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33 posters

    The quality and attraction of Celtic

    ConorCelticFC
    ConorCelticFC
     
     


    Posts : 1918

    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by ConorCelticFC Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:43 am

    I'm on a Celtic forum and I noticed a thread from here that someone had posted on it about Gary Hooper moving to Southampton. Needless to say, the reaction of the Talkceltic members wasn't great. To be honest, I feel some of the opinions on here are very unfair and I'd like to put across my argument that Celtic are very underrated as a team and as a prospect to players.

    Firstly, besides the fact that the guy who made the thread seemed to be set on listing all the cons of Celtic and all the pros of Southampton, an interesting point that didn't really come up was who were the better team. Southampton are top of the Championship now but I feel that their team is far inferior to that of Celtic, as someone who has watched a lot of both this season. Southampton have a Celtic reject, Jos Hooiveld, who only played a handful of games for us over the last 2 years before we loaned him to them, where he has started every match. Danny Fox is another who didn't make the grade at Celtic and yet now starts for Southampton, the top team in the Championship. A combined XI would be, in my opinion:

    Forster (Celtic)

    Matthews (Celtic) Majstorovic (Celtic) Mulgrew(Celtic) Izaguirre (Celtic)

    Forrest (Celtic) Kayal (Celtic) Ledley (Celtic) Lallana (Southampton)

    Hooper (Celtic) Lambert (Southapton)

    In my honest opinion, that is the best overall team. Even to put Lallana in is generous, considering I am leaving out established international midfielders in Ki (Korean Footballer of the Year 2011 ahead of the likes of Park and Lee), Commons (top scorer in the Championship when we bought him in January last year), Brown and Wanyama.

    Also, the consensus that most people would rather play for Southampton is at odds with the patterns of footballers in recent years. Ledley left Cardiff to join us, rejecting Stoke, as did Matthews. Commons left Derby for us. Hooper rejected a contract offer from an unnamed premiership club to join us last season. Wanyama rejected Villa. Lustig rejected Fulham. The list goes on. Choosing a premiership club over Celtic is a hard decision for most players, and in all honesty choosing a Championship club is hugely unlikely.

    All this is academic because Hooper will not be going to Southampton, unless they can afford at the very least 8-9 million pounds. Which they can't. But for a team that beat Rennes in Europe this year and drew twice with Udinese (top of Serie A at the time, and it was their first team by the way, certainly in their home leg), I feel that Celtic have not been getting the respect they deserve.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:45 am

    The thread was closed for a reason. Do not come to our forum and cause arguments, i'm locking this here.
    ConorCelticFC
    ConorCelticFC
     
     


    Posts : 1918

    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by ConorCelticFC Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:45 am

    I'm not causing argumentts, just putting a point across.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:46 am

    James wrote:The thread was closed for a reason. Do not come to our forum and cause arguments, i'm locking this here.

    He's not trying to cause arguments, he's only saying his piece.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:46 am

    The only people that seem to care so much are the Celtic/SPL fans.....
    Pippo
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    Formerly known as : Pippo Inzaghi
    Posts : 30777

    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Pippo Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:47 am

    Welcome to the forum anyway Conor Smile.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:47 am

    COYS wrote:The only people that seem to care so much are the Celtic/SPL fans.....

    Obviously, they're the ones who are the subject of pointless ridicule by idiots.
    ConorCelticFC
    ConorCelticFC
     
     


    Posts : 1918

    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by ConorCelticFC Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:48 am

    Pippo wrote:Welcome to the forum anyway Conor Smile.

    cheers. Laughing
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:48 am

    BladeGunner wrote:
    COYS wrote:The only people that seem to care so much are the Celtic/SPL fans.....

    Obviously, they're the ones who are the subject of pointless ridicule by idiots.

    If it's pointless ridicule by idiots why respond at all.

    Should be secure in the knowledge they're wrong.
    Anonymous
    Guest
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:49 am

    Excellent piece. Unfortunately there are a lot of sheep on here, so don't expect too much rationality.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:51 am

    COYS wrote:
    BladeGunner wrote:

    Obviously, they're the ones who are the subject of pointless ridicule by idiots.

    If it's pointless ridicule by idiots why respond at all.

    Should be secure in the knowledge they're wrong.

