Pastore signs for PSG

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:Luke you're in the wrong this time so take it like a man.

How am I in the wrong?

I want him to back up his point of Pastore being better value then Torres.

You spent £50 million on a striker who had been off form all season. I know they had a shit manager but why pay £50 million for someone who wasn't at their best? Pastore is probably on form, getting better, younger, cheaper and probably has the potential to surpass the achievements Torres has had throughout his career.

You don't pay for form, you pay for class. Torres has proven that, Pastore hasn't. Nor has he gone to a league where he could actually prove himself.

I know but you don't pay for a player off form either. That is backed up by the fact that he hasn't performed well for you since moving. When you buy an on form player they normally make a better impact than an off form player for obvious reasons. Torres might never get back to his former self for all we know for whatever reason. I know I'm contradicting my first sentence here but you don't always pay for class. Hernandez might of been good in the Mexican league but that is nowhere near the standard of the Premier League and you don't pay for Mexican League "class" if that makes sense. Fergie saw something in him and it paid off. It's about buying for the future as well. Although you needed a player to make an instant impact Pastore could of done that. Some players for the future can shine straight away.

The main reason he hasn't performed well has been down to the fucking awful system's Ancelotti played. Didn't suit Torres at all. Ancelotti wanted Torres to adapt to his system, but Ancelotti needed to adapt to Torres, it didn't happen. He was suffering from immense media pressure, imagine after every game you play, and you have a £50m bounty on your head, papers, fans, everyone, is calling for your head if you don't score, every eye is watching you when you do something wrong. When he done something right, scoring, even then it was because of a puddle, how's all that for a confidence boost?

There's a big difference between spotting something in a young player, then buying a proven player, too.

You don't change a formation for a player, one player < a club, there are 10 other players on the pitch playing for the same team.

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

How am I in the wrong?

I want him to back up his point of Pastore being better value then Torres.

You spent £50 million on a striker who had been off form all season. I know they had a shit manager but why pay £50 million for someone who wasn't at their best? Pastore is probably on form, getting better, younger, cheaper and probably has the potential to surpass the achievements Torres has had throughout his career.

You don't pay for form, you pay for class. Torres has proven that, Pastore hasn't. Nor has he gone to a league where he could actually prove himself.

I know but you don't pay for a player off form either. That is backed up by the fact that he hasn't performed well for you since moving. When you buy an on form player they normally make a better impact than an off form player for obvious reasons. Torres might never get back to his former self for all we know for whatever reason. I know I'm contradicting my first sentence here but you don't always pay for class. Hernandez might of been good in the Mexican league but that is nowhere near the standard of the Premier League and you don't pay for Mexican League "class" if that makes sense. Fergie saw something in him and it paid off. It's about buying for the future as well. Although you needed a player to make an instant impact Pastore could of done that. Some players for the future can shine straight away.

The main reason he hasn't performed well has been down to the fucking awful system's Ancelotti played. Didn't suit Torres at all. Ancelotti wanted Torres to adapt to his system, but Ancelotti needed to adapt to Torres, it didn't happen. He was suffering from immense media pressure, imagine after every game you play, and you have a £50m bounty on your head, papers, fans, everyone, is calling for your head if you don't score, every eye is watching you when you do something wrong. When he done something right, scoring, even then it was because of a puddle, how's all that for a confidence boost?

There's a big difference between spotting something in a young player, then buying a proven player, too.

That's your fault for paying that much for him then. You can only blame yourselves for giving him that pressure to handle. Some players handle it others don't. It's a big gamble. Torres did fine when Liverpool paid half that much and that was a lot of money back then although like you said he didn't fit into your system last season. You still had Drogba, Anelka and other players who could probably play up front anyway? When those players are not playing well then you don't go out and buy a replacement as it just disrupts the squad and especially those who will lose their places. The dressing room is the hardest place to have an idea of what's going on as usually managers and players try to hide the fact that mood is bad.

He did change the formation for him though, and that was the problem.

4-3-3 was fine, but trying and keeping the 4-4-2 and trying to make Torres adapt to it was killer.

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:
You spent £50 million on a striker who had been off form all season. I know they had a shit manager but why pay £50 million for someone who wasn't at their best? Pastore is probably on form, getting better, younger, cheaper and probably has the potential to surpass the achievements Torres has had throughout his career.

You don't pay for form, you pay for class. Torres has proven that, Pastore hasn't. Nor has he gone to a league where he could actually prove himself.

I know but you don't pay for a player off form either. That is backed up by the fact that he hasn't performed well for you since moving. When you buy an on form player they normally make a better impact than an off form player for obvious reasons. Torres might never get back to his former self for all we know for whatever reason. I know I'm contradicting my first sentence here but you don't always pay for class. Hernandez might of been good in the Mexican league but that is nowhere near the standard of the Premier League and you don't pay for Mexican League "class" if that makes sense. Fergie saw something in him and it paid off. It's about buying for the future as well. Although you needed a player to make an instant impact Pastore could of done that. Some players for the future can shine straight away.

