Ac Milan given permission to talk to Carlos Tevez

SSN reporting the news. No fee agreed yet though.

Prepare for Tevez throwing a fit over Ibrahimovic being played regulary

Tevez and Ibra in the same team, bodes well.

Perfect little and large combination.

Cam wrote:Perfect little and large combination.

Yeah except that Tevez demands to be the star, and it's quite obvious that Ibra is both a bigger star and a better footballer than him

Tevez>Ibra

Jeffharper2012 wrote:Tevez>Ibra

How do you figure that?

Ibrahimovic is stronger, better in the air, a better finisher, a better dribbler, has far better technique than Tevez, is far more creative, is better at passing, has more power in his shot and at his best can take an entire team all on his own.

Robinho, Zlatan, Duck, Cassano, Tevez........ OH MY GOD

Well Cassano's had a stroke so you can forget about him, it's a fierce quartet of strikers though.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Well Cassano's had a stroke so you can forget about him, it's a fierce quartet of strikers though.

He'll be back though.

OK Dr. Kuled.

Can't see him lasting more than a year without upsetting his manager, fans and team mates by showing his complete lack of commitment.

Laurencio wrote:

Jeffharper2012 wrote:Tevez>Ibra

How do you figure that?

Ibrahimovic is stronger, better in the air, a better finisher, a better dribbler, has far better technique than Tevez, is far more creative, is better at passing, has more power in his shot and at his best can take an entire team all on his own.

Ibra is probably better all around than tevez but tevez is the better striker in my opinon so i'd rather have tevez.

Laurencio wrote:

Jeffharper2012 wrote:Tevez>Ibra

How do you figure that?

Ibrahimovic is stronger, better in the air, a better finisher, a better dribbler, has far better technique than Tevez, is far more creative, is better at passing, has more power in his shot and at his best can take an entire team all on his own.

Some of those are wrong. Tevez is a better finisher, just as good a dribbler, just as good a passer, just as good a long distance shooter and can also take entire teams on his own at his best. Not to mention that Tevez has more stamina, probably faster and his movement is much better than that of Ibrahimovic. Also, Ibrahimovic has only once scored 20 league goals or more in the league despite playing in some of the best teams in the world. Tevez did it twice with a Manchester City side that was very much in the construction phase. Ibrahimovic is a good player but I rate a fit and bothered Tevez as the best striker in the world.

JMB_94 wrote:Can't see him lasting more than a year without upsetting his manager, fans and team mates by showing his complete lack of commitment.

I imagine it would take about a month before he and Ibra clash.

Jeffharper2012 wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

How do you figure that?

Ibrahimovic is stronger, better in the air, a better finisher, a better dribbler, has far better technique than Tevez, is far more creative, is better at passing, has more power in his shot and at his best can take an entire team all on his own.

Ibra is probably better all around than tevez but tevez is the better striker in my opinon so i'd rather have tevez.

How is a better striker? Ibrahimovic is better in almost every department bar workrate.

BladeGunner14 wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

How do you figure that?

Ibrahimovic is stronger, better in the air, a better finisher, a better dribbler, has far better technique than Tevez, is far more creative, is better at passing, has more power in his shot and at his best can take an entire team all on his own.

Some of those are wrong. Tevez is a better finisher, just as good a dribbler, just as good a passer, just as good a long distance shooter and can also take entire teams on his own at his best. Not to mention that Tevez has more stamina, probably faster and his movement is much better than that of Ibrahimovic. Also, Ibrahimovic has only once scored 20 league goals or more in the league despite playing in some of the best teams in the world. Tevez did it twice with a Manchester City side that was very much in the construction phase. Ibrahimovic is a good player but I rate a fit and bothered Tevez as the best striker in the world.

Tevez is not as good a finisher as Ibra, he's not anywhere near being as good as a dribbler, his passing is good for a striker, but Ibra can pass like a midfield playmaker. Now he does have more stammina and runs around a hell of a lot more, but most of his movements resemble that of a headless chicken. He's "annoying" to play against because of his workrate and agression. Ibra is annoying to play against because he's just that good.

