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    Why England Lost and Qatar Won

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    Why England Lost and Qatar Won Empty Why England Lost and Qatar Won

    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:56 am

    Good article that makes some good points that I was trying to allude to yesterday.

    Mike Lee is the man who can unlock the door in the background. He is not a David Beckham, Prince William, or David Cameron, but he is the PR expert who helped London land the 2012 Olympics, and who was overlooked for the job with the FA's 2018 bid - so he took up the appointment with Qatar, and helped them land the World Cup in 2022.

    Lee also helped John W Henry navigate the media minefield at one of the world's most famous football clubs during the American's takeover in the most acrimonious circumstances from the hated Hicks and Gillett regime.

    On his way back from Zurich as the one Englishman at FIFA's World Cup vote to emerge victorious, he is the man with the answers. Why did England fail? And why the country vilified in this country for winning 2022 deserved to have been voted in.

    "I could say a lot but I am not going to, let's say that is for others to determine,'' he told ESPNsoccernet. But you don't win any bid campaign over the final two days, it is over the previous two years.

    "When we went to Singapore to land the Olympics for London 2012 we did so with a very solid base before Tony Blair turned up, so these bids are really not won in the final presentations.

    "I must say, though, that England's final presentation was very good, but let's be realistic they had rather bigger obstacles they needed to look to overcome."

    So why does Qatar deserve the World Cup, when it's being ridiculed in this country?

    "If your own bid is not successful people tend to lash out, but my focus has not been on 2018, and you won't find me commenting on the British press. Again, I will let others do that,'' he added.

    "Let me put it this way in defining why Qatar deserves 2022, you don't go through two years campaigning unless you have the right answers. You provide those in the very substantial bid book we produced, in the full inspection team, and you don't come out on top without addressing all the questions. There is no hiding place from that. Whether you have convinced the Executive is another matter.

    "Clearly, we did convince them. I know size is being made an issue. But I agree size does matter, and we have used that to our advantage, while others are suggesting it is a disadvantage.

    "We have built part of our campaign on the fact that you will be able to see two or even three World Cup ties in one day if you wished in this single and small World Cup location.

    "It will be vastly different from the amount of travelling at past World Cups in South Africa and the USA and in Brazil coming up, and it's been about taking advantage of the size issue not seeing it as a disadvantage.

    "The other issue being thrown around at the moment is the tiny population of Qatar, but the World Cup is global. It's about the people coming to the country, and by 2022 there will be a population of 700 million in the Middle East."

    As for the fact that he was fatally overlooked by England and ended up with Qatar, Lee commented: "I am very flattered that you are making the point that there has been an English winner in Zurich, but that is just down to hard work, but not down to me, it's been a team effort, and a very big team who put together a fantastic campaign with very strong technical proposals."

    But once again, the FA and England's bid has fallen victim to one PR disaster after another. Lee said: "I did have early discussions with Andy Anson, but I was also talking to Qatar. It was a mutual decision really. England didn't need my advice and Qatar's bid for 2022 didn't clash with England's bid for 2018, and I took on the Qatar challenge because it is a very interesting part of the world."

    Would Lee have seen them coming? Did the FA appoint the right people in their team? There might need to be some deep and meaningful soul-searching internally rather than all the focus on the external reasons thus far given as to why England failed in Zurich for 2018.

    It's all about presenting yourself. England felt like they had this in the bag while Qatar worked so hard over 2 years to try to get this. I also read somewhere else that England lost because the voters blamed the English media and the arrogance of England's bid.
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:01 am

    Arrogance was the reason last time. There was not one hint of it from the bid at all, it's a poor excuse. We lost it simply because we were English. Had we been named France or Switzerland we'd have got it.
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    Post by Barton Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:02 am

    Aparently it has a lot to do with the English media having the right to free speech, which is bullshit. Russia and Qatar's media are probably just as corrupt as FIFA, kissing their arses so they can have the bid. Neutral
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:05 am

    Dan wrote:Arrogance was the reason last time. There was not one hint of it from the bid at all, it's a poor excuse. We lost it simply because we were English. Had we been named France or Switzerland we'd have got it.
    Agree with this, shite excuse.
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    Post by Danny Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:09 am

    I've been reading around some places, and apprantly we had a few deals with people to vote for us, but they didn't. Think we had one with Jack Warner (Trinidad) and he went and voted for someone else (probably Russia ) Neutral
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:14 am

    JMB_94 wrote:Aparently it has a lot to do with the English media having the right to free speech, which is bullshit. Russia and Qatar's media are probably just as corrupt as FIFA, kissing their arses so they can have the bid. Neutral

    So be it. There is nothing wrong with kissing their ass to try to win something. If your media chooses that risk, then they should face the consequences that come with it. I'm not saying the media can't practice free speech.