The main reason he hasn't performed well has been down to the fucking awful system's Ancelotti played. Didn't suit Torres at all. Ancelotti wanted Torres to adapt to his system, but Ancelotti needed to adapt to Torres, it didn't happen. He was suffering from immense media pressure, imagine after every game you play, and you have a £50m bounty on your head, papers, fans, everyone, is calling for your head if you don't score, every eye is watching you when you do something wrong. When he done something right, scoring, even then it was because of a puddle, how's all that for a confidence boost?

There's a big difference between spotting something in a young player, then buying a proven player, too.

That's your fault for paying that much for him then. You can only blame yourselves for giving him that pressure to handle. Some players handle it others don't. It's a big gamble. Torres did fine when Liverpool paid half that much and that was a lot of money back then although like you said he didn't fit into your system last season. You still had Drogba, Anelka and other players who could probably play up front anyway? When those players are not playing well then you don't go out and buy a replacement as it just disrupts the squad and especially those who will lose their places. The dressing room is the hardest place to have an idea of what's going on as usually managers and players try to hide the fact that mood is bad.

We're not to blame for what the media print. Also, there's a big difference from his transfer to Liverpool then from. To Liverpool he was coming into a new country, no-one really knew much about him, and he set the stage perfectly. To Chelsea, he'd already set the bar high, and with someone who'd struggled with injury in the pre-season, after a World Cup year, fatigue played a big part as well, you could see he wasn't as fit and sharp as the Torres we know, he also looked as if he had the world on his shoulders. Torres arrival didn't disrupt the squad, it did the complete opposite. Guess who sparked to life when he arrived? Drogba.

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

You don't pay for form, you pay for class. Torres has proven that, Pastore hasn't. Nor has he gone to a league where he could actually prove himself.

I know but you don't pay for a player off form either. That is backed up by the fact that he hasn't performed well for you since moving. When you buy an on form player they normally make a better impact than an off form player for obvious reasons. Torres might never get back to his former self for all we know for whatever reason. I know I'm contradicting my first sentence here but you don't always pay for class. Hernandez might of been good in the Mexican league but that is nowhere near the standard of the Premier League and you don't pay for Mexican League "class" if that makes sense. Fergie saw something in him and it paid off. It's about buying for the future as well. Although you needed a player to make an instant impact Pastore could of done that. Some players for the future can shine straight away.

The main reason he hasn't performed well has been down to the fucking awful system's Ancelotti played. Didn't suit Torres at all. Ancelotti wanted Torres to adapt to his system, but Ancelotti needed to adapt to Torres, it didn't happen. He was suffering from immense media pressure, imagine after every game you play, and you have a £50m bounty on your head, papers, fans, everyone, is calling for your head if you don't score, every eye is watching you when you do something wrong. When he done something right, scoring, even then it was because of a puddle, how's all that for a confidence boost?

There's a big difference between spotting something in a young player, then buying a proven player, too.

That's your fault for paying that much for him then. You can only blame yourselves for giving him that pressure to handle. Some players handle it others don't. It's a big gamble. Torres did fine when Liverpool paid half that much and that was a lot of money back then although like you said he didn't fit into your system last season. You still had Drogba, Anelka and other players who could probably play up front anyway? When those players are not playing well then you don't go out and buy a replacement as it just disrupts the squad and especially those who will lose their places. The dressing room is the hardest place to have an idea of what's going on as usually managers and players try to hide the fact that mood is bad.

We're not to blame for what the media print. Also, there's a big difference from his transfer to Liverpool then from. To Liverpool he was coming into a new country, no-one really knew much about him, and he set the stage perfectly. To Chelsea, he'd already set the bar high, and with someone who'd struggled with injury in the pre-season, after a World Cup year, fatigue played a big part as well, you could see he wasn't as fit and sharp as the Torres we know, he also looked as if he had the world on his shoulders. Torres arrival didn't disrupt the squad, it did the complete opposite. Guess who sparked to life when he arrived? Drogba.

The new country thing is rubbish. Forlan came to a new country and did fuck all and so did Shevchenko. Torres was as well known as Forlan before they both moved to England. As for setting the bar high that means fuck all either. Tevez set the bar high as have plenty of other foreign players who haven't flopped first time round. Torres may have struggled with injury but why buy him if he was struggling? Surely if he was struggling that much he would have either failed the medical or played in some reserve matches to build up his match fitness or something along those lines. I don't watch Chelsea so I don't know what happened when he joined but I'll take your word that Drogba did spark to life when Torres arrived. Drogba might of already been frustrated at something and wanted a new strike partner but I've got no clue so I wont try and make anything up.

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:

luke. wrote:

coolhead33 wrote:
I know but you don't pay for a player off form either. That is backed up by the fact that he hasn't performed well for you since moving. When you buy an on form player they normally make a better impact than an off form player for obvious reasons. Torres might never get back to his former self for all we know for whatever reason. I know I'm contradicting my first sentence here but you don't always pay for class. Hernandez might of been good in the Mexican league but that is nowhere near the standard of the Premier League and you don't pay for Mexican League "class" if that makes sense. Fergie saw something in him and it paid off. It's about buying for the future as well. Although you needed a player to make an instant impact Pastore could of done that. Some players for the future can shine straight away.

