The Atheist Thread

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

FCB wrote:

You have to realize the difference between knowing the future and choosing the future. The choice was on you. But because God has the knowledge of the future, he knows what you will choose.

It wasn't a stage of any development.

If God creates me, knowing what I will choose because of my characteristics which he also created then it is his responsibility, his choice.  I am just following the script that he laid out.

If I was totally undeveloped intellectually then it is terrible.

Think of this way, maybe it will help you differentiate between the two. You wrote your own script by the choices you made and God has the ability to watch the film of the future. He knows what's going to happen next, but the actions were formed by you.

FCB wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

If God creates me, knowing what I will choose because of my characteristics which he also created then it is his responsibility, his choice.  I am just following the script that he laid out.

If I was totally undeveloped intellectually then it is terrible.

Think of this way, maybe it will help you differentiate between the two. You wrote your own script by the choices you made and God has the ability to watch the film of the future. He knows what's going to happen next, but the actions were formed by you.

Your argument falls down because God created me and every aspect of my personality knowing how it would impact me going forward. There is no wiggle room here, if you have an omnipotent, omniscient God who created everything he is directly responsible for everything that happens.

Do you think it is just to make somebody who has no real world experience, no education and no real intellectual capacity make a decision that impacts them for eternity?

Crazy how this forum has been around my entire adult life. When I first joined I was a somewhat brainwashed teenage muslim with a closed minded approach to life. I only recently freed my mind from religious corruption thanks to the internet and a dose of rational thinking. Attempting to bump this thread and kickstart discussions again even though there aren't many active posters on here anymore.

Would you say RR helped you become an atheist? 

If so you're the second person to come out and say that he's now an atheist thanks to RR.

I think FCB deserves as much of the credit for as I do, if not more.  I put the arguments against it but he exposes the amount of total shite you have to believe in and ridiculous mental gymnastics you have to perform if you want to be a religious person.

Before you existed and God asked you if you want to exist and you said yes.

I hope I get the privilege of meeting RR during the Day of Judgement.

Would be pretty funny could you imagine the dialogue? Let's pretend that this maniac exists:
"RR you will burn in hell for being a non-believer"
"Ahly I am the true God of the 2700 out there you will burn in hell for wasting your life in believing the wrong one".

Theo Filippo wrote:Would be pretty funny could you imagine the dialogue? Let's pretend that this maniac exists:
"RR you will burn in hell for being a non-believer"
"Ahly I am the true God of the 2700 out there you will burn in hell for wasting your life in believing the wrong one".

At the very least, I did things during this life that benefited me in some way. Both RR and I lived the lives that we wanted to live.

FCB wrote:

Theo Filippo wrote:Would be pretty funny could you imagine the dialogue? Let's pretend that this maniac exists:
"RR you will burn in hell for being a non-believer"
"Ahly I am the true God of the 2700 out there you will burn in hell for wasting your life in believing the wrong one".

At the very least, I did things during this life that benefited me in some way. Both RR and I lived the lives that we wanted to live.

In what way?

FCB wrote:I hope I get the privilege of meeting RR during the Day of Judgement.

If I believed in Islam and worshipped Allah I would hope with all my heart that I was wrong because of the horrendous torture that would be inflicted on so many completely innocent people for all of eternity simply because they guessed wrong.

Theo Filippo wrote:

FCB wrote:

At the very least, I did things during this life that benefited me in some way. Both RR and I lived the lives that we wanted to live.

In what way?

Religion makes people happy and have self control among other things. I'm not saying those things can't be achieved without religion, but religion is helpful to a lot of people.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

FCB wrote:I hope I get the privilege of meeting RR during the Day of Judgement.

If I believed in Islam and worshipped Allah I would hope with all my heart that I was wrong because of the horrendous torture that would be inflicted on so many completely innocent people for all of eternity simply because they guessed wrong.

It's not as simple as guessing wrong. It's more like seeing some evidence and ignoring it.

FCB wrote:

Theo Filippo wrote:
In what way?

Religion makes people happy and have self control among other things. I'm not saying those things can't be achieved without religion, but religion is helpful to a lot of people.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

If I believed in Islam and worshipped Allah I would hope with all my heart that I was wrong because of the horrendous torture that would be inflicted on so many completely innocent people for all of eternity simply because they guessed wrong.