    Danny B wrote:I've been reading around some places, and apprantly we had a few deals with people to vote for us, but they didn't. Think we had one with Jack Warner (Trinidad) and he went and voted for someone else (probably Russia ) Neutral

    I don't think bidding nations should be allowed to talk to the voters.
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    Post by Danny Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:16 am

    ahlycotc wrote:
    I don't think bidding nations should be allowed to talk to the voters.

    Exactly, because it leads to situations like this: "I'll vote for who you're representing, if you vote for us". Then whoever you've "dealed" with, can just go and vote for whoever they want, or vice-versa. It ends with the final outcome of the bids being unfair. I swear someone yesterday suggested the bidding should be done seperately- so it should get around that.
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    Post by Lux Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:17 am

    ahlycotc wrote:So be it. There is nothing wrong with kissing their ass to try to win something. If your media chooses that risk, then they should face the consequences that come with it. I'm not saying the media can't practice free speech.

    It shouldn't be about that at all. These people should be professional enough to ignore the media and vote based on the things that actually matter.

    ahlycotc wrote:
    I don't think bidding nations should be allowed to talk to the voters.

    That's never going to happen though. You can't hide the voters from society for 2 years.
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    Post by dena Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:18 am

    Dan wrote:Arrogance was the reason last time. There was not one hint of it from the bid at all, it's a poor excuse. We lost it simply because we were English. Had we been named France or Switzerland we'd have got it.

    I definitely got a hint of it this time around, I can't remember the names but I did keep repeatedly hearing members of the English bid committee claiming they had the best bid, even if that's the case, you do not flaunt it out in the open like that. It can definitely put off voters.
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:19 am

    Danny B wrote:
    ahlycotc wrote:
    I don't think bidding nations should be allowed to talk to the voters.

    Exactly, because it leads to situations like this: "I'll vote for who you're representing, if you vote for us". Then whoever you've "dealed" with, can just go and vote for whoever they want, or vice-versa. It ends with the final outcome of the bids being unfair. I swear someone yesterday suggested the bidding should be done seperately- so it should get around that.

    What do you mean?
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    Post by Danny Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:20 am

    ahlycotc wrote:
    What do you mean?

    As in, they're not announced at the same time. So it could possibly avoid "if we vote for you in 2022, will you vote for us in 2018".

    Whatever, something needs to be fixed, this method is ridiculous Neutral
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    Post by Lux Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:23 am

    dena wrote:I definitely got a hint of it this time around, I can't remember the names but I did keep repeatedly hearing members of the English bid committee claiming they had the best bid, even if that's the case, you do not flaunt it out in the open like that. It can definitely put off voters.

    Let's say we have the worst bid then?

    The whole point of the bids is to put across the best bid you can and be confident about it.
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    Post by Cornholio Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:23 am

    dena wrote:
    Dan wrote:Arrogance was the reason last time. There was not one hint of it from the bid at all, it's a poor excuse. We lost it simply because we were English. Had we been named France or Switzerland we'd have got it.

    I definitely got a hint of it this time around, I can't remember the names but I did keep repeatedly hearing members of the English bid committee claiming they had the best bid, even if that's the case, you do not flaunt it out in the open like that. It can definitely put off voters.

    Too many people mistake confidence for arrogance. It's natural for any person or people to claim they're the best when they're trying to win votes.


    I believe it was down to panorama. Not necessarily what they shown, but just the fact that it gave them an excuse not to vote for England.

    Or there's definitely some brown envelopes floating around. How can they have a security report or whatever it was state that England had the best bid in place and have concerns over Russia's bid. Then have England go out last and Russia win?

    There's something not right going on.
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    Post by dena Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:29 am

    Luxz0rz wrote:
    dena wrote:I definitely got a hint of it this time around, I can't remember the names but I did keep repeatedly hearing members of the English bid committee claiming they had the best bid, even if that's the case, you do not flaunt it out in the open like that. It can definitely put off voters.

    Let's say we have the worst bid then?

    The whole point of the bids is to put across the best bid you can and be confident about it.

    Like Ryan says below, confidence is always misrepresented as arrogance, Ronaldo is thought of as the most arrogant player in the world because he is confident in his ability, even though he is better than 99% of the players out there, it is still looked as a negative thing. The best thing you can do in my opinion is to put out a great bid, lobby to get the votes you need, and then shut up. There is no need to tell the media that you have the best bid, does nothing really.

    Ryan wrote:
    dena wrote:
    Dan wrote:Arrogance was the reason last time. There was not one hint of it from the bid at all, it's a poor excuse. We lost it simply because we were English. Had we been named France or Switzerland we'd have got it.

