to most of the current crop of players who grew up watching him. They have that respect for him, they will listen, learn and take on board everything he says. Obviously, he is a fantastic manager, Barcelona are tactically unqiue, no other team plays like them and no other team probably will again. But, I don't think he'd game the same from any other team.

Now, pretend that Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pique etc. were all Italian. Pretend they were all Milan boys, born and bred, playing for Inter, but Guardiola was still a Barcelona legend. Guardiola gets appointed as Inter boss, would he get the same from the players. Yes, they are all supremly talented, as they have shown with Spain - but would they have the same success at club level if they had no affiliation to the boss? It's part of the reason why I don't think he'd work as Liverpool manager, and I have my doubts if he would be as good anywhere other than Barca.


I expect the majority (if not all) to disagree with my opinion there, I'm not taking anything away from Guardiola, but I think he's been as good as he has because simply the aura he presents as Barcelona boss. But that is what brings me to my main point. Roy Hodgson is not working as Liverpool manager. The away form, even the home games this season have been poor - losing 7 games already in the league (we lost 11 in total last season) and if the second half of the season reflects the first, we'll be on course for 46 points. The lowest since the 1964-65 - when there were 2 points for a win.

So, what I am saying is. If we remove Hodgson, could Kenny Dalglish have the same effect than Guardiola had at Barcelona. Obviously, I'm not expecting Kenny to come in and win a treble/quardruple/however many trophies they won in Pep's first season, but I'm talking about the aura at the club. The personality of the team almost. This season, we've looked flat, like a team lacking ideas and almost certainly one with no Plan B. Could Kenny be the man to change that? Even in politics, this kind of thing is seen (correct me if I'm wrong here). John Smith stabalised and united the Labour Party before Tony Blair took them to greener fields. Could that be the same at Anfield? Could Kenny Dalglish be the 'Pep Factor' or the 'Smith Effect' that Liverpool need?

Kenny would command the same respect (if not more) that Pep does at Liverpool. He's not only the greatest ever player that has pulled on the Red shirt, but he's also won titles as manager of the club as well. Players will have no choice but to respect what he says. The young lads, the local lads and even the foreign players will admire his achievements in the game, will hang on every word he has to say.

So, my point is, could Kenny Dalglish act as out Pep Guardiola (albeit only a little smaller)? Could he be the man to unite the team, before someone else comes in to really push the team forward?



I expect a few 'tl;dr' posts from the unintelligent and quite frankly illiterate on the forum, but we need some proper debates/conversations about football instead of 'HAHAH, YOUR TEAM IZ WELL GAY'. Anyone who posts in such a manner will be revealed as a homosexual.


My thoughts anyway, but whatevs.

I've always had a bit of a feeling Guardiola has it perhaps just a little bit easy. Okay, since he's been there Barca have won the lot (some more than on one occassion) but his team is unbelievably good..

tl;dr


I joke.

Kenny will make Liverpool fans erect for the first few games, they'll win the first few, then go back to being shit, making Liverpool fans realise that the team is shit, whoever the manager is.

but the real question is.....does Kenny want that shit job???












:joke:

Danny B wrote:I've always had a bit of a feeling Guardiola has it perhaps just a little bit easy. Okay, since he's been there Barca have won the lot (some more than on one occassion) but his team is unbelievably good..

Thing is, I don't think many people would be able to get Barcelona to this level either. I think Guardiola is the perfect man for Barcelona, a genius appointment. He is the right man for Barcelona, without a doubt. I don't think anybody else could have been able to match the work he's done.

@forrest, that av is too fucked up lol

forestfcfan wrote:tl;dr


I joke.

Kenny will make Liverpool fans erect for the first few games, they'll win the first few, then go back to being shit, making Liverpool fans realise that the team is shit, whoever the manager is.

Calling clubs shit.


