Black managers need extra help.

Black British managers need extra help - Gordon Taylor
Paul Ince
Paul Ince is one of only two Black managers in England's top leagues

Black British managerial hopefuls should be interviewed for vacant posts as of right to tackle discrimination in football, according to Gordon Taylor.

The Professional Footballers' Association chief said he would back the introduction of a new regulation modelled on the NFL's 'Rooney Rule'.

Under this rule, teams must interview minority candidates for senior posts.

Paul Ince of Notts County and Chris Powell of Charlton are the only black bosses currently at league clubs.

Taylor told BBC 5 Live: "I find it astonishing that we can import the likes of Jean Tigana and Ruud Gullit and there's no problem, but our own lads who have grown up in this country have not been given a chance to be fairly represented."

Taylor said the 'Rooney Rule' had "without a shadow of a doubt made a difference" since it was introduced in the NFL in 2003.

"We have got to learn from other sports and other countries, and we saw how many top quality Black gridiron players there were and how few Black coaches," he said.

"But they came in with that rule and it's made a difference, and now it's become assimilated into the culture of the NFL."

Taylor said, though, that he would only support the introduction of a similar rule in English football if he "felt encouraged by all my black players or black players who are qualified coaches and feel they have not been given proper opportunities".

THE 'ROONEY RULE'
NFL
Named after Pittsburgh Steelers chairman Dan Rooney
Teams must interview at least one minority candidate for top positions
In 2003, the Detroit Lions were fined $200,000 for breaking the rule

"If we get more players like Chris Powell who are prepared to go for it and not expect a top job, that's what we need to try and encourage," he added.

Powell, the former England left-back, was named as manager of Charlton in January, after a spell as coach and, for one game, caretaker manager at Leicester.

Ince, the former Manchester United and England midfielder, has had mixed fortunes during a longer managerial career.

He learnt his trade at Manfield before leading Milton Keynes Dons to a Football League Trophy final victory in March 2008 and to the League Two title a month later.

Ince then became the first black British manager in England's top division when he joined Blackburn Rovers in June 2008 - though he did not hold a UEFA pro licence.

However, he was was sacked after six months in charge and three wins in 17 games, and returned to MK Dons in July 2009. He subsequently resigned in April 2010 and joined Notts County six months later.

Taylor said Ince should have been fully qualified when he took the Blackburn post, but added: "I spoke to Richard Scudamore [the chief executive of the FA Premier League] and said 'we've got to give him a chance, we have promised that we'll fast-track him and get him qualified'.

"I said 'we don't want to make a scene about it but we would do if we needed to'.

"But he said, 'Gordon, I agree, we will do all we can'."

Ince said it was "really hard to comprehend" that would-be managers could lose out on jobs because of their colour.

But it would also be hard for him, as an experienced manager, to raise this as an issue if he was unsuccessful.

"Are people going to listen to that or just think that's sour grapes because he didn't get the job," he said.

Mal wrote:It's so stupid. I read on an application once "Here we are all about equality especially towards women and the disabled"


If they want to be equal then they shouldn't single themselves out because of their skin colour.

Fonseca wrote:It doesn't say choose does it, it just says that a black candidate must be interviewed which could be turned down so the choosing domestically is more fair and not limited to de facto segregation

Fonseca wrote:What's the definition of senior positions? I see that as just general managers no? If they're good enough they will be selected, there's no limitations to how many interviewees are required. Brighton aren't gonna sign Mancini are they? that's where they have the opportunity to start in a lower league.

It's an outdated system but it doesn't change the fact it's still de facto related

dena wrote:Without knowing too much about the black manager situation in England, I would have to assume that (just from the law of averages) that some black managers are turned down when they are perfectly capable for a position (mainly in the lower leagues); but any sort of affirmative action is frowned upon, most of the time anyway. The NFL has the Rooney rule in which each team looking for a new coach must interview at least one black candidate, and while it had some opposition at the beginning, black coaches have proven themselves equally good -- and bad, as white coaches. Will never happen in England though.

Mal wrote:

dena wrote:Without knowing too much about the black manager situation in England, I would have to assume that (just from the law of averages) that some black managers are turned down when they are perfectly capable for a position (mainly in the lower leagues); but any sort of affirmative action is frowned upon, most of the time anyway. The NFL has the Rooney rule in which each team looking for a new coach must interview at least one black candidate, and while it had some opposition at the beginning, black coaches have proven themselves equally good -- and bad, as white coaches. Will never happen in England though.

