Manchester United FC Official Thread

That scoreline

that was the greatest match ever

ViVaRooney wrote:because he is level on points with a team that is the best in the league and have far better individuals then ours

the only criticism you should be directing at fergie is the lack of signings. which may or may not have to do with fergie, either way i personally dont need us to sign loads of players, until we are in danger of going out the top 4 i dont see anything to complain about. Fergie has done nothing to deserve a sacking.. not even close

you are just echoing everything that was said in 2005 when we were going through another transition, people just dont have the patience. Ronaldo leaving forced us into this transition too, if he was still here we wouldnt need anyone

Really? The only reason we would potentially not need anyone is because the man would score so many goals that the averageness of our midfield and defensive backup would be overshadowed by the sheer brilliance of the man. Of course that would just disguise the problem, not actually solve it. Had we had a player like Ronaldo, who by some miracle is not too far away from matching one of the best players of all time, we would of course be a much better side, but we'd still have midfield issues.

SuperManUtd wrote:

ViVaRooney wrote:because he is level on points with a team that is the best in the league and have far better individuals then ours

the only criticism you should be directing at fergie is the lack of signings. which may or may not have to do with fergie, either way i personally dont need us to sign loads of players, until we are in danger of going out the top 4 i dont see anything to complain about. Fergie has done nothing to deserve a sacking.. not even close

you are just echoing everything that was said in 2005 when we were going through another transition, people just dont have the patience. Ronaldo leaving forced us into this transition too, if he was still here we wouldnt need anyone

If Ronaldo was still here, we would still need a new midfield and it wouldn't change the fact that fergie is doing what Busby did back in the day which is holding onto past it players thinking they can still play at the highest level still, which got united relegated.

if we still had ronaldo we would not be desperate for a CM believe me

so you think we are heading for relegation?

SuperManUtd wrote:If Fergie was still sharp he wouldn't of fucked up against City or Wigan, two massive games that prove the point hes not as sharp as he once was.
hes losing it just lile Giggs and Park.

there is only so much fergie can do, its up to the players to perform. against City out tactic was spot on, we were comfortable until a fuck up by smalling for the corner

i bet you wanted us to go 4-4-2 and attack them?? well i hope you would have enjoyed another thrashing.

Looking back, the formation was the right one, it's just that we didn't have the players capable and worthy this season of playing there. Park has had a terrible season

ViVaRooney wrote:

SuperManUtd wrote:If Fergie was still sharp he wouldn't of fucked up against City or Wigan, two massive games that prove the point hes not as sharp as he once was.
hes losing it just lile Giggs and Park.

there is only so much fergie can do, its up to the players to perform. against City out tactic was spot on, we were comfortable until a fuck up by smalling for the corner

i bet you wanted us to go 4-4-2 and attack them?? well i hope you would have enjoyed another thrashing.

They most certainly were not, we were getting overrun in the middle and on the sides. Park and Giggs couldn't keep up, Evra lost his marking all the time, we conceded corner after corner and let Tevez and Agüero run somewhat free in the middle. We were lucky not to concede earlier.

Kuled wrote:Looking back, the formation was the right one, it's just
that we didn't have the players capable and worthy this season of
playing there. Park has had a terrible season

Players are sort of part of the whole deal when you go a formation. If you don't have the players for the formation then you do not play it, it's really not rocket science.

Laurencio wrote:

ViVaRooney wrote:

there is only so much fergie can do, its up to the players to perform. against City out tactic was spot on, we were comfortable until a fuck up by smalling for the corner

i bet you wanted us to go 4-4-2 and attack them?? well i hope you would have enjoyed another thrashing.

They most certainly were not, we were getting overrun in the middle and on the sides. Park and Giggs couldn't keep up, Evra lost his marking all the time, we conceded corner after corner and let Tevez and Agüero run somewhat free in the middle. We were lucky not to concede earlier.

Kuled wrote:Looking back, the formation was the right one, it's just
that we didn't have the players capable and worthy this season of
playing there. Park has had a terrible season

Players are sort of part of the whole deal when you go a formation. If you don't have the players for the formation then you do not play it, it's really not rocket science.

i highly disagree, sure first half nasri got some space but aguero and tevez were non existent whole half

i would not say we were lucky not to concede before that.. de gea didnt make a single save first half

ViVaRooney wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

They most certainly were not, we were getting overrun in the middle and on the sides. Park and Giggs couldn't keep up, Evra lost his marking all the time, we conceded corner after corner and let Tevez and Agüero run somewhat free in the middle. We were lucky not to concede earlier.



