Premier League match discussion thread | 2014/15

Keyser Söze wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:He must be another one of those players to get worse for no apparent reason, much like the whole Arsenal team and the rest of the Premier League.

I'd say playing with inferior players and under an inferior manager would be one of the reasons.

Inferior to Benitez?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:

I'd say playing with inferior players and under an inferior manager would be one of the reasons.

Inferior to Benitez?

You've picked the best manager Mata has played under and questioned him?

Keyser Söze wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Inferior to Benitez?

You've picked the best manager Mata has played under and questioned him?

You are a fucking loon. Mata has played under Jose Mourinho, Louis Van Gaal and Vicente Del Bosque and you think Rafael Benitez is the best manager he's played under? I mean, seriously, are you on crack?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:

You've picked the best manager Mata has played under and questioned him?

You are a fucking loon.  Mata has played under Jose Mourinho, Louis Van Gaal and Vicente Del Bosque and you think Rafael Benitez is the best manager he's played under?  I mean, seriously, are you on crack?

I take it you use "played" in the most loose sense when you talk about his time under Mourinho. Other than that Benitez is vastly superior to the other two you mentioned

Keyser Söze wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

You are a fucking loon.  Mata has played under Jose Mourinho, Louis Van Gaal and Vicente Del Bosque and you think Rafael Benitez is the best manager he's played under?  I mean, seriously, are you on crack?

I take it you use "played" in the most loose sense when you talk about his time under Mourinho. Other than that Benitez is vastly superior to the other two you mentioned

Such a waste of a good troll, you went too outrageous too quickly. Its all about the slow build up.

Yeah, that was pretty damn bad.

Yeah I'm trolling, there is no way a manager that's won all this could be considered good:

Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Chelsea
UEFA Europa League (1): 2012–13
Napoli
Coppa Italia (1): 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2014
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (6): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009, April 2013

SRST couldn't detect a troll if it stabbed him trough Mithril.

Yea Del Bosque's only won 2 European Championships, 5 La Liga's, 2 Champions League and a World Cup. Benitez has been living off a fluky Champions League win with Liverpool his whole career.

Keyser Söze wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

You are a fucking loon.  Mata has played under Jose Mourinho, Louis Van Gaal and Vicente Del Bosque and you think Rafael Benitez is the best manager he's played under?  I mean, seriously, are you on crack?

I take it you use "played" in the most loose sense when you talk about his time under Mourinho. Other than that Benitez is vastly superior to the other two you mentioned

His performances under Mourinho don't say very much for your theory about superior managers making him better.

Keyser Söze wrote:Yeah I'm trolling, there is no way a manager that's won all this could be considered good:

Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Chelsea
UEFA Europa League (1): 2012–13
Napoli
Coppa Italia (1): 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2014
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (6): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009, April 2013

The two La Liga wins when Barcelona and Real Madrid were in transition were impressive but the rest are flukes. If spawny cup wins are your main criteria for selecting who the best manager is then Di Matteo has Benitez beat. Rafa is probably the fifth or sixth best manager Mata has played under behind AVB, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Del Bosque, maybe Di Matteo, and of course the man who finished above him with his tiny local rivals and got him fired.

Sean wrote:Yea Del Bosque's only won 2 European Championships, 5 La Liga's, 2 Champions League and a World Cup. Benitez has been living off a fluky Champions League win with Liverpool his whole career.

The bold stuff above isn't true, but the rest is still enough to put him comfortably ahead of that obese conspiracy theorist.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Sean wrote:Yea Del Bosque's only won 2 European Championships, 5 La Liga's, 2 Champions League and a World Cup. Benitez has been living off a fluky Champions League win with Liverpool his whole career.

The bold stuff above isn't true, but the rest is still enough to put him comfortably ahead of that obese conspiracy theorist.

My mistake, 1 European Championship and 2 La Liga's. Also worth noting the shambles that Madrid became when he left.

Don't kid yourself, that Spain team practically played itself. If anything they had at least one more win in them and Del Bosque fucked that up majestically. You're lying if you think don't Benitez could have done just as good a job. Luis Aragones is universally credited as the one who created that Spain team, every other manager is irrelevant.

Benitez, bar Inter Milan (which has very clearly been proven with a doubt to have been a club on massive decline), has never ever managed the best team in any of the leagues he's coached in (unlike van Gaal and Del Bosque) yet has achieved success.

Sean wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

The bold stuff above isn't true, but the rest is still enough to put him comfortably ahead of that obese conspiracy theorist.

My mistake, 1 European Championship and 2 La Liga's. Also worth noting the shambles that Madrid became when he left.

Hardly worth noting. Figo, Zidane and Ronaldo all just declined at the same time and Makelele left.

Sean wrote:Benitez has been living off a fluky Champions League win with Liverpool his whole career.

Are you seriously still seething about the times your beloved Mourinho got shrekt by Rafa in 2005 and 2007?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:

I take it you use "played" in the most loose sense when you talk about his time under Mourinho. Other than that Benitez is vastly superior to the other two you mentioned

His performances under Mourinho don't say very much for your theory about superior managers making him better.

