Manchester City v Liverpool | Tuesday 3th January| 20:00

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

What the hell are you talking about? Torres was made into a super hero by Gerrard. Gerrard is, as far as I am concerned, the only reason Liverpool have managed to hang on to the top four for as long as they have.

That's the narrative, that Gerrard is a sort of God, but that's not how I see it. He is a very very greedy player who always tries to do everything himself, it's not immediately obvious because he's such a God there for when his greedy occasionally pays off (eg. Istabul, the game against West Ham) but I try not to let that cloud my view. You look at the players who have surrounded him when he's been at Liverpool, the likes of Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Daniel Murphy, Michael Owen, Robert Fowler, Sami Hyypia, these are not bad players, and they've proved it when they're away from Gerrard. Watch him for England and it's more obvious, when there are even better players around him.

fluffy_kittens wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

That's exactly the problem with Gerrard at Liverpool. Tonight, sure, everyone else has been shite even before he came on, but with them and with England generally, he always tries to do everything himself. He is the most egotistical and selfish player I have ever seen, how else could he score so many long range goals? Because he's too selfish to pass, or because he doesn't have any faith in his teammates to do anything with the ball if he does pass it to them. That's why Liverpool have never and will never won the League with him in the side, and why England have never and will never win anything at all with him, while he picks up a shitload of personal accolades.

won the champions league once, made it to the final twice, the reason he is selfish is because most of the time he needs to be the spark to get Liverpool going as some of the other players he's played with over the years simply weren't all that great.

Big_Tihno wrote:I think RR makes some very solid points.

*Waits for people to insult me*

Big_Tihno wrote:I think RR makes some very solid points.

*Waits for people to insult me*

Dan wrote:WankeRR is just a RRetard. He likes to draw attention to himself because he doesn't get it in real life.

ahlycotc wrote:

Big_Tihno wrote:I think RR makes some very solid points.

*Waits for people to insult me*

Cunt.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Dan wrote:WankeRR is just a RRetard. He likes to draw attention to himself because he doesn't get it in real life.

NZG wrote:

Big_Tihno wrote:I think RR makes some very solid points.

*Waits for people to insult me*

shut up sean.

Big_Tihno wrote:

NZG wrote:

shut up sean.

As Jordi has said I am not this "Sean" character.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

fluffy_kittens wrote:

won the champions league once, made it to the final twice, the reason he is selfish is because most of the time he needs to be the spark to get Liverpool going as some of the other players he's played with over the years simply weren't all that great.

Who? Torres? Suarez? Owen? Fowler? Alonso? Mascherano? Garcia? Bellamy? Are we now rewriting Gerrard's history to say that all these players were absolutely shite when he was there? It's a crock of shit.

NZG wrote:

Big_Tihno wrote:

As Jordi has said I am not this "Sean" character.

whatever you say sean.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

What the hell are you talking about? Torres was made into a super hero by Gerrard. Gerrard is, as far as I am concerned, the only reason Liverpool have managed to hang on to the top four for as long as they have.

That's the narrative, that Gerrard is a sort of God, but that's not how I see it. He is a very very greedy player who always tries to do everything himself, it's not immediately obvious because he's such a God there for when his greedy occasionally pays off (eg. Istabul, the game against West Ham) but I try not to let that cloud my view. You look at the players who have surrounded him when he's been at Liverpool, the likes of Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Daniel Murphy, Michael Owen, Robert Fowler, Sami Hyypia, these are not bad players, and they've proved it when they're away from Gerrard. Watch him for England and it's more obvious, when there are even better players around him.

El_indian wrote:I thought it was a penalty TBH, sure he kinda went looking for it but there was a bit of contact; Skrtel didn't get the ball either.

ahlycotc wrote:Big_Tihno must be a dupe because he called me a musriy.

Laurencio wrote:
Well you can see it how you want, but there's little doubting that Gerrard has been their most important player for years. As I see it, whenever he doesn't play with Lampard he always does an OK job for England, sure he isn't as good as he is for his club, but he does OK. I think he was one of the few English players that weren't completely shambolic in WC2010, with the exception of the dreadful Algeria match.

