Could AF have led any of the other top 4 to a title?

This is a serious (yet completely hypothetical) question.

This question was brought up briefly in this weeks Football Weekly, when I first heard the question I though "pppppppft" but after a few moments of thinking it over I see why not, for those of you who are a bit thick it's regarding whether Fergie could lead Arsenal, City or Chelsea to the title, presumably under the same circumstances (most importantly, injuries) as the clubs have endured during this season.

I can't see why not, let me explain my reasoning.

Most fans/pundits can agree that while United are probably the most cohesive unit in England, a break down of player v. player comparisons show that their rivals outclass them in certain positions (theoretically at least). That being said a quick breakdown of United's handicaps and strengths compared to the other top four show no real advantage held by United (no tangible ones anyway).

In terms of squad number/depth: Manchester City >, = United
In terms of injuries suffered: Arsenal (van Persie, Verm, Fabregas, Song, etc.) = United (Rooney, Rio, Fletcher, Valencia, etc.)
In terms of average age: Chelsea =, < United

In retrospect, comparing the squads of the top four and looking back at the performances of the teams, it seems pretty clear to me that all these sides had a decent shot at the title at some point or another, but fell apart due to managerial reasons (along with other factors) Arsenal doing their yearly collapse, Chelsea collapsing in the winter (maybe due to Wilkins? idk) and City just "not being ready" for lack of a better phrase, if AF were the manager of these clubs, and endured the same situations, could he bring a title to these respective clubs?

EDIT: Could a mod edit the third option to "fuck hypothetical questions" thx babes XO

Yes.

Depends the situation, if you mean Fergie took over the clubs at the start of the season then no, because Ferguson has had this squad a good 3-4 years now, (give or take), he's implanted his ethos on them over that time, never mind the 20 odd years he's implanted his way at United

Too much to digest.

Radford11 wrote:Too much to digest.

No one here likes threads where you have to think a little.

I gave my 2 cents Dena....

No, it's absolute horse-shit. People talk about the resiliency of the squad and such as being the reason why we won the League, maybe so, and they credit that attitude to Sir Alex Ferguson, which again, may be fair enough. The problem is, what people don't realise is that the reason Man Utd's squad has the attitude it does isn't some magic powers of Ferguson that he started psychologically improving the players this season, it's that Ferguson only signs players with that particular mental toughness.

Ferguson's main strength is building strong teams, if you put him in charge of a team that isn't built effectively, moreover a team that he hasn't built, he won't be nearly as successful.

Oh you meant just this season Dena? I thought you meant being with that team like he has been with United.

I wouldnt exatly say Nani, Berbatov, even Ronaldo had great mental toughness

SBSP wrote:Oh you meant just this season Dena? I thought you meant being with that team like he has been with United.

Yeah, this season.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:No, it's absolute horse-shit. People talk about the resiliency of the squad and such as being the reason why we won the League, maybe so, and they credit that attitude to Sir Alex Ferguson, which again, may be fair enough. The problem is, what people don't realise is that the reason Man Utd's squad has the attitude it does isn't some magic powers of Ferguson that he started psychologically improving the players this season, it's that Ferguson only signs players with that particular mental toughness.

Ferguson's main strength is building strong teams, if you put him in charge of a team that isn't built effectively, moreover a team that he hasn't built, he won't be nearly as successful.

How does one scout for mental toughness though? This isn't football manager where you can look up the secret stats of a player, I'm inclined to believe that Ferguson has install some level of resiliency and er... "fight" in his team.

Sean wrote:I wouldnt exatly say Nani, Berbatov, even Ronaldo had great mental toughness

I see Ronaldo as one of the most mentally tough players in the game, he is the ultimate professional. I can see why you would say Berbatov isn't, but he's hardly been an unqualified success at United, Nani I don't see any indication either way.

dena wrote:

SBSP wrote:Oh you meant just this season Dena? I thought you meant being with that team like he has been with United.

Yeah, this season.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:No, it's absolute horse-shit. People talk about the resiliency of the squad and such as being the reason why we won the League, maybe so, and they credit that attitude to Sir Alex Ferguson, which again, may be fair enough. The problem is, what people don't realise is that the reason Man Utd's squad has the attitude it does isn't some magic powers of Ferguson that he started psychologically improving the players this season, it's that Ferguson only signs players with that particular mental toughness.

Ferguson's main strength is building strong teams, if you put him in charge of a team that isn't built effectively, moreover a team that he hasn't built, he won't be nearly as successful.

How does one scout for mental toughness though? This isn't football manager where you can look up the secret stats of a player, I'm inclined to believe that Ferguson has install some level of resiliency and er... "fight" in his team.

Or maybe he just talks to the players before signing them. He hasn't changed the makeup of his players' brains over the last 10 months, he's not some kind of mind altering magician.

I think he would win it with either Chelsea, Arsenal, or Man City. The deviation between squad quality isn't that big, it really comes down to squad depth.

Chelsea match up pretty well Man Utd from back to front, but their depth would hurt them,, in spite of SAF. City not so much, and their depth on the surface isn't good. '

Now that I think about it, if SAF were coaching Arsenal they would probably destroy the Premier League. All they need is some mental fortitude added to make that extra step. That SAF provides in loads, not to mention his tactical nous.