Presenting the first homosexual in this thread. Congratulations.

tl;dr


But no really, I don't think so. For one, Pep guided Barcelona's youth team for a while before taking over the senior side, so the kids (Thiago, Pepe, those other fuckers) are in love with him, and he is already has them eating out of his hand as he brings the next generation through, secondly... he has that same effect on the senior team, Xavi, Iniesta, Valdez, etc. were coming through Barclona B when Pep was still playing (ex. Pep left Barcelona in 2001, Xavi made his debut in 1998) there is no sort of connection like that with Liverpool, and speaking of connection, Liverpool aren't as English (or, Scottish) as Barcelona are Spanish, so I don't think that same aura applies. Also, Daglish has been out of the game for a while now, I have my doubts about him coming back to management and making a quick impact, it's likely that the game has passed him by is what I'm saying. Could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

And0TheGr8 wrote:@forrest, that av is too fucked up lol

Kunte Kinte off Roots

It could work. But obviously to take your squad anywhere near the heights of Barcelona you'll need a lot of new signings, would he command the same respect off them too?

Dan wrote:

Danny B wrote:I've always had a bit of a feeling Guardiola has it perhaps just a little bit easy. Okay, since he's been there Barca have won the lot (some more than on one occassion) but his team is unbelievably good..

Thing is, I don't think many people would be able to get Barcelona to this level either. I think Guardiola is the perfect man for Barcelona, a genius appointment. He is the right man for Barcelona, without a doubt. I don't think anybody else could have been able to match the work he's done.

You're probably right with that yeah, it was a fantastic appointment, they were getting a bit stale under Rikaard, and needed something different- Guardiola's given that. Messi is so much better than he was 2 or 3 years ago, Pique's come back and has been fantastic (sadly ) etc...

But could Kenny have the same effect (affect?) at Liverpool? I doubt it..

It's the signings that Liverpool make which destroys the club. Hodgson has brought in Cole, Poulsen, and Konchesky this summer, all have been terrible signings.

dena wrote:tl;dr


But no really, I don't think so. For one, Pep guided Barcelona's youth team for a while before taking over the senior side, so the kids (Thiago, Pepe, those other fuckers) are in love with him, and he is already has them eating out of his hand as he brings the next generation through, secondly... he has that same effect on the senior team, Xavi, Iniesta, Valdez, etc. were coming through Barclona B when Pep was still playing (ex. Pep left Barcelona in 2001, Xavi made his debut in 1998) there is no sort of connection like that with Liverpool, and speaking of connection, Liverpool aren't as English (or, Scottish) as Barcelona are Spanish, so I don't think that same aura applies. Also, Daglish has been out of the game for a while now, I have my doubts about him coming back to management and making a quick impact, it's likely that the game has passed him by is what I'm saying. Could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

True, but would you not expect players like Torres, Reina, Agger, Kuyt (foreign players who have embraced 'the Liverpool Way') to connect to Dalgish in that way?

Obviously, I'm not saying Kenny could do the same job here and Pep did at Barcelona, or have the quick imapct Pep did. I'm wondering if Kenny could come in and have the 'Pep effect' on the club and almost unite the team and put them in the position to be taken forward.


But I don't buy the 'he's been out of the game for a while now'. Yeah, Kenny has, but our coaches/scouts/physios etc. haven't. And I'd hope that they'd quickly pull him up if they thought he was doing somethign wrong.

JMB_94 wrote:It's the signings that Liverpool make which destroys the club. Hodgson has brought in Cole, Poulsen, and Konchesky this summer, all have been terrible signings.

It was the lack of investment that destroyed the club - it started under Rafa, and unfortunately Roy had to suffer it as well.

JMB_94 wrote:It's the signings that Liverpool make which destroys the club. Hodgson has brought in Cole, Poulsen, and Konchesky this summer, all have been terrible signings.

Poulsen is brilliant.

FA Cup Final. Forest v Liverpool.

0-0 after 90 Minutes.

Torres. 1-0 Liverpool. 104 Minutes.

McGugan. 1-1. 105 Minutes.

Penalties.

Poulsen steps up to take the vital penalty for Liverpool; misses and Forest win the cup.


He's only gone and skied it!

I win my first trophy on Career Mode

Don't see it happening tbh.

forestfcfan wrote:

JMB_94 wrote:It's the signings that Liverpool make which destroys the club. Hodgson has brought in Cole, Poulsen, and Konchesky this summer, all have been terrible signings.