I dunno how you can rate Tevez as the best striker in the world when there are easily 3-4 strikers in the premiership who are better than him

ResurrectionRooney wrote:OK Dr. Kuled.

No need to be so sarcastic, I read that he may return at the beginning of the new year

I agree with Blade on this one, Tevez is an immense player and as much as Manchester city fans don't want to admit it, he was their most influential player over the last couple of seasons. He would still walk into Manchester United's starting line-up and probably Real Madrid's as well. Ibra's inconsistency against the big teams holds him back from being one of the best.

Jordi wrote:Tevez and Ibra in the same team, bodes well.

bodes well for a bunch of negative attitudes

thedinho wrote:I agree with Blade on this one, Tevez is an immense player and as much as Manchester city fans don't want to admit it, he was their most influential player over the last couple of seasons. He would still walk into Manchester United's starting line-up and probably Real Madrid's as well. Ibra's inconsistency against the big teams holds him back from being one of the best.

The only time Ibra is "inconsistent" is in the champions league. And even that is debatable these days. He certainly looked fit and ready against Barca. When he was with Inter he basically carried Inter through matches during the weekend, and was "less" effective during mid-week.

His Champions League stats in recent years is still pretty good though:

2009 - Barcelona: 10 app - 4 goals
2010 - Milan: 8 app - 4 goals
2011 - Milan: 4 app - 4 goals

You're dreaming if you think Tevez could take Ibra's place at Milan.

As in terms of "influential". This is the man who carried Inter to several of their scudettos, was instrumental in Juve's scudetto's as well. The man who went to spain and was labled a flop despite scoring for fun until he got into a row with Guardiola (probably over Messi), returned to italy, came to Milan and carried them to a scudetto in his first season and is currently being a massive pressence in both Serie A and the Champions League for Milan.

Laurencio wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:

Some of those are wrong. Tevez is a better finisher, just as good a dribbler, just as good a passer, just as good a long distance shooter and can also take entire teams on his own at his best. Not to mention that Tevez has more stamina, probably faster and his movement is much better than that of Ibrahimovic. Also, Ibrahimovic has only once scored 20 league goals or more in the league despite playing in some of the best teams in the world. Tevez did it twice with a Manchester City side that was very much in the construction phase. Ibrahimovic is a good player but I rate a fit and bothered Tevez as the best striker in the world.

Tevez is not as good a finisher as Ibra, he's not anywhere near being as good as a dribbler, his passing is good for a striker, but Ibra can pass like a midfield playmaker. Now he does have more stammina and runs around a hell of a lot more, but most of his movements resemble that of a headless chicken. He's "annoying" to play against because of his workrate and agression. Ibra is annoying to play against because he's just that good.

I dunno how you can rate Tevez as the best striker in the world when there are easily 3-4 strikers in the premiership who are better than him

There aren't three/four strikers better than him at all. Over the previous two seasons, he was by far and away the most consistent striker in the league, no doubt about it. Who even comes close? Drogba had a great 2009/10 but was absolute shit in 2010/11. Rooney had his best ever season in 09/10 but hasn't even come close to reaching that form for more than a year now. Van Persie's has had a phenomenal 2011 but I'd like to see him continue this form for multiple seasons. Agüero has been playing off Dzeko (who incidentally isn't half the player that Tevez is) so I wouldn't classify him as a striker. Tevez managed to carry City almost entirely alone in 09/10 and was probably the best player in the league in the season after that.

Ibrahimovic isn't as good as him. I don't know how you can suggest things like "Tevez is nowhere near as good a dribbler" and "most of his movements resemble that of a headless chicken". I'm not going to be condescending and simply attribute it to your bias towards Manchester United but there's surely something you're not seeing about him. He's scored some excellent individual goals in his time, Tevez, that prove that he is a brilliant dribbler and that his technique is fantastic. I think the fact that Tevez puts in so much effort makes people think of him as a workhorse sort of player a la Dirk Kuyt when he's far from it. I also think you're hugely over-rating Ibrahimovic's ability on the ball. He has really good technique for a big man but on a global scale, his technique is good, not great.