In terms of Liverpool I would say that he has long been the only world class player in an average squad. He has been used all over the middle, and rarely complained. He worked his socks off for Liverpool and has done everything in his power to win the club titles. You rightly point out that he single handedly (more or less) won Liverpool the CL trophy in 2005, he more or less single handedly dominated the game against Real Madrid and he more or less single handedly held Liverpool floating towards the top for years.

Owen and Fowler were arguably "too early" for Gerrard to truly take advantage of their class, not only that but the manager at the time wasn't really all that good either. It began to flow better when Benitez brought in the world class spaniards (Alonso, Reina and Torres). He was allowed to play more to his strength and given more freedom. He had a capable striker in front of him, that he could always rely on. After years of waiting he finally got players around him who could free him up and let him play as he needed, the makings of a world class squad. They finished the season second with a point haul that usually won the league, largely because of Gerrard's assists and goals, he was by far their most important player once again. When the others fell around him that season he REFUSED to lie down and die.

Then it all fell apart as Alonso was sold and Gerrard was once again surrounded by a majority of averageness. That severely affected Torres as well as Gerard, and his injuries didn't help either. Liverpool were damn close to becoming world class again, but with the sale of Alonso, the financial collapse (more or less) they were shot back several years, if not a decade.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Laurencio wrote:
Well you can see it how you want, but there's little doubting that Gerrard has been their most important player for years. As I see it, whenever he doesn't play with Lampard he always does an OK job for England, sure he isn't as good as he is for his club, but he does OK. I think he was one of the few English players that weren't completely shambolic in WC2010, with the exception of the dreadful Algeria match.

In terms of Liverpool I would say that he has long been the only world class player in an average squad. He has been used all over the middle, and rarely complained. He worked his socks off for Liverpool and has done everything in his power to win the club titles. You rightly point out that he single handedly (more or less) won Liverpool the CL trophy in 2005, he more or less single handedly dominated the game against Real Madrid and he more or less single handedly held Liverpool floating towards the top for years.

Owen and Fowler were arguably "too early" for Gerrard to truly take advantage of their class, not only that but the manager at the time wasn't really all that good either. It began to flow better when Benitez brought in the world class spaniards (Alonso, Reina and Torres). He was allowed to play more to his strength and given more freedom. He had a capable striker in front of him, that he could always rely on. After years of waiting he finally got players around him who could free him up and let him play as he needed, the makings of a world class squad. They finished the season second with a point haul that usually won the league, largely because of Gerrard's assists and goals, he was by far their most important player once again. When the others fell around him that season he REFUSED to lie down and die.

Then it all fell apart as Alonso was sold and Gerrard was once again surrounded by a majority of averageness. That severely affected Torres as well as Gerard, and his injuries didn't help either. Liverpool were damn close to becoming world class again, but with the sale of Alonso, the financial collapse (more or less) they were shot back several years, if not a decade.

He's consistently shite for England, always running out of position and giving the ball away, again because he does what he wants because he thinks he's a hero. You mention the game against Algeria, but the game against USA, he had a pass ratio of about 50%, this as a central midfielder, against Slovenia he was constantly running out of position, against Germany he was an absolute disgrace, cost England any chance with his failure to track runners, and zero positive influence going forward.

The only world class player? Come on...he has played with some incredible players at Liverpool, and he's done the same with England. He does work his socks off, but that comes at the expense of any tactical discipline, which is why Benitez was extremely reluctant to ever play him in central midfield, and Capello is the same. You talk about that great attacking performance against Real Madrid, they had similarly great attacking performances against Arsenal and Chelsea that season (better sides at the time) without Gerrard, and without assistance from the referees either.

Over a third of his goals were penalties in that amazing season, and he had some pot shots fly in, but it's normal when you take a shitload of shots that in one season you'll score quite a lot of goals. He didn't do it the previous season when he had the same players around him. As for REFUSING to lie down and die, that's just bollocks, he always does that, any professional player does, that's not why they pushed for the title.

It did fall when the genuinely world class players were sold and Gerrard couldn't do anything because that immense midfield two weren't dominating games any more. If he can only do it when he's got Alonso and Mascherano behind him maybe he isn't all that fantastic.

Fonseca wrote:Oh Liverpool were shit? Well with that team what did anyone expect