The main reason he hasn't performed well has been down to the fucking awful system's Ancelotti played. Didn't suit Torres at all. Ancelotti wanted Torres to adapt to his system, but Ancelotti needed to adapt to Torres, it didn't happen. He was suffering from immense media pressure, imagine after every game you play, and you have a £50m bounty on your head, papers, fans, everyone, is calling for your head if you don't score, every eye is watching you when you do something wrong. When he done something right, scoring, even then it was because of a puddle, how's all that for a confidence boost?

There's a big difference between spotting something in a young player, then buying a proven player, too.

That's your fault for paying that much for him then. You can only blame yourselves for giving him that pressure to handle. Some players handle it others don't. It's a big gamble. Torres did fine when Liverpool paid half that much and that was a lot of money back then although like you said he didn't fit into your system last season. You still had Drogba, Anelka and other players who could probably play up front anyway? When those players are not playing well then you don't go out and buy a replacement as it just disrupts the squad and especially those who will lose their places. The dressing room is the hardest place to have an idea of what's going on as usually managers and players try to hide the fact that mood is bad.

We're not to blame for what the media print. Also, there's a big difference from his transfer to Liverpool then from. To Liverpool he was coming into a new country, no-one really knew much about him, and he set the stage perfectly. To Chelsea, he'd already set the bar high, and with someone who'd struggled with injury in the pre-season, after a World Cup year, fatigue played a big part as well, you could see he wasn't as fit and sharp as the Torres we know, he also looked as if he had the world on his shoulders. Torres arrival didn't disrupt the squad, it did the complete opposite. Guess who sparked to life when he arrived? Drogba.

The new country thing is rubbish. Forlan came to a new country and did fuck all and so did Shevchenko. Torres was as well known as Forlan before they both moved to England. As for setting the bar high that means fuck all either. Tevez set the bar high as have plenty of other foreign players who haven't flopped first time round. Torres may have struggled with injury but why buy him if he was struggling? Surely if he was struggling that much he would have either failed the medical or played in some reserve matches to build up his match fitness or something along those lines. I don't watch Chelsea so I don't know what happened when he joined but I'll take your word that Drogba did spark to life when Torres arrived. Drogba might of already been frustrated at something and wanted a new strike partner but I've got no clue so I wont try and make anything up.

You read the country thing the wrong way. What I meant was he didn't really have a reputation, That's how I meant it, the country thing was just because of the press really, especially as he hadn't exactly moved from one of Liverpool's rivals. There wasn't much pressure on him. There was no way he was going to play in the reserves, that wouldn't really help his confidence and you don't pay £50m to stick someone in the reserves for a while. With the fitness thing I meant he wasn't fully physically fit, or mentally fit.

Moving to a rival club didn't stop Tevez doing well did it? If it would of helped him, the reserves would of been good for a few games. One of our highest earners McCormack was bought near the end of the last summer transfer window and had to play in the reserves and it looks like it paid off. I know a £50 million player is meant to be amazing from the start but form doesn't usually change over night. The £50 million would of been better spent on a different striker or position. Buying or selling a player halfway through a season can backfire easily for the club or player as they have to adapt. Torres had a hard task of eclipsing his best even though he was miles from his best at the time. It was a silly move to buy Torres in my opinion although the January window is a panicky time especially near the end.

Tevez didn't have the media hanging off him though, and Man United didn't own Tevez outright. Could you imagine the media frenzy if Torres was put in the reserves though? It'd be relentless.

I still think he'll get at least 15 goals this season.

chocolate hob nobs!!

liverpool had packets of them literally all over the place whilst chelsea refuse to buy them cos they don't sell em at harrods.

Tevez did but not as much as Torres. Like I said before, only a couple of games. The reserves would of given him match fitness and confidence without the pressure.

I think he will get 10-20 this season depending how much he plays and if he isn't Shevchenko version 2. This season will be make or break for him at Chelsea. I think it could either pay off big time or wreck his career in which it would take about 5 years to recover from.

coolhead33 wrote:Tevez did but not as much as Torres. Like I said before, only a couple of games. The reserves would of given him match fitness and confidence without the pressure.

I think he will get 10-20 this season depending how much he plays and if he isn't Shevchenko version 2. This season will be make or break for him at Chelsea. I think it could either pay off big time or wreck his career in which it would take about 5 years to recover from.

How so?

This is assuming Chelsea stop using him after this season by the way. It just feels that his confidence would be fucked forever after that. It would be hard for him to have the belief that he could still play at the top level. I'm probably wrong but I don't know of anyone who has bounced back from such a blow mentally to go on and get their career back on track.

Never worth that much.

I'd laugh if PSG finish 10th now