Laurencio wrote:

thedinho wrote:I agree with Blade on this one, Tevez is an immense player and as much as Manchester city fans don't want to admit it, he was their most influential player over the last couple of seasons. He would still walk into Manchester United's starting line-up and probably Real Madrid's as well. Ibra's inconsistency against the big teams holds him back from being one of the best.

The only time Ibra is "inconsistent" is in the champions league. And even that is debatable these days. He certainly looked fit and ready against Barca. When he was with Inter he basically carried Inter through matches during the weekend, and was "less" effective during mid-week.

His Champions League stats in recent years is still pretty good though:

2009 - Barcelona: 10 app - 4 goals
2010 - Milan: 8 app - 4 goals
2011 - Milan: 4 app - 4 goals

You're dreaming if you think Tevez could take Ibra's place at Milan.

What a surprise that his best form came with Inter when Serie A had been ravaged by the match-fixing scandal. And it's not his general Champions League form that's questionable. It's his ability to perform in the knockout rounds against quality opposition. 2 goals in countless games and a failure to show up in many of them. In all his glory with Inter, he never once managed to lead his side past the Round of 16. Good player but not as good as Tevez.

Tevez is a better striker than Ibra.

BladeGunner14 wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

Tevez is not as good a finisher as Ibra, he's not anywhere near being as good as a dribbler, his passing is good for a striker, but Ibra can pass like a midfield playmaker. Now he does have more stammina and runs around a hell of a lot more, but most of his movements resemble that of a headless chicken. He's "annoying" to play against because of his workrate and agression. Ibra is annoying to play against because he's just that good.

I dunno how you can rate Tevez as the best striker in the world when there are easily 3-4 strikers in the premiership who are better than him

There aren't three/four strikers better than him at all. Over the previous two seasons, he was by far and away the most consistent striker in the league, no doubt about it. Who even comes close? Drogba had a great 2009/10 but was absolute shit in 2010/11. Rooney had his best ever season in 09/10 but hasn't even come close to reaching that form for more than a year now. Van Persie's has had a phenomenal 2011 but I'd like to see him continue this form for multiple seasons. Agüero has been playing off Dzeko (who incidentally isn't half the player that Tevez is) so I wouldn't classify him as a striker. Tevez managed to carry City almost entirely alone in 09/10 and was probably the best player in the league in the season after that.

Ibrahimovic isn't as good as him. I don't know how you can suggest things like "Tevez is nowhere near as good a dribbler" and "most of his movements resemble that of a headless chicken". I'm not going to be condescending and simply attribute it to your bias towards Manchester United but there's surely something you're not seeing about him. He's scored some excellent individual goals in his time, Tevez, that prove that he is a brilliant dribbler and that his technique is fantastic. I think the fact that Tevez puts in so much effort makes people think of him as a workhorse sort of player a la Dirk Kuyt when he's far from it. I also think you're hugely over-rating Ibrahimovic's ability on the ball. He has really good technique for a big man but on a global scale, his technique is good, not great.

In my honest opinion, Agüero, Rooney and Robin Van Persie are all better strikers than Tevez. I'm not sure why you don't feel it "right" to label Agüero a striker though. You mention him as the best striker in the world, yet I can not see how he can be that when he's not even the best Agentine striker. In fact, I would say he's the 3rd or 4th best striker they have. Higuain is better, Agüero is better and since Messi has been playing in the middle for Barca for two seasons now, there's a strong case to say he's a better striker too (he's obviously a better player).

Tevez while he played for us worked very hard and we admired him for it, but his movement quite often resembled that of an undisiplined headless chicken, chasing balls on a whim. That extra touch of intelligence in his play, that the very best have, was as I saw it, lacking. I would never say he's on par with Kuyt, he's easily far more talented on the ball than him, that much is obvious.