Poulsen is brilliant.

FA Cup Final. Forest v Liverpool.

0-0 after 90 Minutes.

Torres. 1-0 Liverpool. 104 Minutes.

McGugan. 1-1. 105 Minutes.

Penalties.

Poulsen steps up to take the vital penalty for Liverpool; misses and Forest win the cup.


He's only gone and skied it!

I win my first trophy on Career Mode

Good read. But we need the players first mate. Still a possibility, anyone player at Liverpool with any knowledge and respect for Kenny will listen to what he has to say and give him performances. Or at least that is how it should work. With the current players we have we won't play tiki taka.

Dan wrote:

dena wrote:tl;dr


But no really, I don't think so. For one, Pep guided Barcelona's youth team for a while before taking over the senior side, so the kids (Thiago, Pepe, those other fuckers) are in love with him, and he is already has them eating out of his hand as he brings the next generation through, secondly... he has that same effect on the senior team, Xavi, Iniesta, Valdez, etc. were coming through Barclona B when Pep was still playing (ex. Pep left Barcelona in 2001, Xavi made his debut in 1998) there is no sort of connection like that with Liverpool, and speaking of connection, Liverpool aren't as English (or, Scottish) as Barcelona are Spanish, so I don't think that same aura applies. Also, Daglish has been out of the game for a while now, I have my doubts about him coming back to management and making a quick impact, it's likely that the game has passed him by is what I'm saying. Could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

True, but would you not expect players like Torres, Reina, Agger, Kuyt (foreign players who have embraced 'the Liverpool Way') to connect to Dalgish in that way?

Obviously, I'm not saying Kenny could do the same job here and Pep did at Barcelona, or have the quick imapct Pep did. I'm wondering if Kenny could come in and have the 'Pep effect' on the club and almost unite the team and put them in the position to be taken forward.


But I don't buy the 'he's been out of the game for a while now'. Yeah, Kenny has, but our coaches/scouts/physios etc. haven't. And I'd hope that they'd quickly pull him up if they thought he was doing somethign wrong.

Not really to be honest, maybe it's the skeptic in me, but I don't really see these foreign players, most of whom born in the 80s, connecting with someone who was such a force for Liverpool in the 80s, I just don't see it.

As for the backroom staff helping Kenny out, of course they will, but he still makes the final decisions, and one again -- being a skeptic, I'm not sure if he will catch up quickly enough. I think Pep was a real lightning in a bottle thing for Barcelona.

I see your point and i've never looked at it that way. (on pep) For me I have always known that pep is a good manager but not a great manager. He is still learning and i think last season really showed his weaknesses as manager but that is not the point of this thread.

The current team is a good team. (par the danish legend) but what it lacks is the togetherness of the better teams. We need a manager who will walk in and make the captain sit down and shut the fuck up. We need a manager who will demand their respect. We need a manager who will be able to make the team a family. All of the greatest teams in history have always had the will die for each other mentality. Can kenny do this is most likely a yes but i don't think he will be able to make the team play better. (in term of tactical play) We need someone who will walk in and make the team play football that will let us win. That togetherness will come after our team starts to win.

Also when pep came in he got rid of all the trouble makers and it made the players realize that if they have to respect pep because if they make him angry, he will kick them out. It left the players who wanted to play for the club and it got rid of the ones who didn't care. We need someone to do that before we become a mid table club.


it is very late so sorry for mistakes and sorry if none of it make sense

Jord wrote:Good read. But we need the players first mate. Still a possibility, anyone player at Liverpool with any knowledge and respect for Kenny will listen to what he has to say and give him performances. Or at least that is how it should work. With the current players we have we won't play tiki taka.

Nah, you mis-understand what I'm trying to say mate.

I'm not expecting us to be Barcelona, I'm wondering if Kenny could have the same effect on the team that Pep did. Not completely obviously. I think we need a man to come in and bring the squad together and bring us to a position where we can move forward. Pep did that - but because of his age, he was able to take them forward as well. I don't think there's anyone better than Kenny to get us to that position to be moved forward.