Players are sort of part of the whole deal when you go a formation. If you don't have the players for the formation then you do not play it, it's really not rocket science.

i highly disagree, sure first half nasri got some space but aguero and tevez were non existent whole half

i would not say we were lucky not to concede before that.. de gea didnt make a single save first half

Well I disagree with that, but we can agree to disagree on that part.

No because we were lucky. City made a few mistakes in their build up and were cautious of our counter attacking, they were clever about it. We let them have too much possession and let them get close too often. We had nothing to counter them with, we couldn't keep the ball and we were letting them have too many opportunities to score, both in play and especially from set pieces. It was only a matter of time until they made a good play or we made a mistake.

The midfield was barely there to begin with, when we did have possession only Scholes really did anything with it and it wasn't much he could do with Nani clearly missing match fitness, Park playing poorly, Carrick who out of necessity had to sit back in order to attempt to stop City from running all over us and Giggs not doing his job in the middle.

By all means please tell me why we didn't shore up the middle with both Jones and Carrick, had Rafael on the right with Valencia tracking back and Welbeck playing either in front of Rooney or to the side of him for a proper counter attack. Because I can not fathom how one of the best managers in the world could come up with that midfield and wingers, especially if he was playing for a draw, it just does not make sense. If he is playing for the draw why include Giggs, Park who has been poor all season, and Nani who is not exactly know for tracking back, and on top of that isn't match fit?

Howard Webb has been chosen as the FA Premier League's appointed official to referee the pivotal game between Newcastle and Manchester City.
Our final weapon.

Kuled wrote:Howard Webb has been chosen as the FA Premier League's appointed official to referee the pivotal game between Newcastle and Manchester City.
Our final weapon.

Congrats

menalawyerguy wrote:I think he's still sharp because the club is still consistently competing for league titles in a meaningful fashion. They are almost guaranteed to finish top 2 every year. He makes it look easy but it's not at all easy, especially in the Premier League. The petulance of Real Madrid's board is a detriment to them. They do still attract world class managers, obviously. But they do not enjoy the stability that Man United has. Neither do any of those other teams you mentioned. Real Madrid is finally going to win the league this year for the first time in 4 years. They're in a league of 2, honestly. There are only two teams that legitimately contend for that title. Coming in second is a total failure, in my opinion. But coming in second in the Premier League is quite difficult. Over the long term, Man United has far more legitimate domestic rivals than Real Madrid. Each individual season usually comes down to just Man United and one other team, but the identity of that other team is constantly changing. Some years it's Chelsea; some years it's Arsenal; some years it's Liverpool; this year it's City. Real Madrid's only true domestic competitor is Barcelona. And yet, they don't win domestic titles as frequently as Man United. Having one great manager for a long time has yielded stability in a hyper-competitive league. Real Madrid's board is petulant. Mourinho is winning the double this year but they will soon forget about it. They'll run him out eventually. But if they would yield more to his expertise, give him more breathing room and fostered an environment that encouraged Mourinho to stick around and build (leave aside Mourinho's own natural tendency to never settle; that's a separate issue), I think they would achieve more success over the long term.

Alright, so it's not because of any particular good decisions he's made in the last 18 months, but because of his Premier League record. Which decisions worthy of a great manager do you think he's made in the last 18 months? What has he done in the last 18 months that offsets his neglect of the midfield and his tactical disasters against Barcelona and Manchester City, let alone show that he is still this great manager.

Also, let's talk about his Champions League record - is 2 European Cups in well over 20 years, most of them at one of the world's biggest clubs, good enough for a great manager? For comparison, TSO has 2 in 9 years.