It's not as simple as guessing wrong. It's more like seeing some evidence and ignoring it.

It's not ignoring it, it's finding it unsatisfactory. I proclaimed on here a long time ago that I was God, you opted to ignore the evidence of my proclamation, but it would be unbelievably cruel if I turned out to be telling the truth and then cast you to Hell on the day of judgement.

FCB wrote:

Theo Filippo wrote:
In what way?

Religion makes people happy and have self control among other things. I'm not saying those things can't be achieved without religion, but religion is helpful to a lot of people.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

If I believed in Islam and worshipped Allah I would hope with all my heart that I was wrong because of the horrendous torture that would be inflicted on so many completely innocent people for all of eternity simply because they guessed wrong.

It's not as simple as guessing wrong. It's more like seeing some evidence and ignoring it.

Is that accurate though? Happiness for a start is hard to prove but an example from this forum - while religious Sean openly admitted to being depressed and attempted suicide but seems to be living a "happier" life judging from the most recent posts of his after becoming atheist. Also self-control is debatable too, for example - I wouldn't consider someone who picks and chooses from a Religion to have self-control.  

There's "evidence" of numerous Gods though, from my standpoint I see it as more logical to not believe in a God rather than believe that one of the possible thousands of Gods exist.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

FCB wrote:

Religion makes people happy and have self control among other things. I'm not saying those things can't be achieved without religion, but religion is helpful to a lot of people.



It's not as simple as guessing wrong. It's more like seeing some evidence and ignoring it.

It's not ignoring it, it's finding it unsatisfactory.  I proclaimed on here a long time ago that I was God, you opted to ignore the evidence of my proclamation, but it would be unbelievably cruel if I turned out to be telling the truth and then cast you to Hell on the day of judgement.

You didn't provide any reasonable evidence to you being God. The real God has. You took that evidence and didn't accept it. That's your choice, not mine or anyone else's. You are responsible for that decision, not anyone else. The fact that you push people to your ways doesn't help your case in front of God either.

FCB wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

It's not ignoring it, it's finding it unsatisfactory.  I proclaimed on here a long time ago that I was God, you opted to ignore the evidence of my proclamation, but it would be unbelievably cruel if I turned out to be telling the truth and then cast you to Hell on the day of judgement.

You didn't provide any reasonable evidence to you being God. The real God has. You took that evidence and didn't accept it. That's your choice, not mine or anyone else's. You are responsible for that decision, not anyone else. The fact that you push people to your ways doesn't help your case in front of God either.

I am responsible for the decision, yes, I reject the evidence because I don't think it's reasonable proof, much as you do the same for my godhood. If I'm wrong, however, the being who designed the system is responsible for the outcome of that.

Giving me a warning about it doesn't make it justifiable either - if I leave a note on someone's car saying I'm going to torture them to death if they don't jump on the spot 3 times they might make the choice not to do it - which is their choice - but I'm still responsible for my actions if I flay them.

You're equating yourself to God though. You have no right, as a human, to torture someone to death. God has every right to do what he pleases with his creations, especially if he has warned them numerous times.

FCB wrote:You're equating yourself to God though. You have no right, as a human, to torture someone to death. God has every right to do what he pleases with his creations, especially if he has warned them numerous times.

What if it's my son? I created him.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

FCB wrote:You're equating yourself to God though. You have no right, as a human, to torture someone to death. God has every right to do what he pleases with his creations, especially if he has warned them numerous times.

What if it's my son?  I created him.

You didn't really "create" him though. All you did was shoot your load inside a woman.

FCB wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

What if it's my son?  I created him.

You didn't really "create" him though. All you did was shoot your load inside a woman.

Do you know how babies are made? Is there some alternative explanation you believe in?

Theo Filippo wrote:Would you say RR helped you become an atheist? 

If so you're the second person to come out and say that he's now an atheist thanks to RR.

Not really, but I do remember getting absolutely roasted by him in a religious debate on Skype a very long time ago. 

Randomly seen this on YouTube today, is this the same guy on this forum?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:I think FCB deserves as much of the credit for as I do, if not more.  I put the arguments against it but he exposes the amount of total shite you have to believe in and ridiculous mental gymnastics you have to perform if you want to be a religious person.

Before you existed and God asked you if you want to exist and you said yes.