    Yeah, as if no one except SPL fans have risen to the bait before. Happens all the time on this forum.
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:52 am

    At the end of the day, players would probably rather play in a team that's likely to be in the Premier League, than play for a team in the SPL.
    ConorCelticFC
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    Posts : 1918

    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by ConorCelticFC Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:52 am

    Eternal Witcher wrote:Excellent piece. Unfortunately there are a lot of sheep on here, so don't expect too much rationality.

    The quality and attraction of Celtic 284837
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:53 am

    BladeGunner wrote:
    COYS wrote:

    If it's pointless ridicule by idiots why respond at all.

    Should be secure in the knowledge they're wrong.

    Yeah, as if no one except SPL fans have risen to the bait before. Happens all the time on this forum.

    He's come from another forum to rise to it though shifty
    Anonymous
    Guest
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:53 am

    Only one way to settle this, football manager.
    Ben 10
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Ben 10 Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:55 am

    Southampton could probably pay £9 Million for Gary Hooper, they have a lot of money.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:55 am

    I thought i'd take your post seriously, I stopped at the bit where you said you'd watched alot of both this season. Can you tell me how many times you've watched Southampton? THey aren't on tv often.
    MickStupp
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by MickStupp Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:55 am

    What do you mean Fox didn't make the grade? He was sold for a profit, and did all right.

    Never seen the initial thread and I haven't watched Southampton so can't really comment on much else, but this seems like a good argument.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:57 am

    MickStupp wrote:What do you mean Fox didn't make the grade? He was sold for a profit, and did all right.

    Never seen the initial thread and I haven't watched Southampton so can't really comment on much else, but this seems like a good argument.

    Technically it was 2 threads. It started in the transfer rumour thread when Hooper was linked with Southampton, then another thread was made.
    Laurencio
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Laurencio Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:58 am

    ConorCelticFC wrote:I'm on a Celtic forum and I noticed a thread from here that someone had posted on it about Gary Hooper moving to Southampton. Needless to say, the reaction of the Talkceltic members wasn't great. To be honest, I feel some of the opinions on here are very unfair and I'd like to put across my argument that Celtic are very underrated as a team and as a prospect to players.

    Firstly, besides the fact that the guy who made the thread seemed to be set on listing all the cons of Celtic and all the pros of Southampton, an interesting point that didn't really come up was who were the better team. Southampton are top of the Championship now but I feel that their team is far inferior to that of Celtic, as someone who has watched a lot of both this season. Southampton have a Celtic reject, Jos Hooiveld, who only played a handful of games for us over the last 2 years before we loaned him to them, where he has started every match. Danny Fox is another who didn't make the grade at Celtic and yet now starts for Southampton, the top team in the Championship. A combined XI would be, in my opinion:

    Forster (Celtic)

    Matthews (Celtic) Majstorovic (Celtic) Mulgrew(Celtic) Izaguirre (Celtic)

    Forrest (Celtic) Kayal (Celtic) Ledley (Celtic) Lallana (Southampton)

    Hooper (Celtic) Lambert (Southapton)

    In my honest opinion, that is the best overall team. Even to put Lallana in is generous, considering I am leaving out established international midfielders in Ki (Korean Footballer of the Year 2011 ahead of the likes of Park and Lee), Commons (top scorer in the Championship when we bought him in January last year), Brown and Wanyama.

    Also, the consensus that most people would rather play for Southampton is at odds with the patterns of footballers in recent years. Ledley left Cardiff to join us, rejecting Stoke, as did Matthews. Commons left Derby for us. Hooper rejected a contract offer from an unnamed premiership club to join us last season. Wanyama rejected Villa. Lustig rejected Fulham. The list goes on. Choosing a premiership club over Celtic is a hard decision for most players, and in all honesty choosing a Championship club is hugely unlikely.

    All this is academic because Hooper will not be going to Southampton, unless they can afford at the very least 8-9 million pounds. Which they can't. But for a team that beat Rennes in Europe this year and drew twice with Udinese (top of Serie A at the time, and it was their first team by the way, certainly in their home leg), I feel that Celtic have not been getting the respect they deserve.

    Sorry for the rant.