ViVaRooney wrote:because he is level on points with a team that is the best in the league and have far better individuals then ours

the only criticism you should be directing at fergie is the lack of signings. which may or may not have to do with fergie, either way i personally dont need us to sign loads of players, until we are in danger of going out the top 4 i dont see anything to complain about. Fergie has done nothing to deserve a sacking.. not even close

you are just echoing everything that was said in 2005 when we were going through another transition, people just dont have the patience. Ronaldo leaving forced us into this transition too, if he was still here we wouldnt need anyone

If he had bought effectively with his £80m in 2009 then we could have continued to be successful, but no, he sat there are complained that there was no value in the market in the same summer than Sneijder and Robben went for a combined total of about £30m (that's the same as Young + Bebe + Hernandez). He does that and our "transition" looks like this


Not to mention his bizarre assertion in the same summer that Carlos Tevez simply wasn't worth £25.5m, despite United matching that price and offering Tevez a contract. The signs should have been seen in 2009.

And please, don't blame this on the Glazers, the No. 1 backer of the Glazers' ownership of Manchester United is Sir Alexander Ferguson.

Getting this side as close as he has to the title is an achievement, especially considering they've been without their captain and arguably best player for most of the season. Talent wise, this side is totally inferior to City. Maybe that's SAF's fault, maybe it's not. We don't know what goes on in the board room. But from a tactical and motivational point of view, he's still got it. There's probably only one guy who could have gotten more out of this team, but he already has a job in Madrid.

menalawyerguy wrote:Getting this side as close as he has to the title is an achievement, especially considering they've been without their captain and arguably best player for most of the season. Talent wise, this side is totally inferior to City. Maybe that's SAF's fault, maybe it's not. We don't know what goes on in the board room. But from a tactical and motivational point of view, he's still got it. There's probably only one guy who could have gotten more out of this team, but he already has a job in Madrid.

Not all the time really. Motivational wise he's probably the best in the business, but tactically he's made some very strange decisions and choices.

On what basis do you say he's still got it tactically? Mancini completely did him on Monday, Guardiola didn't even need any tactics against him in Rome or London because he was so predictable and stupid, going straight ahead and trying to outscore them. He was even incapable of dealing with Wigan's 3-4-3 effectively.

Motivationally, again, where is the motivation in games like Everton, why is he allowing the team to become complacent if he is such a psychological mastermind? At the moment it seems like Roberto Mancini has more of an influence on the team than he does, coming out every week "Man Utd have already won" and the players believe him.

Talking about the strength of City's squad is misleading, in order to win the Premier League, all Manchester United had to do was defeat Wigan away and defeat Everton and Swansea at home to guarantee winning the Premier League, regardless of what Manchester City did. If a draw could be obtained at Manchester City then the task would become even easier, and yet somehow United lost against Wigan, drew against Everton, and lost against Manchester City. How can this happen if Ferguson is such a great motivator and tactician?

Sir Alex's £100m spree
Sir Alex Ferguson will launch a £100 million summer spending bonanza in a bid to prevent Manchester United being replaced by neighbours City as the dominant force in the Premier League. United could finish the season empty handed for only the fifth time in 23 years following Monday’s derby defeat, which handed the title initiative to City. Even if there is another twist in the race with United taking advantage of a City slip-up, Ferguson knows his squad need strengthening – especially after their failure to come through an easy Champions League group and early exits from the Europa League, FA Cup and Carling Cup. He is lining up bids for Eden Hazard, of Lille, and Tottenham’s Luka Modric to add some stardust and creativity to United’s midfield department. And he is also eyeing Athletic Bilbao’s Fernando Llorente, who scored in both Europa League legs against United, to boost his attack. Two full-backs are also being considered because Rafael Da Silva has proved unreliable and Patrice Evra, now 31, needs competition and cover. Valencia left-back Jordi Alba is on the radar. And there will be departures as well – led by Dimitar Berbatov and Michael Owen. Anderson and Federico Macheda are also likely to be moved on, while Fabio Da Silva will be loaned out to Benfica for the season. Park Ji-Sung will also be sweating on his future after his reputation as a big-game player took another battering in the derby.

The Daily Star also talks about a spending spree with other names thrown into the ring including Wesley Sneijder and former Red Gerard Pique, who is currently with Barcelona.

The Times have carried an interview with Paul Pogba's agent with Mino Raiola insisting a final decision has not been made on the Frenchman's future but it will be finalised during the next week or so. The Daily Star reckons he is joining Juventus.