When it comes to Ibrahimovic I strongly disagree that his tecnique is merely "good". There are very few players who has as good control of the ball as him, and there are very few players who can rely on their skill on the ball rather than speed to get past opponents. Ibra isn't as fast as Tevez, but his technique is simply sublime, and not just for a "big player".

BladeGunner14 wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

The only time Ibra is "inconsistent" is in the champions league. And even that is debatable these days. He certainly looked fit and ready against Barca. When he was with Inter he basically carried Inter through matches during the weekend, and was "less" effective during mid-week.

His Champions League stats in recent years is still pretty good though:

2009 - Barcelona: 10 app - 4 goals
2010 - Milan: 8 app - 4 goals
2011 - Milan: 4 app - 4 goals

You're dreaming if you think Tevez could take Ibra's place at Milan.

What a surprise that his best form came with Inter when Serie A had been ravaged by the match-fixing scandal. And it's not his general Champions League form that's questionable. It's his ability to perform in the knockout rounds against quality opposition. 2 goals in countless games and a failure to show up in many of them. In all his glory with Inter, he never once managed to lead his side past the Round of 16. Good player but not as good as Tevez.

Inter? Milan is AC Milan. That's this year and last year. Inter simply never had the squad to compete on that level. It was litteraly "either Ibra shows up, or Inter struggle badly". Mourinho changed that when he sold Ibra and brought in a number of quality players. The sale of Ibra was never what "triggered" the champions league winning side, it was the introduction of quality players like Lucio, like Sneijder, like Eto'o and like Milito. Players Inter couldn't have bought if they hadn't sold Ibra.

And since when did Tevez ever lead any side past the knockout stages? We were lead by Ronaldo. City's "Europa League" adventure wasn't exactly successful, and he did basically nothing to help that one, and when they finaly did make it to the Champions League he refuses to play.

You evidently don't think highly of him and massively under-rate him. Higuain's a great goalscorer but he is relatively limited in comparison to Tevez. The latter gives so many more options when he's on the pitch. Iwouldn't say Agüero's better than him. He's undoubtedly excellent but maybe after a full season in England, I'll be able to judge him more fairly. He's obviously started the season brilliantly and was great mostof the time with Atlético but there's a reason as to why Tevez had constantly been favoured in the national team up until recently. While Agüero's a better dribbler and is more creative, I feel that Tevez is a better finisher and has qualities more suited to a striker. Agüero has been thriving playing off Dzeko at City, that's probably where he belongs. Messi has never played as a striker with Barcelona. If you observe his movement, you'll find that he plays a free role where he seamlessly moves across the forward line. I'm not saying he wouldn't be the world's best striker if he was played there, I'm just saying that he's never been played there and hence we can't compare.

As for Ibrahimovic, I really think you're over-exaggerating his talent massively. You frankly haven't provided any sort of factual evidence in that section. All you've done is praise his technique. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to argue against that.

When I said his best period was with Inter, I wasn't referencing anything you mentioned, it was just my insight. I don't know how you can say that Inter simply didn't have the necessary squad to reach that level. They were destroying Milan during that period in the league and they won the Champions League in one of those seasons. They were also knocked out by Valencia, Liverpool and Manchester United in Ibrahimovic's three seasons at the club. Are you saying they had worse squads than Valencia and Liverpool? No way in hell. And Inter's team during those years consisted of many of the pillars of the same team that won the Champions League in 2010. Mourinho brought in good players but he didn't suddenly improve the squad that much.

And Tevez's second season with United doesn't exactly provide a decent valuation of his ability. He went through the whole season being disregarded while a vastly inferior player, Berbatov, took his place in the side. Despite that, I vividly remember him playing excellently against Arsenal in the first leg of the semi-finals of the Champions League in that year. He was an integral part of the double winning side in 2008 too. City's Europa League "adventure" wasn't exactly successful because it evidently wasn't their priority. I'm not even sure if he played in the knockout round against Dynamo Kiev. He's managed to lead them in the league very well though despite being surrounded by many sub-par players during that time.

