Let's look at the facts here

vel wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:And subjective analysis through in game performances is never going to persuade one set of fans that one is better than the other.

Only because Divenaldo fanboys are literally retarded (see: RR, SBSP, Glen Miller, Ahly)

vel wrote:I don't even think it's close. Messi is easily the better footballer and the greater player. I fuck around most of the time but this is a stance that I hold firmly. This is a year in which the sentiment of "Messi's decline" and "Ronaldo's dominance" has been propogated all throughout mainstream media. And if you just look at the raw numbers, you see this:

Cristiano: 56 matches, 58 goals, 20 assists (1.39 goals/assists per match)
Messi: 62 matches, 55 goals, 25 assists (1.29 goals/assists per match)

Take away penaldos and it's equal efficiency. Remember guys, this is supposed to be Ronaldo 'at his peak' and Messi 'on the decline'.

The difference is that unlike Cristiano, you have Messi always involving himself in the facets that never get covered by goals and assists. Messi doesn’t rely on penalties for 75% of his hat-tricks, the quality of goals from Messi is just unbelievable.

Cristiano is playing for the best Madrid side ever and he’s still not outperforming Messi.  All you have to do is look at the context of each player’s respective situations and when you factor that in, it’s obvious who is the better footballer. Hell, just look at the past decade or so and it's clear who the better footballer is. Keep in mind that Messi is what, 3 years younger than Cristiano?

The only things Cristiano does better than Messi is probably heading and penaldos. Messi is a more efficient scorer, a better dribbler, a better playmaker, stronger, better defensively, and better in build-up. It really blows my mind how some people arrive at these conclusions when you can simply watch them play. People really take a once-in-a-lifetime footballer like Messi for granted.

vel wrote:Just look at the World Cup. It’s hilarious. Without playing in ideal conditions, Cristiano is absolutely terrible. The sad thing is that people claim that his performances for Portugal aren’t a fair representation of his abilities because he plays with shit teams. Cristiano is one of the worst captains in the history of Portugal. Here’s a funny stat:



Cristiano’s teammates literally create chance after chance for him yet no matter what, Portugal will always be looked at as a one-man team. You know, media propaganda.



Messi winning the Golden Ball is supposedly a scandal and Cristiano’s “effort” is reduced to him suffering from tendonitis. Apparently this injury could have ended Cristiano’s career. This injury mysteriously disappeared as soon as he re-joined Real Madrid and scored 25 goals in his first 10 games. As expected.


The thing is, I know Ahly thinks that Messi is far better than Cristiano. He’s just too big of a fuckboy to admit it.

vel wrote:That's not my logic, rather the logic of people who think Cristiano is better than Messi. A simple eye-test makes it clear who provides more value to a team and who is the better footballer. Whereas Cristiano is best off the ball and making runs to receive passes, it's Messi who is on the ball playing the passes. It's obvious which one is the tougher task.

I'm not exactly sure where you got those yearly stats from, I'm quite certain that you have the 2013 statistics wrong for Messi. Messi played 46 games in 2013, scoring 45 goals, assisting 16 goals (1.33 goals/assists per game). Cristiano played 60 games in 2013, scoring 69 goals, assisting 15 goals (1.40 goal/assists per game). Here is a list of their assists:

Spoiler:

Assuming the rest of the numbers you put are accurate, it's clear that the goals and assists will never show the true disparity between the two of them. Messi took a shit on Cristiano in 2011, but it's Cristiano who is more efficient. The only people you will ever see who would say Cristiano was better in 2011 are his most ardent fanboys. I don't even think Cristiano finished in the top 3 for the Ballon d'Or in 2010, he was nowhere close to Messi.

In 2013, Messi was playing with injuries and he wasn't fit from before the PSG game I think. Yet Barça played him because they were absolutely awful without him. You will never see Cristiano doing something similar to what Messi did against PSG in 2013. You will never see Cristiano carry Real Madrid to a league title like Leo did in 2012-13.

Instead you'll see him score a hat-trick against Sweden in the World Cup playoffs after being awful in the World Cup qualifying. And then you'll see the media hype Portugal as a one-man team. And then you'll see the first voting extension in the history of the Ballon d'Or. And then you'll see Ribéry, the clear favourite, fall behind Cristiano, the guy who cried when Real Madrid didn't put up an elaborate campaign for him to win the Ballon d'Or.

It's unbelievable how good of a playmaker Messi is. The 'assists' and 'created chances' stats will never do him justice. From 2012-13 you had something like this:



From this season alone you have something like this:

http://gfycat.com/AptPowerfulHeron
http://gfycat.com/EducatedWarmheartedIslandcanary
http://gfycat.com/ThirstyPepperyCaracal
http://gfycat.com/RawSnarlingFawn
http://gfycat.com/NegativeBlushingBabirusa
http://gfycat.com/LikelyHandyFerret
http://gfycat.com/NastyMiserableIberianemeraldlizard
http://gfycat.com/WindingFlawlessAnhinga
http://gfycat.com/PotableCoarseFritillarybutterfly
http://gfycat.com/HealthyGrayIndianspinyloach
http://gfycat.com/SmallTartDunnart
http://gfycat.com/PresentFaintGorilla
http://gfycat.com/MessyDizzyIrukandjijellyfish
http://gfycat.com/OldHalfAztecant
http://gfycat.com/CorruptPerfectKittiwake
http://gfycat.com/AmusingCandidGoa
http://gfycat.com/CalculatingRapidGodwit
http://gfycat.com/ContentExhaustedCrane
http://gfycat.com/PartialEmbellishedDeinonychus
http://gfycat.com/ScaredLameGerenuk
http://gfycat.com/ShowyAgonizingHogget
http://gfycat.com/LinearLastIndianringneckparakeet
http://gfycat.com/ValuableFineGrasshopper
http://gfycat.com/ColossalImpishAngora
http://gfycat.com/AlarmingWeightyAurochs

Messi is probably the best player this sport has ever seen. I never got to see the likes of Pelé, Cruijff and Maradona play live so I am completely ignorant about how good they actually were on a match-by-match basis. But with Messi, he is literally the Wayne Gretzky of this sport. Leo will probably retire as the best scorer and playmaker ever.

vel wrote:Just did a count from Transfermarkt.


Champions League 2012-13:

1. Milan
   
2. Milan
   
3. PSG
   
4. PSG
   
5. Bayern
   

La Liga 2012-13


Copa del Rey 2012-13

[list=21]
[*]Málaga
[*]Málaga
[*]Mehdrid
[*]Mehdrid
[/list]

Champions League 2013-14


La Liga 2013-14


Supercopa 2013


International Friendlies 2013

[list=41]
[*]Guatemala
[*]Sweden
[/list]

World Cup Qualifying 2013


I used the MessivsRonaldo.net for the matches played. Maybe we're both wrong. 

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

vel wrote:
Only because Divenaldo fanboys are literally retarded (see: RR, SBSP, Glen Miller, Ahly)

What are you on about?  I think Messi is a fair bit better than Ronaldo, I just recognise that he wouldn't have been without the human growth hormone injections he received.

FCB wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

What are you on about?  I think Messi is a fair bit better than Ronaldo, I just recognise that he wouldn't have been without the human growth hormone injections he received.

Do you believe that by receiving the medication, Messi should not be allowed to play professional?

SBSP wrote:RR appears to believe lots of things purely to be controversial.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

FCB wrote:

Do you believe that by receiving the medication, Messi should not be allowed to play professional?

I think it's an unfair advantage.