The Daily Mail and other newspapers believe Danny Welbeck will miss the final two games of the season but should be fit for the European Championship finals after injuring his foot in the Manchester derby.



Some of the players we're linked with is fantastic.

None of those things will happen, because in Ferguson's head Fletcher will be like a new signing, and he's proven he's world class by kicking the shit out of Fabregas, Anderson will fulfil his potential (like he has done the last 3 years), Cleverley will be world class, because he proved that against Sandro, Livermore, Miquel and Rosicky, and Evra has the experience to turn his bad form around. Giggs will be kept because he is a legend, so will Scholes, and why would we need to sign a central midfielder when we have these

Carrick (Best player of this season)
Fletcher (World Class)
Scholes (in the top 4 midfielders in world)
Giggs
Cleverley (potential world class)
Pogba (potential world class)
Anderson (best young player in Europe)

Would you gays have Dembele in your midfield?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:None of those things will happen, because in Ferguson's head Fletcher will be like a new signing, and he's proven he's world class by kicking the shit out of Fabregas, Anderson will fulfil his potential (like he has done the last 3 years), Cleverley will be world class, because he proved that against Sandro, Livermore, Miquel and Rosicky, and Evra has the experience to turn his bad form around. Giggs will be kept because he is a legend, so will Scholes, and why would we need to sign a central midfielder when we have these

Carrick (Best player of this season)
Fletcher (World Class)
Scholes (in the top 4 midfielders in world)
Giggs
Cleverley (potential world class)
Pogba (potential world class)
Anderson (best young player in Europe)

Let's be honest, Fergie doesn't think Fletcher's world class, he won't think Anderson's one of the best young players in Europe, nor does he think Scholes is up there with Xavi, Iniesta etc.. (and whoever else you think are the best midfielders in the world).

If Fergie doesn't realise that at times since Scholes returned our only avaliable senior cente mids were him and Carrick, he's worse than even you think he is.

Danny wrote:Sir Alex's £100m spree
Sir Alex Ferguson will launch a £100 million summer spending bonanza in a bid to prevent Manchester United being replaced by neighbours City as the dominant force in the Premier League. United could finish the season empty handed for only the fifth time in 23 years following Monday’s derby defeat, which handed the title initiative to City. Even if there is another twist in the race with United taking advantage of a City slip-up, Ferguson knows his squad need strengthening – especially after their failure to come through an easy Champions League group and early exits from the Europa League, FA Cup and Carling Cup. He is lining up bids for Eden Hazard, of Lille, and Tottenham’s Luka Modric to add some stardust and creativity to United’s midfield department. And he is also eyeing Athletic Bilbao’s Fernando Llorente, who scored in both Europa League legs against United, to boost his attack. Two full-backs are also being considered because Rafael Da Silva has proved unreliable and Patrice Evra, now 31, needs competition and cover. Valencia left-back Jordi Alba is on the radar. And there will be departures as well – led by Dimitar Berbatov and Michael Owen. Anderson and Federico Macheda are also likely to be moved on, while Fabio Da Silva will be loaned out to Benfica for the season. Park Ji-Sung will also be sweating on his future after his reputation as a big-game player took another battering in the derby.

The Daily Star also talks about a spending spree with other names thrown into the ring including Wesley Sneijder and former Red Gerard Pique, who is currently with Barcelona.

The Times have carried an interview with Paul Pogba's agent with Mino Raiola insisting a final decision has not been made on the Frenchman's future but it will be finalised during the next week or so. The Daily Star reckons he is joining Juventus.

The Daily Mail and other newspapers believe Danny Welbeck will miss the final two games of the season but should be fit for the European Championship finals after injuring his foot in the Manchester derby.



Some of the players we're linked with is fantastic.

And highly unlikely. Could you imagine 5 marque signings in one season? That doesn't sounds like us.

Laurencio wrote:
And highly unlikely. Could you imagine 5 marque signings in one season? That doesn't sounds like us.

Hence what I said...

And on Dembele, I hardly watch Fulham, so I don't really know.