See, in my opinion that's singling out a black man as different when they're not. We're all equals so everyone should be treated the same way.

Mal wrote:

dena wrote:Without knowing too much about the black manager situation in England, I would have to assume that (just from the law of averages) that some black managers are turned down when they are perfectly capable for a position (mainly in the lower leagues); but any sort of affirmative action is frowned upon, most of the time anyway. The NFL has the Rooney rule in which each team looking for a new coach must interview at least one black candidate, and while it had some opposition at the beginning, black coaches have proven themselves equally good -- and bad, as white coaches. Will never happen in England though.

See, in my opinion that's singling out a black man as different when they're not. We're all equals so everyone should be treated the same way.

If a Black manager is good enough for the job, I'm sure he'll get it. There are enough black players in league football for me to believe that there is no inherit racism in English football when it comes to club appointments/signings.

dena wrote:

Mal wrote:

dena wrote:Without knowing too much about the black manager situation in England, I would have to assume that (just from the law of averages) that some black managers are turned down when they are perfectly capable for a position (mainly in the lower leagues); but any sort of affirmative action is frowned upon, most of the time anyway. The NFL has the Rooney rule in which each team looking for a new coach must interview at least one black candidate, and while it had some opposition at the beginning, black coaches have proven themselves equally good -- and bad, as white coaches. Will never happen in England though.

See, in my opinion that's singling out a black man as different when they're not. We're all equals so everyone should be treated the same way.

In a way it's sort of a counterweight to the fact that whoever is charged with finding a new manager would not look towards a black candidate, this sort of forces them to do it, not many people will agree with it, I don't agree with it in some ways either, and I think that the NFL has proven that the rule does not need to be enforced anymore because like I said black managers have proven to be equal to whites, but I think it's hard to deny that in countries like hours black people have been denied opprotunities because of their skin color, this provides an opportunity, not telling Brighton & Hove to go out and hire a black manager just for the fuck of it, but it sort of gives em a push.

If a Black manager is good enough for the job, I'm sure he'll get it. There are enough black players in league football for me to believe that there is no inherit racism in English football when it comes to club appointments/signings.

How many managers are in the English and Scottish (let's put Welsh in their too) football leagues? I'm sure a couple of dozen black managers have the right badges and experience as assistants or whatever, I think the ratio is heavily disproportioned.

Cornholio wrote:The help is still a privilege.

Don't look at the stats. Look at individuals, now.

2 players just finished their playing career. 1 white and 1 black.

The white man has wanted to be a manager since he started playing. It's his real ambition. He doesn't have experience, but he has the passion and just needs a chance.

The black man has just started thinking what is he going to do with himself now. Managing interests him so he'll see what it's like.

A position comes up. Normally none of these two would be considered because they don't have experience. But BAM, the black man is straight in there with an interview and is making strides in his career. While the white man hasn't heard back and has become disillusioned with the game, hit the booze quite hard, and ending up dying a sad, unfulfilled man.

How is this fair?

dena wrote:

Cornholio wrote:The help is still a privilege.

Don't look at the stats. Look at individuals, now.

2 players just finished their playing career. 1 white and 1 black.

The white man has wanted to be a manager since he started playing. It's his real ambition. He doesn't have experience, but he has the passion and just needs a chance.

The black man has just started thinking what is he going to do with himself now. Managing interests him so he'll see what it's like.

A position comes up. Normally none of these two would be considered because they don't have experience. But BAM, the black man is straight in there with an interview and is making strides in his career. While the white man hasn't heard back and has become disillusioned with the game, hit the booze quite hard, and ending up dying a sad, unfulfilled man.

How is this fair?

That's not fair, but if you a competent individual in charge of finding a manager for your football club, you will interview BOTH candidates. No one is saying that because you interview a black candidate you can't interview a white one, there is no limit to how many people you can interview. So why would this situation even occur.

At a glance, I looked over at Chris Hughton's bio really quickly, and see that he served as an assistant and youth coach for Spurs for a time, seven different managers were hired while he was a youth coach, he even served as caretaker for a period of time, I wonder if he was ever looked at as a full time option for Spurs... and when Newcastle needed a new manager, they didn't go to Hughton either, they went to a man with no experience in Alan Sherear, finding out the back room politics behind these situations is impossible, but it makes you wonder.