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Grenade
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    Gaza conflict

    ResurrectionRooney
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:37 am

    FCB wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:

    Had Hamas stopped rocket attacks before the current conflict began?

    The current conflict started when Israel invaded and arrested hundreds of Palestinians and killed several of them soon after their three teens were found kidnaped/dead.

    Who killed the teenagers?
    Keyser Söze
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    Post by Keyser Söze Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:06 am

    God. We as humans just facilitate it.
    ResurrectionRooney
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:14 am

    Bit of a side issue, but why are Muslims even upset by their civilians getting killed? If God is watching over everything they'll be going to heaven and really they should be thanking the Israelis.
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    Post by FCB Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:22 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    FCB wrote:

    The current conflict started when Israel invaded and arrested hundreds of Palestinians and killed several of them soon after their three teens were found kidnaped/dead.

    Who killed the teenagers?

    Nobody is really sure. Israel claims it's Hamas but there is no clear evidence. Which brings me back to my original point. Do you believe someone should be guilty before being proven innocent?
    ResurrectionRooney
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:44 am

    FCB wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:

    Who killed the teenagers?

    Nobody is really sure. Israel claims it's Hamas but there is no clear evidence. Which brings me back to my original point. Do you believe someone should be guilty before being proven innocent?

    But everyone's pretty sure it was Palestinians, yeah?

    Generally I accept in innocent until guilty when it comes to matters of criminal prosecution, but when you're in a state of war it seems rather obvious to me that it's impossible to uphold those standards. In times of war if one party to a war adheres to those standards and the other side does not then the people who adhere will suffer excessive losses.

    I heard there were some revenge killings on Palestinian kids by Israelis, and that the Israelis arrested and charged the perpetrators. I haven't been able to find anything about the Palestinians' investigation into the killing of the Israeli teenagers though. Do you have any information on that?
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    Post by FCB Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:52 pm

    Yes. President Abbas and his government have been doing investigations and were also trying to find the kidnapped teens.
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:28 pm

    Any source for that?
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    Post by FCB Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:55 am

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/world/middleeast/palestinian-leader-condemns-kidnapping-of-israeli-teenagers.html?_r=0

    http://www.haaretz.com/.premium-1.598993

    I don't think Hamas would issue the kidnapping and killing of the teens. I believe it's a rogue group that committed the crime. Hamas would have admitted if they were the ones who committed the crime (terrorist groups are happy to boast about such things) and in fact, a few other terrorist groups have claimed responsibility for the attack.

    As the second article mentions, Hamas has no interest in committing the crime at such a time when it's working on a reconciliation deal with Fatah to form the new Palestinian government. In fact, the only party that gains from this crime is Israel, who have expressed their total rejection of any reconciliation agreement between Hamas and Fatah. I'm not going to stretch and say this was an inside job by Israel, but the timing of the incident raises doubts about Hamas committing it. Even if Hamas was behind the kidnapping, one would imagine they would use the teens as part of a hostage exchange deal like with Gilad Shalit. Killing them would serve no purpose.
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:16 am

    Empty words. Have they caught the killers?
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    Post by Moose Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:55 am

    I don't think so
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    Post by FCB Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:06 pm

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:Empty words.  Have they caught the killers?
    No. What does that prove?
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:19 pm

    FCB wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:Empty words.  Have they caught the killers?
    No. What does that prove?

    It doesn't prove anything, but talk is cheap isn't it? When Israeli civilians killed Palestinians in disgusting revenge attacks Israel immediately caught them and imprisoned them to await trial. Several weeks after the Israelis being murdered, nothing but an empty statement. You draw your own conclusions from that.
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    Post by FCB Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:28 am

    Israel has better intelligence and the people who killed the Israeli teens are the type to last longer on the loose than some random Israeli citizen.
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:19 am

    Sounds like Israel puts a much higher priority on finding murderers.
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    Post by FCB Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:49 am

    Because they have better resources. Which is funny, because they have precise technology yet they seem to accidently kill so many civilians.
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:20 am

    FCB wrote:Because they have better resources. Which is funny, because they have precise technology yet they seem to accidently kill so many civilians.