Not sure if you're just saying this to take the piss, but this was the actual reason I first started questioning my beliefs. "God said this in the quran, but what he REALLY meant was this" is something I was too used to hearing by muslims to cover up the contradictions or barbaric messages in the quran.

FCB wrote:

Theo Filippo wrote:
In what way?

Religion makes people happy and have self control among other things. I'm not saying those things can't be achieved without religion, but religion is helpful to a lot of people

There's no reliable evidence that shows religion makes people happier and have self control. In fact the only evidence out there seems to suggest the opposite. Religion is a massive burden on people and religious responsibilities such as praying 5 times a day puts a lot of pressure on people, especially when they think they'll go to hell if they don't fulfill their religious duties.

FCB wrote:You didn't provide any reasonable evidence to you being God. The real God has. You took that evidence and didn't accept it. That's your choice, not mine or anyone else's. You are responsible for that decision, not anyone else. The fact that you push people to your ways doesn't help your case in front of God either.

Just curious but what would you consider to be "reasonable evidence" that this real god exists?

Grenade wrote:

Theo Filippo wrote:Would you say RR helped you become an atheist? 

If so you're the second person to come out and say that he's now an atheist thanks to RR.

Not really, but I do remember getting absolutely roasted by him in a religious debate on Skype a very long time ago. 

Randomly seen this on YouTube today, is this the same guy on this forum?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:I think FCB deserves as much of the credit for as I do, if not more.  I put the arguments against it but he exposes the amount of total shite you have to believe in and ridiculous mental gymnastics you have to perform if you want to be a religious person.

Before you existed and God asked you if you want to exist and you said yes.

Not sure if you're just saying this to take the piss, but this was the actual reason I first started questioning my beliefs. "God said this in the quran, but what he REALLY meant was this" is something I was too used to hearing by muslims to cover up the contradictions or barbaric messages in the quran.

FCB wrote:

Religion makes people happy and have self control among other things. I'm not saying those things can't be achieved without religion, but religion is helpful to a lot of people

There's no reliable evidence that shows religion makes people happier and have self control. In fact the only evidence out there seems to suggest the opposite. Religion is a massive burden on people and religious responsibilities such as praying 5 times a day puts a lot of pressure on people, especially when they think they'll go to hell if they don't fulfill their religious duties.

FCB wrote:You didn't provide any reasonable evidence to you being God. The real God has. You took that evidence and didn't accept it. That's your choice, not mine or anyone else's. You are responsible for that decision, not anyone else. The fact that you push people to your ways doesn't help your case in front of God either.

Just curious but what would you consider to be "reasonable evidence" that this real god exists?

Very much doubt it. There are a lot of unoriginal internet people who name themselves after that film character.

Not saying it to take it piss at all - although antagonising that terrorist sympathiser is always fun - it's the same reason I gave up on Christianity in my teens. Seeing people making piss poor arguments in favour of a certain position and get hammered is a great way of dissuading people from supporting that position.

I've asked him about that evidence before, he said there is poetry in the Qur'an which is so beautiful it could not have been written by a human but must have been written by an omnipotent being.

I can't believe you thumbed up that YouTube comment. It's like you're 14 and just discovered what being edgy is.

I wonder how religious or educated about Islam Grenade was before he left it.

SBSP wrote:I can't believe you thumbed up that YouTube comment. It's like you're 14 and just discovered what being edgy is.

Aren't you the moron who had to ask other people what you personally believe?

FCB wrote:I wonder how religious or educated about Islam Grenade was before he left it.

Educated enough to realise it is all total shit, evidently.

SBSP wrote:I can't believe you thumbed up that YouTube comment. It's like you're 14 and just discovered what being edgy is.

I don't understand your point? The thumbs up feature is there to bump up comments you like. I liked this comment as it initiated an interesting string of comments discussing several things. What's wrong with that?

FCB wrote:I wonder how religious or educated about Islam Grenade was before he left it.

I was about as religious as your average Muslim, read weekly friday prayers, kept fasts and read ramadan prayers etc.

However I'd consider myself a lot more knowledgeable about Islam than your average Muslim. The more I learned, the less I believed.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:
Very much doubt it.  There are a lot of unoriginal internet people who name themselves after that film character.

