Abortion: right or wrong?

I have lately been discussing the topic of abortion with a friend and we debated as to whether we each believed it to be morally acceptable, after an acquaintance of ours drunkenly screamed that her boyfriend forced her to 'murder her son' at a party we attended recently. My friend argued it should be allowed in all cases whereas I disagreed and believe that only in 'selective' circumstances should it be considered appropriate.

For those of you who are unaware of what is meant by 'selective abortion', it is when a foetus is tested for any genetic disorder and then aborted when it is found to have one. Currently, 93% of foetuses found to be carrying Downs Syndrome are aborted in the UK.

Please feel free to share your views.

So by selective abortion you mean genetic disorder o is that open to other things like if the girl was raped.

Depends on the situation.

Mr. Wiggles wrote:So by selective abortion you mean genetic disorder o is that open to other things like if the girl was raped.

Selective abortion in this case is only referring to genetic disorders

I hate this conversation. Simply because it always comes down to the fact that some people think the fetus is 'alive' and others do not. It's a load of bullshit. Kill the god damn thing, who gives a shite? It certainly doesn't because it's not even born yet. We kill plants and animals every single day but when it comes down to abortion people start crying. Grow a pair of fucking bollocks.

King Carlos wrote:Depends on the situation.

Please elaborate

I don't like the idea of it, but I guess in some circumstances it's the best option.

End of the day my opinion doesn't really matter, so I don't need to come to a decisive conclusion. I'll happily sit on the fence for this.

Jamie14 wrote:

King Carlos wrote:Depends on the situation.

Please elaborate

Like if the girl is raped.

If a woman is raped. She should abort the child.

If a young woman (under 16) gets pregnant, she should abort the child - not just the fact that she is underage, she would not be able to look after it, and the 'father' would probably not stick around.

Adz wrote:

Jamie14 wrote:

Please elaborate

Like if the girl is raped.

King Carlos wrote:If a woman is raped. She should abort the child.

If a young woman (under 16) gets pregnant, she should abort the child - not just the fact that she is underage, she would not be able to look after it, and the 'father' would probably not stick around.

Interesting points - no other circumstances in which you believe abortion is acceptable then?

I don't know really, but here is a scenario where if a woman cheats on her husband and gets pregnant while he is away (Serving for the army, on trucking hauls etc) then should she be allowed an abortion?

Adz wrote:I don't know really, but here is a scenario where if a woman cheats on her husband and gets pregnant while he is away (Serving for the army, on trucking hauls etc) then should she be allowed an abortion?

Should she be allowed to hide from her husband that she's been cheating on him?

I believe it should be allowed in certain circumstances (or at least morally acceptable in certain circumstances). These circumstances include...

Rape
Severe disorders
Threat to woman's life

Muslims also say that it's acceptable before four months of gestation. But I think there should be a good reason to do it within those 4 months.

It's much better to have the baby and give it up to adoption than kill it.

I can understand people saying that it's just a normal medical procedure, so people should be allowed to do it whenever they like, and I can understand people saying that it's murder. What absolutely mystifies me is the people who go in the middle - ie. saying that it's OK if there's a rape, or there is some retardation. Retardation is no excuse for killing someone, and neither is the fact that they were produced by a rape. If it's OK in those circumstances, why is it unacceptable in cases where someone simply doesn't want a child?

If someone wants an adoption it's because becoming pregnant was a mistake. No one purposefully becomes pregnant and aborts.

I don't see it as particularly any worse than flushing sperm down the toilet (in terms of morals). I don't think the reasoning really matters...unless it's people who are using it as a form of contraception...(which is probably quite rare but I bet it happens ). in that case it's just a waste of the taxpayers money.

End of the day I would take the wishes and well being of the mother and father first. I agree with Ahly that it's probably better to give birth and give up for adoption but....but in these times it's not like we're in need of a population boost Also 9 months is a long time....it financially and emotionally effects the woman, husband/boyfriend/father and any family.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:I can understand people saying that it's just a normal medical procedure, so people should be allowed to do it whenever they like, and I can understand people saying that it's murder. What absolutely mystifies me is the people who go in the middle - ie. saying that it's OK if there's a rape, or there is some retardation. Retardation is no excuse for killing someone, and neither is the fact that they were produced by a rape. If it's OK in those circumstances, why is it unacceptable in cases where someone simply doesn't want a child?

Unlike the rape victim, the person had a choice to have a child.

ahlycotc wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:I can understand people saying that it's just a normal medical procedure, so people should be allowed to do it whenever they like, and I can understand people saying that it's murder. What absolutely mystifies me is the people who go in the middle - ie. saying that it's OK if there's a rape, or there is some retardation. Retardation is no excuse for killing someone, and neither is the fact that they were produced by a rape. If it's OK in those circumstances, why is it unacceptable in cases where someone simply doesn't want a child?

Unlike the rape victim, the person had a choice to have a child.

Meh, sex is a common and usually casual thing these days.

Can understand that you'd think it shouldn't be....but that's not the case and accidents happen. You could do everything in your power to make sex safe and still end of pregnant. No point is ruining someone's life because of a mistake.

Lux wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

Unlike the rape victim, the person had a choice to have a child.

Meh, sex is a common and usually casual thing these days.

Can understand that you'd think it shouldn't be....but that's not the case and accidents happen. You could do everything in your power to make sex safe and still end of pregnant. No point is ruining someone's life because of a mistake.