BladeGunner14 wrote:You evidently don't think highly of him and massively under-rate him. Higuain's a great goalscorer but he is relatively limited in comparison to Tevez. The latter gives so many more options when he's on the pitch. Iwouldn't say Agüero's better than him. He's undoubtedly excellent but maybe after a full season in England, I'll be able to judge him more fairly. He's obviously started the season brilliantly and was great mostof the time with Atlético but there's a reason as to why Tevez had constantly been favoured in the national team up until recently. While Agüero's a better dribbler and is more creative, I feel that Tevez is a better finisher and has qualities more suited to a striker. Agüero has been thriving playing off Dzeko at City, that's probably where he belongs. Messi has never played as a striker with Barcelona. If you observe his movement, you'll find that he plays a free role where he seamlessly moves across the forward line. I'm not saying he wouldn't be the world's best striker if he was played there, I'm just saying that he's never been played there and hence we can't compare.

As for Ibrahimovic, I really think you're over-exaggerating his talent massively. You frankly haven't provided any sort of factual evidence in that section. All you've done is praise his technique. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to argue against that.

When I said his best period was with Inter, I wasn't referencing anything you mentioned, it was just my insight. I don't know how you can say that Inter simply didn't have the necessary squad to reach that level. They were destroying Milan during that period in the league and they won the Champions League in one of those seasons. They were also knocked out by Valencia, Liverpool and Manchester United in Ibrahimovic's three seasons at the club. Are you saying they had worse squads than Valencia and Liverpool? No way in hell. And Inter's team during those years consisted of many of the pillars of the same team that won the Champions League in 2010. Mourinho brought in good players but he didn't suddenly improve the squad that much.

And Tevez's second season with United doesn't exactly provide a decent valuation of his ability. He went through the whole season being disregarded while a vastly inferior player, Berbatov, took his place in the side. Despite that, I vividly remember him playing excellently against Arsenal in the first leg of the semi-finals of the Champions League in that year. He was an integral part of the double winning side in 2008 too. City's Europa League "adventure" wasn't exactly successful because it evidently wasn't their priority. I'm not even sure if he played in the knockout round against Dynamo Kiev. He's managed to lead them in the league very well though despite being surrounded by many sub-par players during that time.

I don't rate him highly because I've never thought his movements have been all that good. Even during his first season with us I thought his movements were too erratic, often too agressive, and that he wasted a lot of energy just running around the pitch (hence headless chicken). It did help us considering he pressured the opponents, but he was never a main attacking outlet for us, and when he did get the "attacker" role I though that he often made completely ridiculous decisions in terms of play and passes.

Don't get me wrong he's a good player, and he'd be an asset for any team, but he's never going to be "The Star" at a very top European club.

Granted Higuain is not as versatile as Tevez, but he gets the goals. Tevez may be better playing with his back to the goal, and chasing the opponent around, but Higuain is simply better at putting the ball in the net. If a manager wants to break down a defence he doesn't pick Tevez mainly due to his creativity, finishing or even link up play, but due to his ability to close down and distrupt defenders. He's certainly a very useful player, who does have a lot of technical ability as well, but I would never consider him a "main man". Sergio Agüero is simply better at everything except for closing down opponents. He's also a "smarter" player, who picks passes and runs a lot more wisely than Tevez. I never understood Argentina's decision to play Tevez ahead of Agüero. It never made any sense to me.

Lione Messi does move all over the pitch, but he is most often the man who runs through the middle, and is the focal point of the attack. Pedro and Villa usually cut in from the sides, so I would say Messi is the closest thing to a striker Barca has at the moment.