    I definitely got a hint of it this time around, I can't remember the names but I did keep repeatedly hearing members of the English bid committee claiming they had the best bid, even if that's the case, you do not flaunt it out in the open like that. It can definitely put off voters.

    Too many people mistake confidence for arrogance. It's natural for any person or people to claim they're the best when they're trying to win votes.


    I believe it was down to panorama. Not necessarily what they shown, but just the fact that it gave them an excuse not to vote for England.

    Or there's definitely some brown envelopes floating around. How can they have a security report or whatever it was state that England had the best bid in place and have concerns over Russia's bid. Then have England go out last and Russia win?

    There's something not right going on.

    One of the dude's who was exposed in Panorama voted for England though right? I'm not sure what FIFA's reasoning was, maybe they dont like England, maybe they were paid off by Russia, I don't know. But in regard to the security things and technical reports, I guess FIFA might feel that 8 and 12 years for Russia and Qatar is enough time to get shit done, I dunno. Because England, Australia, USA, Japan, Korea, etc. where better prepared to host a cup right now than those two.
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    Post by Mal Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:31 am

    Harry Redknapp said something true though. Why do FIFA visit the country and see everything first hand but then need to see a presentation Neutral

    FIFA even said England's bid would be the safest, easiest and the best financially. There was no reason for England not to win, they all got paid to vote for Russia.
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    Post by Cornholio Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:31 am

    Russia will probably go all psycho and threaten to nuke the world in a few years.

    I think we still have a chance.
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    Post by Walcott Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:36 am

    Mal wrote:Harry Redknapp said something true though. Why do FIFA visit the country and see everything first hand but then need to see a presentation Neutral

    FIFA even said England's bid would be the safest, easiest and the best financially. There was no reason for England not to win, they all got paid to vote for Russia.
    This. Both Russia and Quatar wern't even on the same level as England, and they got it. It's bullshit. Both of them had higher risks. Why England Lost and Qatar Won 205103
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:01 am

    Also, how come Russia seemed to know they had won before the vote? Smacks of being fixed.

    The fact that two voted just for England to be last shows that they don't care what the best bid was.
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:10 am

    is not really because you are 'english'

    many memebers were prepared to vote for england but obviously their mind change after that documentary

    put urself intop their shoe

    why would u vote for a bid of a country that just release a documentary about corruption within ur organisation. even if england bid had no relation to bbc documentary, fifa delegates still saw it as an insult and use this as form of punishment
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    Post by Danny Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:11 am

    Yeah, Panaroma is the reason we didn't get it facepalm
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:16 am

    mauro wrote:is not really because you are 'english'

    many memebers were prepared to vote for england but obviously their mind change after that documentary

    put urself intop their shoe

    why would u vote for a bid of a country that just release a documentary about corruption within ur organisation. even if england bid had no relation to bbc documentary, fifa delegates still saw it as an insult and use this as form of punishment

    Erm, if it highlights corruption within the organisation, then surely that's a good thing?

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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:21 am

    Dan wrote:
    mauro wrote:is not really because you are 'english'

    many memebers were prepared to vote for england but obviously their mind change after that documentary

    put urself intop their shoe

    why would u vote for a bid of a country that just release a documentary about corruption within ur organisation. even if england bid had no relation to bbc documentary, fifa delegates still saw it as an insult and use this as form of punishment

    Erm, if it highlights corruption within the organisation, then surely that's a good thing?


    for sure

    but england bid commitee should of request bbc to wait until after the vote was being done

    what is point of making this documentary if u not getting the cup? is like england already gave up

    fifa is very corrupted but if u want world cup u need to bend over for them, at least until they give u the rights to host What a Face
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    Post by Danny Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:23 am

    We weren't gonna get it anyway, fuck Panaroma. Practically told us what we already know Neutral
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    Post by Guest Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:27 am

    mauro wrote:
    Dan wrote:
    mauro wrote:is not really because you are 'english'

    many memebers were prepared to vote for england but obviously their mind change after that documentary

    put urself intop their shoe

    why would u vote for a bid of a country that just release a documentary about corruption within ur organisation. even if england bid had no relation to bbc documentary, fifa delegates still saw it as an insult and use this as form of punishment

    Erm, if it highlights corruption within the organisation, then surely that's a good thing?


    for sure

    but england bid commitee should of request bbc to wait until after the vote was being done

    what is point of making this documentary if u not getting the cup? is like england already gave up

    fifa is very corrupted but if u want world cup u need to bend over for them, at least until they give u the rights to host What a Face

    Which is why the whole system is wrong. Which is why there's such an outrage about it.

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