Keyser Söze wrote:Yeah I'm trolling, there is no way a manager that's won all this could be considered good:

Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Chelsea
UEFA Europa League (1): 2012–13
Napoli
Coppa Italia (1): 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2014
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (6): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009, April 2013

The two La Liga wins when Barcelona and Real Madrid were in transition were impressive but the rest are flukes.  If spawny cup wins are your main criteria for selecting who the best manager is then Di Matteo has Benitez beat.  Rafa is probably the fifth or sixth best manager Mata has played under behind AVB, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Del Bosque, maybe Di Matteo, and of course the man who finished above him with his tiny local rivals and got him fired.

How come despite massively outspending Rafa, van Gaal hasn't managed a "spawny" cup win this season? How come despite massively outspending Rafa and despite Benitez managing during the absolute undisputed pinnacle of English football, van Gaal has a worse win %?

Didn't van Gaal get fired after losing the title by 5 points to Deportivo de La Coruña

EDIT: And on the Mata point, I don't see how Mata's performances can be blamed when Mourinho instantly froze him out based on a personal vendetta. Regardless of how good the manager is, if he doesn't play you and treats you like shit you aren't going to be very effective.

Keyser Söze wrote:Don't kid yourself, that Spain team practically played itself. If anything they had at least one more win in them and Del Bosque fucked that up majestically. You're lying if you think don't Benitez could have done just as good a job. Luis Aragones is universally credited as the one who created that Spain team, every other manager is irrelevant.

Benitez, bar Inter Milan (which has very clearly been proven with a doubt to have been a club on massive decline), has never ever managed the best team in any of the leagues he's coached in (unlike van Gaal and Del Bosque) yet has achieved success.    

Don't you think there might be a reason for that?

Also that argument about Spain is so retarded, people said the same about Pep's Barca but they never looked anywhere near as imposing since he left.

Sean wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:Don't kid yourself, that Spain team practically played itself. If anything they had at least one more win in them and Del Bosque fucked that up majestically. You're lying if you think don't Benitez could have done just as good a job. Luis Aragones is universally credited as the one who created that Spain team, every other manager is irrelevant.

Benitez, bar Inter Milan (which has very clearly been proven with a doubt to have been a club on massive decline), has never ever managed the best team in any of the leagues he's coached in (unlike van Gaal and Del Bosque) yet has achieved success.    

Don't you think there might be a reason for that?

Also that argument about Spain is so retarded, people said the same about Pep's Barca but they never looked anywhere near as imposing since he left.

Yes, the reason was ageing players and an owner that refused to invest. I think that's been proven by how much of a shambles Inter have become. If anything it's been proven that Benitez overachieved.

How are you going to compare a club side that plays every 3-4 days with a total of maybe 60-70 games a season to an international team that will play a respectable opponent maybe 2-3 times every 2 years Just stop.

I'm extremely confused.

And slightly aroused.

Keyser Söze wrote:

Sean wrote:

Don't you think there might be a reason for that?

Also that argument about Spain is so retarded, people said the same about Pep's Barca but they never looked anywhere near as imposing since he left.

Yes, the reason was ageing players and an owner that refused to invest. I think that's been proven by how much of a shambles Inter have become. If anything it's been proven that Benitez overachieved.

How are you going to compare a club side that plays every 3-4 days with a total of maybe 60-70 games a season to an international team that will play a respectable opponent maybe 2-3 times every 2 years  Just stop.    

No I mean there is a reason why Benitez has never been offered any of the top jobs around, except when there is a complete dearth of options i.e. Chelsea. I mean Napoli are hardly doing great this season.

What on Earth does how regularly a team play have to do with what we're talking about? Its not like Im talking about Del Bosque's record in the qualifiers, the man won 2 international competitions for God sake. The point was that its very easy to look at a great side and say that they could run themselves so I pointed out an instant where that was claimed and then proven wrong.

Sean wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:

Yes, the reason was ageing players and an owner that refused to invest. I think that's been proven by how much of a shambles Inter have become. If anything it's been proven that Benitez overachieved.

How are you going to compare a club side that plays every 3-4 days with a total of maybe 60-70 games a season to an international team that will play a respectable opponent maybe 2-3 times every 2 years  Just stop.    

No I mean there is a reason why Benitez has never been offered any of the top jobs around, except when there is a complete dearth of options i.e. Chelsea. I mean Napoli are hardly doing great this season.

What on Earth does how regularly a team play have to do with what we're talking about? Its not like Im talking about Del Bosque's record in the qualifiers, the man won 2 international competitions for God sake. The point was that its very easy to look at a great side and say that they could run themselves so I pointed out an instant where that was claimed and then proven wrong.

It's true, though. Anyone could have led Spain to those wins. Look at their side at the time, ffs.

Bit like how Barcelona are still doing pretty well since Pep left. On course to win the League this year, under someone who's pretty much a nobody in the managerial world.

Sean go push more ice creams off trains faggot

Scott_LFC wrote:

Sean wrote:

No I mean there is a reason why Benitez has never been offered any of the top jobs around, except when there is a complete dearth of options i.e. Chelsea. I mean Napoli are hardly doing great this season.