    Still as disingenuous as ever I see. You know as well as I do that Hamas deliberately fires it's rockets from places where there will be heavy casualties if Israel responds, particularly especially of kids, the disabled and wherever possible disabled kids. They even used a fucking UN hospital as a weapons base.

    Israel is left with a choice, let Hamas keep firing rockets at them with no response, or level a hospital or orphanage. They would be traitors to their own people if they opted for the former. This is a situation deliberately engineered by Hamas.
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    Post by FCB Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:08 pm

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

    Oh look. Just as I thought.
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    Post by FCB Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:52 am

    http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:04 am

    1) None of the law mentioned is really relevant to whether it's self defence or not. Terrorists are attacking them, they're responding, that's self defence.

    2) They keep voting for terrorists, they need to be kept an eye on. Imagine if they were allowed to do whatever they wanted.

    3) Sounds like Hamas should stop firing rockets, take away Israel's main excuse

    4) Israel's attacks are to deter other attacks and cripple Hamas' ability to launch them. Hamas' attacks are to create terror. Good guys and bad guys.

    5) Hardly a debunking when it cites two examples of them using UN schools to store weapons. Hamas should probably stop using terrorism and giving Israel an excuse.
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    Post by Theo Filippo Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:37 pm

    http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/07/27/howard-stern-delivers-epic-defense-israel-if-youre-anti-israel-then-youre-anti-america
    SBSP
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    Post by SBSP Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:03 pm

    Theo Filippo wrote:http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/07/27/howard-stern-delivers-epic-defense-israel-if-youre-anti-israel-then-youre-anti-america
    rofl
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:04 pm

    Very true. You side with Palestine and you side with Osama Bin Laden, Adolf Hitler and the IRA, you side with the terrorists, murderers and anti-Semites. I'll happy right here on my side with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bill Maher and the world's greatest democracy.
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    Post by SBSP Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:32 pm

    Arnold carries zero credibility as a politician, Bill Maher is a fuckhead who I could not care less about, and there is no God damn way you're going to make me believe you genuinely side with Fox News on anything. rofl
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:35 pm

    SBSP wrote:Arnold carries zero credibility as a politician, Bill Maher is a fuckhead who I could not care less about, and there is no God damn way you're going to make me believe you genuinely side with Fox News on anything. rofl

    I'd rather side with Schwarzenegger and Maher than Hitler and Bin Laden like you do. I do think Fox News has horribly wrong points of view on an awful lot of issues, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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    Post by SBSP Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:41 pm

    I don't side with any of those cunts, and I'm not sure why you assume I have to. I really don't believe you think it's that black and white.
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    Post by ResurrectionRooney Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:25 pm

    Hitler wanted to wipe out the Jews, Hamas, the elected government in Palestine, want to wipe out the Jews. Bin Laden was a direct supporter of Palestine and opponent of Israel. Whether you like it or not, that's the side of this debate you're on.
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    Post by Keyser Söze Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:56 am

    Bill Maher got sacked from ABC for his support of 9/11.
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    Post by Glen Miller Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:57 am

    I don't like William Maher.
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    Post by Keyser Söze Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:02 am

    I don't like him either. I also don't like that guy on HBO with the Birmingham accent or that guy that Colbert use to work for. I think Colbert is alright and he seems like a nice guy outside of his character too.
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    Post by Glen Miller Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:07 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:I don't like him either. I also don't like that guy on HBO with the Birmingham accent or that guy that Colbert use to work for. I think Colbert is alright and he seems like a nice guy outside of his character too.
    Colbert is pretty funny,  John Oliver is just a tryhard who rips off of the Colbert/Stewart style and thinks that an exaggerated British accent will take it to the next level.  I really hate the fact that it seems like he is desperate for you to find him funny.

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