France Bans Burka

I came across this video of a debate on the issue on CNN. I highly recommend watching...


^ the title of the video is a bit misleading. France is not banning headscarves, but rather full-face covers (i.e. burka).

By the way, this isn't really an Islamic issue. It seems like there are more Muslims that support this ban than oppose it after quickly skimming through several news articles. Under Islam, women are permitted to show their hands and face in public. The full-face covering (aka burka or niqab) is not required in Islam. It's not even recommended or mentioned in anyway in the Quran or Islamic teachings. It's mostly a cultural thing.

POINTS OF OPPOSITION
- A woman (or anyone) should have freedom of expression, especially in a nation like France.

POINTS OF SUPPORT
- A niqab can cause a security concern (identification purposes).

The burka wearing woman in the video pointed out a point that I didn't know before. She said she takes it off when in banks, DMV, court, airport, etc. So that somewhat tackles the security issue. But then my question is, why wear it at all then if you are going to take it off in a majority of public places? Another question of mine is what is your purpose of wearing a burka? She stated some points as to why, but I think those are fully covered by wearing a normal hijab as required in Islam. Covering your face and hands isn't going to make a difference. I'm not criticizing her stance to wear a burqa, but I don't quite understand the point of wearing one.

But I think this issue is totally political rather than religious. Here are some questions I have...

1) Have there been several incidents of burka wearing women in France being unidentifiable in instances of crime or otherwise?
2) Is a burka ban unconstitutional?
3) Stats say only 2,000 Muslim women in France wear a burka. Is it worth implementing a law for such a small percentage of the population?

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By the way, I'm not either opposing or supporting the ban by France. I think it's a highly complicated political issue. I would like to hear your opinions though on the matter.

Lux, I await your presence for round 59924.

Good. I was all for banning the burka.

Well done France for standing up to this. Its a security and a social issue. I hope more countries follow this idea.

God those are hideous.

Hate them. Maybe England could do this.

LFCJordan wrote:Well done France for standing up to this. Its a security and a social issue. I hope more countries follow this idea.

I've heard this several times, but I'm not quite sure what that means. How is it a social issue?

While i don't support the idea of wearing a burka but this is surely violates human rights

NZG wrote:While i don't support the idea of wearing a burka but this is surely violates human rights

what if they don't want to wear them but are forced to?

I thought they were ninjas.

Good. You come over to a country, you should be expected to live by their culture and the way they live.

Dan wrote:Good. You come over to a country, you should be expected to live by their culture and the way they live.

what about a multi-cultural society?

should I live by Moari Culture?

I support this, I wish England had the balls to do shit like this.

How can they ban an item of clothing? That's ridiculous.

El_indian wrote:

NZG wrote:While i don't support the idea of wearing a burka but this is surely violates human rights

what if they don't want to wear them but are forced to?

if that violates human rights than surely being forced not to wear must be against humans right as well

I don't know tbh. People who wear buras look intimidating and are masking their face, but it's a part of their religion, why should they be banned?

I don't know.

El_indian wrote:

Dan wrote:Good. You come over to a country, you should be expected to live by their culture and the way they live.

what about a multi-cultural society?

should I live by Moari Culture?

No, because your culture has evolved away from that.

NZG wrote:

El_indian wrote:

NZG wrote:While i don't support the idea of wearing a burka but this is surely violates human rights

what if they don't want to wear them but are forced to?

if that violates human rights than surely being forced not to wear must be against humans right as well

fair enough, they are intimidating though..just show your fucking face

I'm torn on this. I don't like the full face veils, I don't like what they stand for and I feel uneasy walking past people wearing those things. Saying that, me not liking it isn't sufficient reason to ban something.

I don't see how if you go in to a petrol station you have to take your helmet off but women don't need to take that off. Well done france.

It's a security issue.....for a start.

Safety/our culture > religious views/"laws" etc.

When it comes down to it no one wants to see people in Burkhas, and it's not for petit reasons either.

"But it's against human rights" you could say that not being allowed to walk around naked is too. Human rights is a joke, in some cases people aren't given enough....but it seems to be the case that in the Western world governments are digging themselves into their own graves by allowing people such unworthy rights, and giving them massive compensation if/when they file a lawsuit!