    No one is saying Celtic isn't a good team, nor that they aren't a better team that Southampton. However Southampton will likely play in the Premiership next season, they have a manager with ambition and owners who believe the club should be a premiership side, and willing to spend to make that happen.

    Celtic is a good club, but it is also the top of Scottish football (alongside Rangers). You can't get any higher, the next step is a big premiership club or a big continental club. Although possible to achieve from playing in the SPL it is difficult considering that managers and scouts have been quoted in saying that the SPL is no meassure for how good a player is. It would be easier for Hooper to be picked up by a bigger Premiership side, maybe even the national team, if he played well in the Premiership.

    That is the reason why Southampton would be a good move. Has nothing to do with undervaluing Celtic as a club, or overestimating Southampton or the Championship. Managers and scouts do not trust the SPL these days, it's a league that has lost almost all credibility, and that's why if Hooper wants a bigger move, wants to play for the national team, he can not stay in the SPL. Nothing to do with disrespecting Celtic, it's how things are.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:58 am

    Scott's opening post in the first thread set the tone really. I don't want to get into this argument again, but here's an alternative view. Bearing in mind Celtic have a better team than Southampton.

    Celtic:
    Play in front of 50,000 of the best fans in Britain every home game
    Be involved in arguably the biggest derby match in the world
    Be in with a chance of winning trophies every season
    Play in Europe every season with a good chance of Champions League football next year
    Play exciting, attacking football

    Southampton:
    Play in a second tier league with your best shot being promotion followed by embarrassment in the top tier, although Norwich have been surprising this year. Queens Park Rangers are not fairing very well
    No chance of winning trophies with the possible exception of the Championship title
    Play in front of an average attendance of 20,000 silent fans at home
    Play with players who are largely has beens, and mostly overrated because they play in England
    Literally no chance of Champions League football
    Put yourself in the market for a big money move to a bigger Premiership club whose bench you will warm for a year or two before fading into obscurity.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:00 am

    What an incredibly biased/shit post that is. Fuck off.
    Anonymous
    Guest
    Guest


    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:00 am

    Laurencio, more and more players are now using the Scottish Premier League as a stepping stone in the Premiership, I can only think of Alan Pardew who criticised the standard of the league.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:01 am

    Scott MacDougall wrote:What an incredibly biased/shit post that is. Fuck off.

    Laughing
    Uncle John from Jamaica
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Uncle John from Jamaica Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:02 am

    James wrote:I thought i'd take your post seriously, I stopped at the bit where you said you'd watched alot of both this season. Can you tell me how many times you've watched Southampton? THey aren't on tv often.

    I guess 2. That's how many times I've seen them.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:02 am

    Scott MacDougall wrote:What an incredibly biased/shit post that is. Fuck off.

    Fantastic response Scott. Maybe you didn't manage to read it properly because of all that pussy your drowning in?
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:03 am

    Uncle John from Jamaica wrote:
    James wrote:I thought i'd take your post seriously, I stopped at the bit where you said you'd watched alot of both this season. Can you tell me how many times you've watched Southampton? THey aren't on tv often.

    I guess 2. That's how many times I've seen them.

    What 2 times were those?

    Was one the Southampton - Portsmouth derby on BBC1 the other week? shifty
    Laurencio
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Laurencio Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:04 am

    The Maestro wrote:Laurencio, more and more players are now using the Scottish Premier League as a stepping stone in the Premiership, I can only think of Alan Pardew who criticised the standard of the league.

    Capello won't even consider Hooper, he could score 50 goals in Scotland and not get a look in. The bigger clubs in the premiership are a lot more likely to consider buying a player if he plays well in the premiership than if he plays well in Scotland. It might not be fair, but it's how things are.
    Uncle John from Jamaica
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Uncle John from Jamaica Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:05 am

    Yeah and the other was when thu beat us 3-0, evening kick off on the opening day. They played better than Celtic that day for sure.
    Anonymous
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    The quality and attraction of Celtic Empty Re: The quality and attraction of Celtic

    Post by Guest Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:07 am

    The Maestro wrote:
    Scott MacDougall wrote:What an incredibly biased/shit post that is. Fuck off.

    Fantastic response Scott. Maybe you didn't manage to read it properly because of all that pussy your drowning in?
    You really are a shit member.

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