Should civilians be allowed guns ?

Bit of a odd thread but its been bothering me for a while.
Just wanted to see what you all think.

I see it as a human right to be able to protect yourself and your family at any cost. With the current day blackmarket its just too easy for criminals to get a hold of a gun in the uk its rediculous. They were banned here in the first place to stop criminals from owning them but that sure as shit didn't work.

Most of the current gun crime in England is armed robbery. Most of the deaths caused by guns are against innocent unarmed civilians who did not have the power to defend themselves.

It seems logical to start giving our right to own firearms slowly what do you guys thinks?

Inbe4 somebody blames Ashley Cole.

No. Guns = Even more problems.

That would cause even more problems, my next door neighbour could suddenly turn into a nutter and go on a mass murdering spree. Be even easier for depressive junkies to go on murdering sprees.

Yes.

No, I don't want any guns near me.

Supposedly the black market is flooded with guns. Even if they dont legalise them for civillians they should atleast allow all cops to carry a gun like in the US.
The goverment keeps cutting down funds for police services so more and more cops are being lost and more and more guns are being braght in which will spell disaster.

If they even did legalise guns for us it would require a license and a good record etc. They will certainly start off slowely.
A junkie wanting a gun would still have to buy it illegally plus its not exactly hard to get a gun illegally. Shit there was a guy in Dewsbury who got caught selling a shotgun to a 17 year old for £50. Shits pretty fucked up.

I walk out of my house knowing it is 1/1000 that someone around the area has a gun that they are going to use. I dont want that probability to lower.

Fuck me! I can't believe people still think this is a good idea.

Making guns more widely available means that it is much easier for criminals to get hold of them, indeed it's imperative for most criminals that they do have one. Put yourself in the mind of a criminal (go here if it helps), and imagine you are going out to beat someone up or mug someone, what do you take with you today? A baseball bat or maybe a knife, because you know the other person is going to be less heavily armed than you, and the worst that can happen is you get the shit kicked out of you. The police might hit you with a truncheon or temporarily blind you with CS gas, but you'll be alright.

Now think about the same scenario again but with the knowledge that everyone has a gun, including the police. You go out to beat someone up, they'll have a gun, you need a gun too, it's easy to get one, just head down to the supermarket. You go out to mug someone on the street, they might shoot you, you need to shoot them first. You go out to rob someone's house, they'll definitely have a gun in their house, as you say, they use it to protect their property and family, you'd better bring my gun too just in case. Gang violence which usually involves fists and bats, suddenly involve bullets and guns, and god help the police.

Making guns legal just makes them more widely available, and that means more people will get killed. I don't want to live in a society where not owning a gun makes me vulnerable.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Fuck me! I can't believe people still think this is a good idea.

Making guns more widely available means that it is much easier for criminals to get hold of them, indeed it's imperative for most criminals that they do have one. Put yourself in the mind of a criminal (go here if it helps), and imagine you are going out to beat someone up or mug someone, what do you take with you today? A baseball bat or maybe a knife, because you know the other person is going to be less heavily armed than you, and the worst that can happen is you get the shit kicked out of you. The police might hit you with a truncheon or temporarily blind you with CS gas, but you'll be alright.

Now think about the same scenario again but with the knowledge that everyone has a gun, including the police. You go out to beat someone up, they'll have a gun, you need a gun too, it's easy to get one, just head down to the supermarket. You go out to mug someone on the street, they might shoot you, you need to shoot them first. You go out to rob someone's house, they'll definitely have a gun in their house, as you say, they use it to protect their property and family, you'd better bring my gun too just in case. Gang violence which usually involves fists and bats, suddenly involve bullets and guns, and god help the police.

Making guns legal just makes them more widely available, and that means more people will get killed. I don't want to live in a society where not owning a gun makes me vulnerable.

funny guy


Anyway its a good point but as the markets flooded with guns they are dead cheap. A baddie could probably get a gun for the same price of a metal bat! In a criminal mind they will go for the most threatening weapon.

Criminals like that have cops by the balls as they cant do shit against an armed suspect. If you dont think guns should be legalised to a certain extent how do you solve the problem of chavs taking over the country ?

Not at all. Agree with RR 100%.

The link's a bit much though.

RR

Simple answer is no.

Will only cause more trouble.

grenade187 wrote:Anyway its a good point but as the markets flooded with guns they are dead cheap. A baddie could probably get a gun for the same price of a metal bat! In a criminal mind they will go for the most threatening weapon.