What on Earth does how regularly a team play have to do with what we're talking about? Its not like Im talking about Del Bosque's record in the qualifiers, the man won 2 international competitions for God sake. The point was that its very easy to look at a great side and say that they could run themselves so I pointed out an instant where that was claimed and then proven wrong.

It's true, though. Anyone could have led Spain to those wins. Look at their side at the time, ffs.

Bit like how Barcelona are still doing pretty well since Pep left. On course to win the League this year, under someone who's pretty much a nobody in the managerial world.

Yea like how Martino did so well with basically the same squad last season?

Obviously Barcelona are always going to do all right because they're one of the biggest clubs in the world but the manner and the style Pep had them playing in was a step above anything in recent memory. Its the same with Spain and Del Bosque. Yes Del Bosque had great foundations to do well with, but to suggest Benitez would do the same job is just laughable.

David Moyes took over a team that had won 5 of the last 7 league titles, the most recent in dominating fashion, and managed to completely fuck it up. It's not like managers don't make a difference.

Keyser Söze wrote:

How come despite massively outspending Rafa, van Gaal hasn't managed a "spawny" cup win this season? How come despite massively outspending Rafa and despite Benitez managing during the absolute undisputed pinnacle of English football, van Gaal has a worse win %?

Didn't van Gaal get fired after losing the title by 5 points to Deportivo de La Coruña

EDIT: And on the Mata point, I don't see how Mata's performances can be blamed when Mourinho instantly froze him out based on a personal vendetta. Regardless of how good the manager is, if he doesn't play you and treats you like shit you aren't going to be very effective.

Luck wasn't with him and we weren't in Europe. If Houllier had left Liverpool in seventh Benitez would have done nothing in his first season either.

Van Gaal is rebuilding a team, we are going to finish above where Benitez did in his first season.

Keyser Söze wrote:

Sean wrote:

Don't you think there might be a reason for that?

Also that argument about Spain is so retarded, people said the same about Pep's Barca but they never looked anywhere near as imposing since he left.

Yes, the reason was ageing players and an owner that refused to invest. I think that's been proven by how much of a shambles Inter have become. If anything it's been proven that Benitez overachieved.

How are you going to compare a club side that plays every 3-4 days with a total of maybe 60-70 games a season to an international team that will play a respectable opponent maybe 2-3 times every 2 years  Just stop.    

Benitez overachieved at Inter, God almighty.

That's different. Fergie left Moyes with shit. Fergie got out at exactly the right time.

Sean wrote:

Scott_LFC wrote:

It's true, though. Anyone could have led Spain to those wins. Look at their side at the time, ffs.

Bit like how Barcelona are still doing pretty well since Pep left. On course to win the League this year, under someone who's pretty much a nobody in the managerial world.

Yea like how Martino did so well with basically the same squad last season?

Obviously Barcelona are always going to do all right because they're one of the biggest clubs in the world but the manner and the style Pep had them playing in was a step above anything in recent memory. Its the same with Spain and Del Bosque. Yes Del Bosque had great foundations to do well with, but to suggest Benitez would do the same job is just laughable.

What?

They finished 2nd, only 2 points behind the Champions, who had a freakishly good season. They also had the highest G/D and Messi was injured for large periods.

Scott_LFC wrote:

Sean wrote:

Yea like how Martino did so well with basically the same squad last season?

Obviously Barcelona are always going to do all right because they're one of the biggest clubs in the world but the manner and the style Pep had them playing in was a step above anything in recent memory. Its the same with Spain and Del Bosque. Yes Del Bosque had great foundations to do well with, but to suggest Benitez would do the same job is just laughable.

What?

They finished 2nd, only 2 points behind the Champions, who had a freakishly good season. They also had the highest G/D and Messi was injured for large periods.

Barcelona had plenty of opportunities to win the league ahead of Atletico but blew it. I mean I cant even believe have to argue with you that no matter the team, who the manager is makes a difference.

Sean wrote:

Scott_LFC wrote:

What?

They finished 2nd, only 2 points behind the Champions, who had a freakishly good season. They also had the highest G/D and Messi was injured for large periods.

Barcelona had plenty of opportunities to win the league ahead of Atletico but blew it. I mean I cant even believe have to argue with you that no matter the team, who the manager is makes a difference.

They still had a stellar season by anyone's standards Point is, their last 2 Managers are nobodies, really. And Barca were still brilliant.

Pep was a managerial nobody, even more so than those 2. Also a 'nobody' doesnt get to manage Roma. You can even see how much Barcelona have improved this season, they were all over the place a few months ago but now Enrique has found a shape and gameplan that suits them perfect and they've completed a 4 point swing against Madrid.

Sean wrote:Pep was a managerial nobody, even more so than those 2. Also a 'nobody' doesnt get to manage Roma. You can even see how much Barcelona have improved this season, they were all over the place a few months ago but now Enrique has found a shape and gameplan that suits them perfect and they've completed a 4 point swing against Madrid.

Fuck off