That's a consequence of having sex though. Sex might be casual, but deciding to keep or kill off life isn't.

If the mother and father of an unborn foetus decides they don't want a kid and decide to have an abortion, i don't see what's morally wrong with that, i don't really think it's fair having to make a life long commitment to something if you're not ready or want to. I mean at the end of the day we're talking about a foetus in it's early stages here, it's not even a fully developed creature so it's nothing like killing baby, about as worthless as killing a sperm isn't it?

Barton wrote:If the mother and father of an unborn foetus decides they don't want a kid and decide to have an abortion, i don't see what's morally wrong with that, i don't really think it's fair having to make a life long commitment to something if you're not ready or want to. I mean at the end of the day we're talking about a foetus in it's early stages here, it's not even a fully developed creature so it's nothing like killing baby, about as worthless as killing a sperm isn't it?

Not really. You can always produce more sperm. A woman can't really produce more fertile eggs.

I agree with it. So many babies are born into awful communities, poor families or incapable families. They don't deserve this and a lot of the time they follow in their parents footsteps. It would save another human being from going through that shit.

Also, having a baby can ruin people's life. A 19 year old get's pregnant, that can ruin her social life, her career will be postponed most likely.

Sure, they should be more careful... but I bet all of us do careless things, crossing roads without taking our earphones out... But I bet if you get knocked over you wouldn't appreciate being told they hospital can't help you because it was your mistake.

ahlycotc wrote:

Lux wrote:

Meh, sex is a common and usually casual thing these days.

Can understand that you'd think it shouldn't be....but that's not the case and accidents happen. You could do everything in your power to make sex safe and still end of pregnant. No point is ruining someone's life because of a mistake.

That's a consequence of having sex though. Sex might be casual, but deciding to keep or kill off life isn't.

I wouldn't consider it as life.

If you don't make the mistake, then it goes down the toilet anyway. So if you mistakenly get pregnant and abort it's basically the same as just not having sex. It's unrealistic to ask people to only have sex when they want a child, so it's unrealistic to ask them to have a child if they mistakenly get pregnant imo.

ahlycotc wrote:

Barton wrote:If the mother and father of an unborn foetus decides they don't want a kid and decide to have an abortion, i don't see what's morally wrong with that, i don't really think it's fair having to make a life long commitment to something if you're not ready or want to. I mean at the end of the day we're talking about a foetus in it's early stages here, it's not even a fully developed creature so it's nothing like killing baby, about as worthless as killing a sperm isn't it?

Not really. You can always produce more sperm. A woman can't really produce more fertile eggs.

I meant in terms of morality, people compare having an abortion to killing a baby, which i don't agree with.

I dont see why if someone has a down syndrome child it makes it ok, does that mean someone with down syndrome is less of a person, should we be allowed to kill off those who have down syndrome who werent aborted?

Sean wrote:I dont see why if someone has a down syndrome child it makes it ok, does that mean someone with down syndrome is less of a person, should we be allowed to kill off those who have down syndrome who werent aborted?

I personally don't consider that a severe disorder.

ahlycotc wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:I can understand people saying that it's just a normal medical procedure, so people should be allowed to do it whenever they like, and I can understand people saying that it's murder. What absolutely mystifies me is the people who go in the middle - ie. saying that it's OK if there's a rape, or there is some retardation. Retardation is no excuse for killing someone, and neither is the fact that they were produced by a rape. If it's OK in those circumstances, why is it unacceptable in cases where someone simply doesn't want a child?

Unlike the rape victim, the person had a choice to have a child.

If you are talking in absolutes like that then so did the rape victim. Have you heard of morning after pills?

It's right in all cases.

I'm still debating whether I agree with anytime abortion though (that being during anytime during the pregnancy, from 1 week to 40 weeks or whatever it is, I know I'm an evil person)

RR, if someone's just been raped they probably arent going to be able to think logically like that

Sean wrote:I dont see why if someone has a down syndrome child it makes it ok, does that mean someone with down syndrome is less of a person, should we be allowed to kill off those who have down syndrome who werent aborted?

Once the child is born then it's morally too late and wrong, in this era anyway.

Personally, I don't think those kinds of things should knowingly be passed down. Surely it's better to just stop the line there and get rid of it from existence as less and less people have it and pass it on.

Other than being a bad life (or in the case of someone who doesn't know better...a fairly meaningless life)....it's also just a waste of resources. I'm not cold but those kinds of things have to be considered....if money isn't spent on those people, it could be spent on other things (such as saving the lives of people without such an illness or condition). From a neutral perspective.....it's surely better to have someone is who able bodied and able minded who can have a full and contributive life, than someone who would have a more limited life and drain on others (and ultimately as we do not have infinite resources.....this kind of thing does happen in real life. I also feel for the parents who basically lose their lives as they have to look after their disabled child and can't do anything else.

But to conclude....it's not right to kill anyone once their born (although the death penalty is a different story)....but I'd say it's right to do everything else to prevent it from happening.

If a child is coming into this world, but the mother/father (if both stick around) will not be able to properly care for it (in circumstances such as homeless mother/father, under 17 parents, or others) then in my opinion the child is probably better off not coming into the world at all. This child will have its early life ruined and more likely that not ruin the rest of the parent's life (in a sense).