Criminals like that have cops by the balls as they cant do shit against an armed suspect. If you dont think guns should be legalised to a certain extent how do you solve the problem of chavs taking over the country ?

I think you're exaggerating the size of the problem, if you go out and try to buy a gun on this black market, I doubt you'll get very far, and if you do it'll cost you a lot of money. What's more if you actually threaten someone with it, or use it on someone, it'll be a major event if the police find out about it, there'll be a manhunt round the area and you'll either have to ditch or get caught, and if you do get caught you'll be absolutely fucking nailed for it.

Criminals like that don't have cops by the balls at all, if an armed man pulls a gun on a police officer then again, it is a major event. Yeah, he'll have the upper hand for a minute, but as soon as he leaves the area the police officer is going to be on his radio saying 'That guy has a gun, he went north' and there'll be a squad of armed police coming out to catch kill him. You will get some maniacs like Derrick Bird and Raoul Moat who go out and just shoot police, but they're not going to last very long, and you get those in countries where there are armed cops as well, 11 Police officers were shot in the North Hollywood shootout of 1997.

For general criminal use, as things stand in this country there's very little that a baseball bat or flick-knife isn't just as good as a gun for, but if you change the law, make guns widely available you're upping the ante massively and there'll be a lot more people killed.

As for the chav problem, I don't know how you solve it, but shooting them is not the way.

Guns aint as easily accessible as you're making out. Out of all crimes committed, what is the percentage of them being gun related?

This video offers a great debate on the matter. I highly recommend it...

War, huuuhh, yeahhh, what is it good for?

absolutely nothinGG

It's a sticky topic, I am personally against widespread gun use but then again I can be as suspicious of an over-armed and all-powerful police force.

Roloman4 wrote:It's a sticky topic, I am personally against widespread gun use but then again I can be as suspicious of an over-armed and all-powerful police force.

Why? An all powerful police force can take everything you have, but so can 5 guys with shotguns and a removal fan.

Roloman4 wrote:It's a sticky topic, I am personally against widespread gun use but then again I can be as suspicious of an over-armed and all-powerful police force.

So you want to be able to shoot a police officer? Those armed police couldn't stop millions of Egyptians from bringing down the government. Not a single one of those protesters were armed with guns.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:It's a sticky topic, I am personally against widespread gun use but then again I can be as suspicious of an over-armed and all-powerful police force.

Why? An all powerful police force can take everything you have, but so can 5 guys with shotguns and a removal fan.

At least those five guys are just five dumb guys, not the other alternative.

ahlycotc wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:It's a sticky topic, I am personally against widespread gun use but then again I can be as suspicious of an over-armed and all-powerful police force.

So you want to be able to shoot a police officer? Those armed police couldn't stop millions of Egyptians from bringing down the government. Not a single one of those protesters were armed with guns.

Are you trying to tell me that Egypt's police force was as organized and well-trained as police-forces normally are in the Western World?


You two guys are taking my comment as if I was one of the NRA or something. Jeez, as I said, I am personally against loose gun laws.

Roloman4 wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:It's a sticky topic, I am personally against widespread gun use but then again I can be as suspicious of an over-armed and all-powerful police force.

So you want to be able to shoot a police officer? Those armed police couldn't stop millions of Egyptians from bringing down the government. Not a single one of those protesters were armed with guns.

Are you trying to tell me that Egypt's police force was as organized and well-trained as police-forces normally are in the Western World?

No, but what difference does it make in this situation? Egyptians don't have guns to fight with. Where Egyptian police lacked, the situation and culture of Egypt made up for it. It was almost impossible to bring down the Egyptian regime. Didn't blacks get their freedom in segregated America?

Anyways, your explanation is not really related to the discussion. You are talking about a rare hypothetical. This debate is mainly dealing with arming citizens to protect themselves against other citizens. If the army or police is killing its own people, that's a special situation. Take Libya for example.

what's the underlying problem beneath all of this you ask?

Money.

Get rid of it so I don't have to work

yeah my old man has a permit to carry.

its cool

lets go thunder

No.

I wouldn't trust myself with a gun...

No, causes more problems.

I've never even seen a real gun in the UK......and I'm glad.

No, but lets be honest it wouldn't matter if they were 'allowed' guns or not. Criminals would still get their hands on them if they needed them, it would just be like all the other stuff which isn't allowed.

Would rather the time and dedication was spent in increasing police patrolling the streets/public transports tbh.

yes
In Switzerland everyone who went to the army can keep his pistol, rifle and knife to protect himself and his family