There's no "evidence" to be presented. You're saying his technique is simply "good", and ask me to present evidence of the contrary. When that simply isn't true, nor have you presented any "evidence" to support that either. In his numerous apperances for Inter, Barca and Milan he's displayed technique of the very highest level. I don't know if you watch the Italian and Spanish league, but from watching him play it should be fairly obvious to anyone how good of a player, and how good of a technique, he really is/has.

I would say his "best" period is right now. The way he's playing for AC Milan now easily matches what he did for Inter, although he's a tad bit slower, and probably trumps that period of his career. I am not saying that Inter didn't have a good squad, but it's a well known fact in Italian football that Ibra carried Inter through the league on several occasions. Mancini's defensive approach to the Champions League probably didn't help all that much either.

In 2006/2007, they were knocked out by Valencia on away goals. Ibrahimovic had one shot hit the inside of the post and go out, and one that was a magnificent parry by Canizares.

In 2007/2008 In the first leg, Inter defender Materazzi recieves a red card in the 30th minute and Inter are down to 10 men against the best Liverpool side in the Premiership era. Cambiasso missed a great oppertunity to score from an Ibrahimovic pass. In the second, Cruz missed two great chances to score, both after Ibrahimovic played him through. Although I fully admitt that in this game Ibra could, and maybe should, have scored two goals himself.

In 2008/2009 Inter lost to a Manchester United side who went all the way to the final. Not really all that surprising. The squad wasn't really strong enough to compete in the champions league anymore either. Relying too much one one man.

Before Mourinho went out and bought players for the Ibra money, Ibra was largely involved in most areas of the game. He was their goalscorer (replaced by Eto'o), their link up man (Replaced by Sneijder), and their "second striker" (Diego Milito) all packed into one. In addition he reinforced the midfield with Thiago Motta, improved the defence with Lucio and added to the quality of the squad with Pandev.

Before that he had an aging Crespo and Cruz who couldn't find the net, a young and even more volatile than now Balottelli, a handful of youngsters and Ibrahimovic. So most of the time they relied entirely on one man to do the job for them.

Tevez was never "alone" though. He had Ronaldo who was our main man, Rooney who was our second man and Scholes who took care of most of the link up play. We had the squad to compete at the time. Inter didn't, and relied too much on their star. As for leading them in the leauge, that's exactly what Ibrahimovic has been doing for many seasons now. He led Inter to league titles, winning games on his own. Last season he led AC Milan, and he's leading them very well this season as well. AC Milan's general strategy in tough games has been "pass it to Ibra and hope for magic". And it's been working quite well so far.

Laurencio wrote:

BladeGunner14 wrote:You evidently don't think highly of him and massively under-rate him. Higuain's a great goalscorer but he is relatively limited in comparison to Tevez. The latter gives so many more options when he's on the pitch. Iwouldn't say Agüero's better than him. He's undoubtedly excellent but maybe after a full season in England, I'll be able to judge him more fairly. He's obviously started the season brilliantly and was great mostof the time with Atlético but there's a reason as to why Tevez had constantly been favoured in the national team up until recently. While Agüero's a better dribbler and is more creative, I feel that Tevez is a better finisher and has qualities more suited to a striker. Agüero has been thriving playing off Dzeko at City, that's probably where he belongs. Messi has never played as a striker with Barcelona. If you observe his movement, you'll find that he plays a free role where he seamlessly moves across the forward line. I'm not saying he wouldn't be the world's best striker if he was played there, I'm just saying that he's never been played there and hence we can't compare.

As for Ibrahimovic, I really think you're over-exaggerating his talent massively. You frankly haven't provided any sort of factual evidence in that section. All you've done is praise his technique. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to argue against that.

When I said his best period was with Inter, I wasn't referencing anything you mentioned, it was just my insight. I don't know how you can say that Inter simply didn't have the necessary squad to reach that level. They were destroying Milan during that period in the league and they won the Champions League in one of those seasons. They were also knocked out by Valencia, Liverpool and Manchester United in Ibrahimovic's three seasons at the club. Are you saying they had worse squads than Valencia and Liverpool? No way in hell. And Inter's team during those years consisted of many of the pillars of the same team that won the Champions League in 2010. Mourinho brought in good players but he didn't suddenly improve the squad that much.