Reason I say Ronaldo, is look at any game where things arnt going his way (El Classico's for example) his body language shows his complete frustration and its like if its not going like he wants he just gives up.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Sean wrote:I wouldnt exatly say Nani, Berbatov, even Ronaldo had great mental toughness

I see Ronaldo as one of the most mentally tough players in the game, he is the ultimate professional. I can see why you would say Berbatov isn't, but he's hardly been an unqualified success at United, Nani I don't see any indication either way.

dena wrote:

SBSP wrote:Oh you meant just this season Dena? I thought you meant being with that team like he has been with United.

Yeah, this season.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:No, it's absolute horse-shit. People talk about the resiliency of the squad and such as being the reason why we won the League, maybe so, and they credit that attitude to Sir Alex Ferguson, which again, may be fair enough. The problem is, what people don't realise is that the reason Man Utd's squad has the attitude it does isn't some magic powers of Ferguson that he started psychologically improving the players this season, it's that Ferguson only signs players with that particular mental toughness.

Ferguson's main strength is building strong teams, if you put him in charge of a team that isn't built effectively, moreover a team that he hasn't built, he won't be nearly as successful.

How does one scout for mental toughness though? This isn't football manager where you can look up the secret stats of a player, I'm inclined to believe that Ferguson has install some level of resiliency and er... "fight" in his team.

Or maybe he just talks to the players before signing them. He hasn't changed the makeup of his players' brains over the last 10 months, he's not some kind of mind altering magician.

Once again I have to ask, how can he determine that with just an interview (or two, or three, whatever) I highly doubt that AF met with Javier Hernandez last year and said "Right lad, we're tied 1-1 with WBA away, only 15 minutes left, our away form has been shite, and we need max points to stay in the hunt, I put you on. WHAT DO YOU DO, WHAT DO YOU DO????!!" and he says "I score goal" and that convinces Ferguson that he has what it takes mentally to be clutch.

SAF to you.

Yes.

All you have to do is look at Man U's team. In Arsenal's case, I can think of a few players (Fabregas,Song and maybe van Persie) that would pretty much walk into their first team.
Look at Chelsea, Essien, maybe Ashley Cole.
Man City, Yaya Toure, Tevez and possibly De Jong.

It's crazy to think that Man U can do so well with what looks like a weak midfield compared to the rest of the top 4.

It's like what you said in your OP. As a unit, Man U are the strongest team in England, they grind out the results, and the majority of that is down to Alex Ferguson.

I think it would take sometime to get used to his system, but I don't see why he would fail.

Dena

I think a player's mentality would be evident if you've been scouting them for a while.

Rei wrote:Dena

I think a player's mentality would be evident if you've been scouting them for a while.

This is true I guess.

For the record, I havent voted yet because I'm still debating it, hypothetical are sometimes pointless to think over, but I think this one is interesting. SAF has shown over the past million years that he has a wide range of attributes that make him a great manager, I think those attributes fill needs that the various clubs in the top 4 needed to win a title. City's main critics claim they are two defensive, AF is known as an attacking manager, Chelsea are old and need a smart manager to manage the squad (always thought Carlo did a nice job with his bengay Milan team, despite the fact they won nothing for a bit) Arsneal need a resilience, etc.

Just wonderin'

He's a nasty bastard. But by God is he good, when you turn players like John O'Shea and Wes Brown into half-decentish players, that's when you know you've got the touch. He turns pebbles into diamonds. And to answer the question, yes, he could.

Brown and O'Shea are fantastically gifted players, Brown at his 2008 best would walk into any team in the Premier League today, and O'Shea would be sure of a spot in pretty much any team except Chelsea. I suppose you're right in one way though, a lot of people don't understand that because they're not as clued up as Ferguson is, another manager could have let them go.

With the right number of years, I think he could have lead the top 4 each to a title. Arsenal just need a good manager.

Hard to say really. I think if you give him a few years then definately yes. Also depends if at say Man City, he could spend the money himself rather than being stuck with the players they have.

I think a better question is "Would anyone else in modern football have done as well if not better than Fergie?"

dena wrote:

Radford11 wrote:Too much to digest.

No one here likes threads where you have to think a little.

I was just too tired to think last night.

If he'd been at Chelsea this season he would probably have been fired half way through the season.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:If he'd been at Chelsea this season he would probably have been fired half way through the season.

Because that's exactly what happened to Ancelotti this season, isn't it.

luke. wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:If he'd been at Chelsea this season he would probably have been fired half way through the season.

Because that's exactly what happened to Ancelotti this season, isn't it.

Ferguson would never stand for an owner interfering in football matters, hiring and firing staff against his will. Ancelotti doesn't have the balls to stand up to an owner like Ferguson, Mourinho or even Benitez would, he made a career out of being Berlusconi's bitch.

Yes, if he was in charge of city then they'd have walked the league title.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

luke. wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:If he'd been at Chelsea this season he would probably have been fired half way through the season.

Because that's exactly what happened to Ancelotti this season, isn't it.

Ferguson would never stand for an owner interfering in football matters, hiring and firing staff against his will. Ancelotti doesn't have the balls to stand up to an owner like Ferguson, Mourinho or even Benitez would, he made a career out of being Berlusconi's bitch.

Oh, I thought you meant just based on on the pitch results, but I do agree in that aspect. Abramovich takes no shit, and Ancelotti doesn't give shit. The way he handled Wilkins sacking was awful.. he just let it happen without saying anything.

All top four teams bar Chelsea, because they're an oppressive instiutution that don't respect the input of top Managers or their staff.