Not saying it to take it piss at all - although antagonising that terrorist sympathiser is always fun - it's the same reason I gave up on Christianity in my teens.  Seeing people making piss poor arguments in favour of a certain position and get hammered is a great way of dissuading people from supporting that position.

I've asked him about that evidence before, he said there is poetry in the Qur'an which is so beautiful it could not have been written by a human but must have been written by an omnipotent being.  

You were once a Christian? What?

As for FCB's solid + undeniable evidence proving gods existence...
That is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard in my entire life.

Grenade wrote:

SBSP wrote:I can't believe you thumbed up that YouTube comment. It's like you're 14 and just discovered what being edgy is.

I don't understand your point? The thumbs up feature is there to bump up comments you like. I liked this comment as it initiated an interesting string of comments discussing several things. What's wrong with that?

"I left Islam because I have a brain." Real quality discussion, I'm sure. The kind the YouTube comments section is famous for.

SBSP wrote:

Grenade wrote:
I don't understand your point? The thumbs up feature is there to bump up comments you like. I liked this comment as it initiated an interesting string of comments discussing several things. What's wrong with that?

"I left Islam because I have a brain." Real quality discussion, I'm sure. The kind the YouTube comments section is famous for.

What's wrong with that statement? It's very true in a sense. Religious people don't think with their own brains, yourself being a perfect example of this having to ask other people what you personally believe.

I don't see why it's a problem to ask someone more knowledgeable for their reasoning and defer to their opinion if they're better at explaining something. If you asked me about the political history of the United States, I'd be able to tell you enough to give you a broad overview, but you'd be better off asking someone educated if you wanted something more specific and possibly subjective. If I only skimmed a few chapters from a couple of books and looked at some timelines, then declaring myself an expert on the subject just makes me a delusional cunt who's full of himself and probably needs to grow up.

As for the statement itself, it's childish and cringeworthy as fuck. Exactly what I'd expect from a YouTube comment on religion.

Grenade wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:
Very much doubt it.  There are a lot of unoriginal internet people who name themselves after that film character.

Not saying it to take it piss at all - although antagonising that terrorist sympathiser is always fun - it's the same reason I gave up on Christianity in my teens.  Seeing people making piss poor arguments in favour of a certain position and get hammered is a great way of dissuading people from supporting that position.

I've asked him about that evidence before, he said there is poetry in the Qur'an which is so beautiful it could not have been written by a human but must have been written by an omnipotent being.  

You were once a Christian? What?

As for FCB's solid + undeniable evidence proving gods existence...
That is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard in my entire life.

Yes, I was brought up Catholic and was quite into it for a while.

It's up there for me, but I think the most stupid thing he ever said (or I ever heard) was that the allies should have taken land from Germany immediately after World War II and established a Jewish state there right next to the people who'd just tried to do a genocide on them.

SBSP wrote:I don't see why it's a problem to ask someone more knowledgeable for their reasoning and defer to their opinion if they're better at explaining something. If you asked me about the political history of the United States, I'd be able to tell you enough to give you a broad overview, but you'd be better off asking someone educated if you wanted something more specific and possibly subjective. If I only skimmed a few chapters from a couple of books and looked at some timelines, then declaring myself an expert on the subject just makes me a delusional cunt who's full of himself and probably needs to grow up.

As for the statement itself, it's childish and cringeworthy as fuck. Exactly what I'd expect from a YouTube comment on religion.

You want to know what's cringeworthy as fuck? Adults believing the following

• A magical beings created the world and wrote books about it thousands of years ago
  
• We have to believe what's written in those books today or the magical being will read our minds and find out then torture us forever after we're dead
  
• ...but if you do believe in him he will take you to paradise forever
  
• That a man can split the moon in two but nobody else in the world notices
  
• That meteors exist to keep Satans from getting to space to listen in on God talking with his friends
  
• That we got asked if we wanted to exist/have free will before we existed/had free will and used our free will (which we didn't have yet) to say Yes
  
• That people can fly to heaven on horses with wings.
  
• That the omnipotent being who created this world with such an immense amount of suffering among animals and will send most of the population to suffer forever if they don't worship him is a good being worthy of that worship rather than being a twisted egomaniacal monster
  

Tell me honestly - do you believe in all that total fucking crap or do you think the Qur'an is fallible?