And Tevez's second season with United doesn't exactly provide a decent valuation of his ability. He went through the whole season being disregarded while a vastly inferior player, Berbatov, took his place in the side. Despite that, I vividly remember him playing excellently against Arsenal in the first leg of the semi-finals of the Champions League in that year. He was an integral part of the double winning side in 2008 too. City's Europa League "adventure" wasn't exactly successful because it evidently wasn't their priority. I'm not even sure if he played in the knockout round against Dynamo Kiev. He's managed to lead them in the league very well though despite being surrounded by many sub-par players during that time.

I don't rate him highly because I've never thought his movements have been all that good. Even during his first season with us I thought his movements were too erratic, often too agressive, and that he wasted a lot of energy just running around the pitch (hence headless chicken). It did help us considering he pressured the opponents, but he was never a main attacking outlet for us, and when he did get the "attacker" role I though that he often made completely ridiculous decisions in terms of play and passes.

Don't get me wrong he's a good player, and he'd be an asset for any team, but he's never going to be "The Star" at a very top European club.

Granted Higuain is not as versatile as Tevez, but he gets the goals. Tevez may be better playing with his back to the goal, and chasing the opponent around, but Higuain is simply better at putting the ball in the net. If a manager wants to break down a defence he doesn't pick Tevez mainly due to his creativity, finishing or even link up play, but due to his ability to close down and distrupt defenders. He's certainly a very useful player, who does have a lot of technical ability as well, but I would never consider him a "main man". Sergio Agüero is simply better at everything except for closing down opponents. He's also a "smarter" player, who picks passes and runs a lot more wisely than Tevez. I never understood Argentina's decision to play Tevez ahead of Agüero. It never made any sense to me.

Lione Messi does move all over the pitch, but he is most often the man who runs through the middle, and is the focal point of the attack. Pedro and Villa usually cut in from the sides, so I would say Messi is the closest thing to a striker Barca has at the moment.

There's no "evidence" to be presented. You're saying his technique is simply "good", and ask me to present evidence of the contrary. When that simply isn't true, nor have you presented any "evidence" to support that either. In his numerous apperances for Inter, Barca and Milan he's displayed technique of the very highest level. I don't know if you watch the Italian and Spanish league, but from watching him play it should be fairly obvious to anyone how good of a player, and how good of a technique, he really is/has.

I would say his "best" period is right now. The way he's playing for AC Milan now easily matches what he did for Inter, although he's a tad bit slower, and probably trumps that period of his career. I am not saying that Inter didn't have a good squad, but it's a well known fact in Italian football that Ibra carried Inter through the league on several occasions. Mancini's defensive approach to the Champions League probably didn't help all that much either.

In 2006/2007, they were knocked out by Valencia on away goals. Ibrahimovic had one shot hit the inside of the post and go out, and one that was a magnificent parry by Canizares.

In 2007/2008 In the first leg, Inter defender Materazzi recieves a red card in the 30th minute and Inter are down to 10 men against the best Liverpool side in the Premiership era. Cambiasso missed a great oppertunity to score from an Ibrahimovic pass. In the second, Cruz missed two great chances to score, both after Ibrahimovic played him through. Although I fully admitt that in this game Ibra could, and maybe should, have scored two goals himself.

In 2008/2009 Inter lost to a Manchester United side who went all the way to the final. Not really all that surprising. The squad wasn't really strong enough to compete in the champions league anymore either. Relying too much one one man.

Before Mourinho went out and bought players for the Ibra money, Ibra was largely involved in most areas of the game. He was their goalscorer (replaced by Eto'o), their link up man (Replaced by Sneijder), and their "second striker" (Diego Milito) all packed into one. In addition he reinforced the midfield with Thiago Motta, improved the defence with Lucio and added to the quality of the squad with Pandev.