Danny wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:None of those things will happen, because in Ferguson's head Fletcher will be like a new signing, and he's proven he's world class by kicking the shit out of Fabregas, Anderson will fulfil his potential (like he has done the last 3 years), Cleverley will be world class, because he proved that against Sandro, Livermore, Miquel and Rosicky, and Evra has the experience to turn his bad form around. Giggs will be kept because he is a legend, so will Scholes, and why would we need to sign a central midfielder when we have these

Carrick (Best player of this season)
Fletcher (World Class)
Scholes (in the top 4 midfielders in world)
Giggs
Cleverley (potential world class)
Pogba (potential world class)
Anderson (best young player in Europe)

Let's be honest, Fergie doesn't think Fletcher's world class, he won't think Anderson's one of the best young players in Europe, nor does he think Scholes is up there with Xavi, Iniesta etc.. (and whoever else you think are the best midfielders in the world).

If Fergie doesn't realise that at times since Scholes returned our only avaliable senior cente mids were him and Carrick, he's worse than even you think he is.

Ferguson on Anderson (2007)

"Anderson has been absolutely superb. The boy has definitely got something special. There was an urgency to get him once we'd scouted him, even though he'd broken his leg and had been out for four or five months.

"The reports we were getting were saying that he was the best young player in the world. At the time, I was saying, 'For God's sake, let's calm down a bit here.' I knew he had real potential, but I didn't want to put labels on him like that. But we've been delighted with him and he has proven himself to be a true central midfield player.

And this is what he said in September of last year

"He has been tremendous," Ferguson told Inside United.

"He's had a couple of long-term injuries which haven't helped him, but in the last year or so, he's steered clear of injury.

"That means he's training every day so his fitness levels are much better. He is maturing so you can see the consistency in his game."

As for Fletcher, I think Ferguson genuinely believes this guy is an absolutely fantastic player. He attributed 2009's CL Final defeat to his absence.

In the same interview he also said that only Xavi and Iniesta are comparable to Scholes.

If Ferguson was a great as perceived wisdom says he is he would have realised he could have ended up in a situation like this in the midfield and done something about it. If Carrick had sustained a serious injury our season would have been completely fucked.

Yay, lets dig out quotes from 2007 which mean nothing now.

And let's be honest, we probably did miss Fletcher in Rome. I'd rather have an in form Fletcher (which he was, that was his best season probably) in that midfield than Anderson or Giggs.

Not that he's any good now of course.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:On what basis do you say he's still got it tactically? Mancini completely did him on Monday, Guardiola didn't even need any tactics against him in Rome or London because he was so predictable and stupid, going straight ahead and trying to outscore them. He was even incapable of dealing with Wigan's 3-4-3 effectively.

No amount of tactics were going to beat Barca last year in a one off on neutral turf. Yes, Mancini got the better of him. So what? Mancini has gotten the better of a lot of managers lately. Nobody gets it 100% right 100% of the time. Even in his peak, SAF got beat once in a while. I don't think this is evidence that SAF is no longer fit from a tactical point of view. You've picked a couple instances where he got his tactics wrong. What about all the other times where he got them right? He continues to school Arsene Wenger on a regular basis, for example.

Motivationally, again, where is the motivation in games like Everton, why is he allowing the team to become complacent if he is such a psychological mastermind? At the moment it seems like Roberto Mancini has more of an influence on the team than he does, coming out every week "Man Utd have already won" and the players believe him.

He wouldn't have been able to get this squad, as deficient as it is, in the position they are in if he wasn't a solid motivator. No losses to Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool this year. That tells me he can still motivate. Lost points to teams like Wigan and Everton don't necessary suggest lack of motivation. It's more suggestive of under-estimating them and/or looking past them to bigger games. An error, yes. But not an uncommon error in top flight football. Even Mourinho has had it happen to him at times.

Talking about the strength of City's squad is misleading, in order to win the Premier League, all Manchester United had to do was defeat Wigan away and defeat Everton and Swansea at home to guarantee winning the Premier League, regardless of what Manchester City did. If a draw could be obtained at Manchester City then the task would become even easier, and yet somehow United lost against Wigan, drew against Everton, and lost against Manchester City. How can this happen if Ferguson is such a great motivator and tactician?