So kind of, sack Roy, appoint Kenny, then when he's stabalised us, bring in a young manager to take us forward.

I'm wondering if Kenny could act as our 'Pep' in that sense of getting us to that position.

Hmm

I think there is certainly a case that Pep is flattered by the resources available to him, but I don't think people (I know you did Dan) give him enough credit for his tactical approach, people seem to assume he just goes in and says "Xavi you pass to Messi and he scores, kay".

Also who's to say Pep would not get the same relationship with players at every club, he quite possibly is just a good man manager regardless of the Barca connection.

About Daglish, I share the he's been out of the
game too long. Yes his couches etc haven't but at the end of the day the manager is in charge of the team, he can't just go to team talk and click leave to assistant (FM reference geddit??)

In the short term though I think he could do a job and possibly get you into top 4, but Roy will probably stay too long and fuck up any chance























tl;dr

NZG wrote:I see your point and i've never looked at it that way. (on pep) For me I have always known that pep is a good manager but not a great manager. He is still learning and i think last season really showed his weaknesses as manager but that is not the point of this thread.

The current team is a good team. (par the danish legend) but what it lacks is the togetherness of the better teams. We need a manager who will walk in and make the captain sit down and shut the fuck up. We need a manager who will demand their respect. We need a manager who will be able to make the team a family. All of the greatest teams in history have always had the will die for each other mentality. Can kenny do this is most likely a yes but i don't think he will be able to make the team play better. (in term of tactical play) We need someone who will walk in and make the team play football that will let us win. That togetherness will come after our team starts to win.

Also when pep came in he got rid of all the trouble makers and it made the players realize that if they have to respect pep because if they make him angry, he will kick them out. It left the players who wanted to play for the club and it got rid of the ones who didn't care. We need someone to do that before we become a mid table club.


it is very late so sorry for mistakes and sorry if none of it make sense

Completely agree mate. I think Kenny would be a short-term option. I think he'd be able to do what you described Pep as doing in the bolded part. He'd be to one to unite the team, then leave it for someone to take the club onwards in a stronger position than if someone was to try it now.

Dan wrote:

Jord wrote:Good read. But we need the players first mate. Still a possibility, anyone player at Liverpool with any knowledge and respect for Kenny will listen to what he has to say and give him performances. Or at least that is how it should work. With the current players we have we won't play tiki taka.

Nah, you mis-understand what I'm trying to say mate.

I'm not expecting us to be Barcelona, I'm wondering if Kenny could have the same effect on the team that Pep did. Not completely obviously. I think we need a man to come in and bring the squad together and bring us to a position where we can move forward. Pep did that - but because of his age, he was able to take them forward as well. I don't think there's anyone better than Kenny to get us to that position to be moved forward.

So kind of, sack Roy, appoint Kenny, then when he's stabalised us, bring in a young manager to take us forward.

I'm wondering if Kenny could act as our 'Pep' in that sense of getting us to that position.

Fair enough. But if we bring in a young manager it won't be the 'pep factor' will it since he was a Barcelona lad and was a legend there. If we get a young manager with ideas he still won't have what Pep has with Barcelona.

I have always said that you don't need to be a good tactician to lead Barca to titles. Rijkaard was not a good manager, but he still won several titles with Barca. Barca can manage themselves. I doubt the manager tells Messi what to do. He just tells him to get on the field and do his thing.

But what happened in Rijkaard's final season is he lost control over the team and morale went down. To be successful at Barca, you need to be good at managing people. The fact that the players look up to Pep, is an added factor.

I'm not sure you can compare this with Liverpool though.

Jord wrote:

Dan wrote:

Jord wrote:Good read. But we need the players first mate. Still a possibility, anyone player at Liverpool with any knowledge and respect for Kenny will listen to what he has to say and give him performances. Or at least that is how it should work. With the current players we have we won't play tiki taka.

Nah, you mis-understand what I'm trying to say mate.

I'm not expecting us to be Barcelona, I'm wondering if Kenny could have the same effect on the team that Pep did. Not completely obviously. I think we need a man to come in and bring the squad together and bring us to a position where we can move forward. Pep did that - but because of his age, he was able to take them forward as well. I don't think there's anyone better than Kenny to get us to that position to be moved forward.