Fuck off about " It's against human rights" to all the people I've heard on radio shows condemning the proposed ban. The patriarchal ideologies behind the actual reason it's worn are more oppressive than banning it.
We have to conform to Middle Eastern laws if we travel there, so they should conform to ours and we should reiterate France's legislation in the UK and ban the Burka.

B0dunrin wrote:Fuck off about " It's against human rights" to all the people I've heard on radio shows condemning the proposed ban. The patriarchal ideologies behind the actual reason it's worn are more oppressive than banning it.
We have to conform to Middle Eastern laws if we travel there, so they should conform to ours and we should reiterate France's legislation in the UK and ban the Burka.

Yeah I don't agree with the oppression to women, but they should be allowed to wear what they want to wear. No one is forcing them to wear it, but it's something they obviously believe in. If they didn't they wouldn't do it.

As for the bolded point, shall we do everything like the middle east then? They stone people over there so why don't we start doing it here? It's about what we believe in the Western world, what happens over there is of no relation to this.

apparently they wear them so they aren't treated as sexual objects - so to say it's oppressive is debatable.

if men didn't think with their dicks than we wouldn't have this problem, but thats never gonna happen.

Keep them on I say. Doubt there's any fit ones under that costume. She make it a law that ugly girls have to wear them, no matter what race they are.

I honestly think, in this day and age, that's it's just not necessary to wear those.

I would discourage the wearing of them, but wouldn't ban it altogether. I fully support the fact that the ideologies behind wearing it are wrong but I'd rather a more long term, gradual movement away from it rather than an outright ban, as it will surely upset people. As you've said, many Muslim women don't even wear a burka now.

El_indian wrote:

NZG wrote:While i don't support the idea of wearing a burka but this is surely violates human rights

what if they don't want to wear them but are forced to?

No law forces them to wear it. If their husbands or community do, that's a totally different issue. The women have the right to sue anyone that abuses them in wearing one.

Dan wrote:Good. You come over to a country, you should be expected to live by their culture and the way they live.

That's so outdated. We live in a multicultural and globalized world. There will be several instances of clash of civilizations. Should European countries start banning people from eating with chopsticks, wearing those Indian dresses that women wear, have giant lip piercings that African tribes have??

Pip wrote:I don't know tbh. People who wear buras look intimidating and are masking their face, but it's a part of their religion, why should they be banned?

I don't know.

It's not really part of religion though. There is no mention of full-face coverings in Islam. It's a cultural issue.

B0dunrin wrote:Fuck off about " It's against human rights" to all the people I've heard on radio shows condemning the proposed ban. The patriarchal ideologies behind the actual reason it's worn are more oppressive than banning it.
We have to conform to Middle Eastern laws if we travel there, so they should conform to ours and we should reiterate France's legislation in the UK and ban the Burka.

Sorry, but I just shake my head everytime someone uses that stupid argument. This isnt Saudi Arabia, this is France. Just because one country follows a certain path, doesnt mean a democratic and free France should too it's against France's ideology to ban freedom of expression.

I voted 'yes' although I'm not completely against them. Some people will argue and say, 'What's the difference between a Muslim woman wearing a Burka walking down the street, and what's the difference between a Chav with his hood up and a balaclava and an unnecessary amount of scarves, walking down the street?' A lot of people will end up saying 'They both freak the shit out of me'. etc. etc.
'The Chav will probably stab me and run off with my phone and wallet. The lady with the Burka will probably blow me up.'

In all honesty, I would be more, well, I wouldn't say scared, but certainly intimidated by the Chav. And, to be honest, I wouldn't worry at all about the lady in the Burka. I don't often see women in Burkas, but when I do, there is normally a small group of them, or one or two of them with their kids, and shopping bags; also, the majority of the time when I see a woman with a Burka by he self, she would normally seem to rush past me and other people as if she were scared.

I agree that they should uncover their face in shops and at airports etc. etc. But if they want to wear them outside of those places, then that's ok by me. I have a bigger problem with the Chavs.

These days people wear religious items as fashion. I see Muslims wearing Armani Veils and atheists wearing crosses.