Before that he had an aging Crespo and Cruz who couldn't find the net, a young and even more volatile than now Balottelli, a handful of youngsters and Ibrahimovic. So most of the time they relied entirely on one man to do the job for them.

Tevez was never "alone" though. He had Ronaldo who was our main man, Rooney who was our second man and Scholes who took care of most of the link up play. We had the squad to compete at the time. Inter didn't, and relied too much on their star. As for leading them in the leauge, that's exactly what Ibrahimovic has been doing for many seasons now. He led Inter to league titles, winning games on his own. Last season he led AC Milan, and he's leading them very well this season as well. AC Milan's general strategy in tough games has been "pass it to Ibra and hope for magic". And it's been working quite well so far.

I really don't see how you can keep on saying that his movements are poor. He has energy in abundance so I don't see how his movements would be unnecessary. With United, he was never prioritized and was played out of position regularly in order to allow Ronaldo to be the focal point of the team. Even Rooney wasn't particularly good during those couple of seasons. I actually remember him and Rooney linking up well frequently during the early parts of the 07/08 season before that partnership was compromised and Ronaldo took over. He never got the necessary opportunities to display his skills there.

I think it's very possible for him to be the "star" at a high profile European club. He's proven that he's capable of doing it on his own with a not particularly good City side. Why should that change if he was playing at a better side?

I think you're wrong by saying that Tevez would only be picked for hassling defenders. He's clearly capable of so much more. He is capable of doing things that Higuaín could only dream of. His goal against Serbia in 2006, his goal against Mexico in 2010, his goal against Chelsea from 25 yards last season, his solo effort against Wolves, his free-kick against Stoke... etc are all things that Higuaín could never do. Agüero is also not better than him at everything bar defending. Tevez is faster, a better finisher, a better shooter and his movement is also better.

I realize that Messi is the closest thing they have to a striker but that doesn't make him an out-and-out centre forward though. I'm sure if he did play there properly, he'd still be the best in the world though but it would be unfair to judge him hypothetically.

I do watch a fair amount of the Italian and the Spanish league so I'm quite knowledgeable as to how good Ibrahimovic is. There's nothing that resonates in my mind that indicates to me that he has exceptional technique. Could you please provide me with a clip or two of him displaying his supposedly phenomenal technique?

You keep providing excuses for him but the fact of the matter is that he's only ever scored two goals in so many knockout round matches and he's only ever scored more than 20 goals in one season, which incidentally was with Inter which is why I labeled his time there as the best of his life. There's no reasonable excuse as to why an Inter side that won three consecutive scuddetos could not beat Valencia. Good squad or not, Inter had a better team than them and Ibrahimovic should have risen to the occasion but did not. The Liverpool side of that season wasn't their best in the Premiership era anyway (it was the one of the season after) and they weren't significantly better than Inter. Also, if the champions of Italy had such a poor squad, shouldn't that undermine Ibrahimovic's achievements as according to you, Serie A evidently wasn't that great. And at that time, it really wasn't. Only Roma were providing serious competition in the league as Milan and Juventus rebuilt after they had been decimated by the scandal of 2006.

Also, I don't think it's a particularly significant achievement that he scored 16 goals with Barcelona and yet he was considered a flop. Villa basically did the same thing last season. At Barcelona, so many opportunities are created. You'd have to be totally incompetent if you failed to score goals while playing as the centre forward.

I never suggested that Tevez was alone, he evidently wasn't at all. He was though at City. The only time Ibrahimovic was alone was at Inter and I've already accounted for that period. At Milan, he is far from the "only man". He barely even scored in the second half of last season so he certainly didn't lead them single-handedly in the league as Tevez did with City. Milan won the scudetto through the help of their formidable defence as well as their decent attack which was down to both Ibrahimovic and Pato, among others (Boateng, Robinho...etc). No way did Ibrahimovic do it on his own.

ViVaRooney wrote:

^

Fuck this, I'm outtie.

Woah. Posts over 4 lines long.

Banworthy.