So kind of, sack Roy, appoint Kenny, then when he's stabalised us, bring in a young manager to take us forward.

I'm wondering if Kenny could act as our 'Pep' in that sense of getting us to that position.

Fair enough. But if we bring in a young manager it won't be the 'pep factor' will it since he was a Barcelona lad and was a legend there. If we get a young manager with ideas he still won't have Pepe has with Barcelona.

I'm only on about the 'Pep factor' with Kenny. Pep united Barcelona, got rid of the problem players and got them into the position to really become the best - then took them there.

With Kenny, I think he could do a similar job - 'the Pep Factor' - unite the team, remove the problems, strengthen us slightly and get us back on track to getting back to where we should be. Then, given his age, he's pass it onto a younger manager to bring his own ideas in place.

ahlycotc wrote:I have always said that you don't need to be a good tactician to lead Barca to titles. Rijkaard was not a good manager, but he still won several titles with Barca. Barca can manage themselves. I doubt the manager tells Messi what to do. He just tells him to get on the field and do his thing.

But what happened in Rijkaard's final season is he lost control over the team and morale went down. To be successful at Barca, you need to be good at managing people. The fact that the players look up to Pep, is an added factor.

I'm not sure you can compare this with Liverpool though.

Because what Pep is to Barcelona, Kenny is to Liverpool (and more). Like you said, the players look up to Pep, he manages them perfectly and is the perfect man for the job. Kenny would have a similar (bout obviously smaller affect because of the players we have compared to Barca). They players will look up to him and respect him.

Dan wrote:

Jord wrote:

Dan wrote:

Jord wrote:Good read. But we need the players first mate. Still a possibility, anyone player at Liverpool with any knowledge and respect for Kenny will listen to what he has to say and give him performances. Or at least that is how it should work. With the current players we have we won't play tiki taka.

Nah, you mis-understand what I'm trying to say mate.

I'm not expecting us to be Barcelona, I'm wondering if Kenny could have the same effect on the team that Pep did. Not completely obviously. I think we need a man to come in and bring the squad together and bring us to a position where we can move forward. Pep did that - but because of his age, he was able to take them forward as well. I don't think there's anyone better than Kenny to get us to that position to be moved forward.

So kind of, sack Roy, appoint Kenny, then when he's stabalised us, bring in a young manager to take us forward.

I'm wondering if Kenny could act as our 'Pep' in that sense of getting us to that position.

Fair enough. But if we bring in a young manager it won't be the 'pep factor' will it since he was a Barcelona lad and was a legend there. If we get a young manager with ideas he still won't have Pepe has with Barcelona.

I'm only on about the 'Pep factor' with Kenny. Pep united Barcelona, got rid of the problem players and got them into the position to really become the best - then took them there.

With Kenny, I think he could do a similar job - 'the Pep Factor' - unite the team, remove the problems, strengthen us slightly and get us back on track to getting back to where we should be. Then, given his age, he's pass it onto a younger manager to bring his own ideas in place.

I get it and It's a fantastic idea to be fair. But we're stuck with Roy for another 3 years now.

ahlycotc wrote:I have always said that you don't need to be a good tactician to lead Barca to titles. Rijkaard was not a good manager, but he still won several titles with Barca. Barca can manage themselves. I doubt the manager tells Messi what to do. He just tells him to get on the field and do his thing.

But what happened in Rijkaard's final season is he lost control over the team and morale went down. To be successful at Barca, you need to be good at managing people. The fact that the players look up to Pep, is an added factor.

I'm not sure you can compare this with Liverpool though.

I think what dan is trying to say is that he wants someone to come in and the control the team because right now Roy has no say. The fans hate him, the players obviously dislike him and other managers laugh at him. He lacks control over the team.

Also barca did need a good tactician but lets talk about that another time.

I thought it was a bit callous the way the board basically told Kenny to fuck off when he applied for the job

Also Dan, would you trust Daglish say if Liverpool got to a EL semi final, would you trust him to get the team set up tactically?