Yea, that's all they had to do. Does he get any credit for getting them in that position in the first place though? They screwed up against Wigan, Everton and Swansea and twice smoked by City. What about the other 31 games that have been played to date? The reason why they were in a position to wrap the title up by not dropping points to inferior sides like Wigan is because of the job he did managing the rest of the season. Again, titles are won and lost over the course of 38 games, not three or four. If United had lost a few games to teams like Arsenal or Chelsea or Tottenham but took care of business against Wigan, Everton and Swansea, they still wouldn't have won the title. But you wouldn't be talking about how they or SAF choked.

No matter what we do he'd have found a way to discuss Sir Alex.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

menalawyerguy wrote:I think he's still sharp because the club is still consistently competing for league titles in a meaningful fashion. They are almost guaranteed to finish top 2 every year. He makes it look easy but it's not at all easy, especially in the Premier League. The petulance of Real Madrid's board is a detriment to them. They do still attract world class managers, obviously. But they do not enjoy the stability that Man United has. Neither do any of those other teams you mentioned. Real Madrid is finally going to win the league this year for the first time in 4 years. They're in a league of 2, honestly. There are only two teams that legitimately contend for that title. Coming in second is a total failure, in my opinion. But coming in second in the Premier League is quite difficult. Over the long term, Man United has far more legitimate domestic rivals than Real Madrid. Each individual season usually comes down to just Man United and one other team, but the identity of that other team is constantly changing. Some years it's Chelsea; some years it's Arsenal; some years it's Liverpool; this year it's City. Real Madrid's only true domestic competitor is Barcelona. And yet, they don't win domestic titles as frequently as Man United. Having one great manager for a long time has yielded stability in a hyper-competitive league. Real Madrid's board is petulant. Mourinho is winning the double this year but they will soon forget about it. They'll run him out eventually. But if they would yield more to his expertise, give him more breathing room and fostered an environment that encouraged Mourinho to stick around and build (leave aside Mourinho's own natural tendency to never settle; that's a separate issue), I think they would achieve more success over the long term.

Alright, so it's not because of any particular good decisions he's made in the last 18 months, but because of his Premier League record. Which decisions worthy of a great manager do you think he's made in the last 18 months? What has he done in the last 18 months that offsets his neglect of the midfield and his tactical disasters against Barcelona and Manchester City, let alone show that he is still this great manager.

Also, let's talk about his Champions League record - is 2 European Cups in well over 20 years, most of them at one of the world's biggest clubs, good enough for a great manager? For comparison, TSO has 2 in 9 years.

ViVaRooney wrote:because he is level on points with a team that is the best in the league and have far better individuals then ours

the only criticism you should be directing at fergie is the lack of signings. which may or may not have to do with fergie, either way i personally dont need us to sign loads of players, until we are in danger of going out the top 4 i dont see anything to complain about. Fergie has done nothing to deserve a sacking.. not even close

you are just echoing everything that was said in 2005 when we were going through another transition, people just dont have the patience. Ronaldo leaving forced us into this transition too, if he was still here we wouldnt need anyone

If he had bought effectively with his £80m in 2009 then we could have continued to be successful, but no, he sat there are complained that there was no value in the market in the same summer than Sneijder and Robben went for a combined total of about £30m (that's the same as Young + Bebe + Hernandez). He does that and our "transition" looks like this

van der Sar

O'Shea Ferdinand Vidic Evra

Carrick Sneijder Fletcher

Robben Rooney Nani

Not to mention his bizarre assertion in the same summer that Carlos Tevez simply wasn't worth £25.5m, despite United matching that price and offering Tevez a contract. The signs should have been seen in 2009.

And please, don't blame this on the Glazers, the No. 1 backer of the Glazers' ownership of Manchester United is Sir Alexander Ferguson.

who said those players wanted to come here?

maybe robben didnt wanna go to a team that plays against chelsea.. maybe bayern offered a better contract

sniejder maybe wanted to go to italy since its far better then manchester..

you act like those players would have jumped at man utd, there is no proof we went for those players or we didnt so your point is irrelevant.

SAF should put this team together:

Joe Hart


Arbeloa Ferdinand Vidic Evra

Carrick Xabi

Messi Sneijder Ronaldo

Rooney



Anything short of that is just shameful work by Sir Alex.

Money will be spent this summer, I guarantee that.

On what?

menalawyerguy wrote:On what?

Uhm.. more creativity and support in the middle?