He's always had ability.
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Liverpool FC Official Thread
Jord-
- Formerly known as : SUPAH BURNLEY!
Posts : 33665
Location : Equestria
Supports : Liverpool FC
Steadman-
- Posts : 6134
Age : 32
Location : London
Supports : I have humor, yes.
Arsene Wenger has a better record than Rafa, didn't you say Wenger is a bad manager?Scott wrote:Rafa managed Valencia and won them 2 La Liga titles, he then lead Liverpool to a European Cup, an FA cup, another European Cup final in '07, several Semi Finals in both the FA Cup and the European Cup, yet people still persist to call him a bad manager?
If Rafa had the same funds that Man United and Chelsea did during his time here, I have full confidence that he would've won the PL Trophy on a regular basis.
Guest- Guest
Steadman wrote:Arsene Wenger has a better record than Rafa, didn't you say Wenger is a bad manager?Scott wrote:Rafa managed Valencia and won them 2 La Liga titles, he then lead Liverpool to a European Cup, an FA cup, another European Cup final in '07, several Semi Finals in both the FA Cup and the European Cup, yet people still persist to call him a bad manager?
If Rafa had the same funds that Man United and Chelsea did during his time here, I have full confidence that he would've won the PL Trophy on a regular basis.
I've never, ever said that in my life. Get your facts right. I think Wenger is a great manager, as he has proven over the years.
Steadman-
- Posts : 6134
Age : 32
Location : London
Supports : I have humor, yes.
My mistake then, loads of people have said it, it's hard to keep track of the people who haven't.Scott wrote:Steadman wrote:
Arsene Wenger has a better record than Rafa, didn't you say Wenger is a bad manager?
I've never, ever said that in my life. Get your facts right. I think Wenger is a great manager, as he has proven over the years.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
That's exactly the fucking point! Why do you think he still lives there??Jay wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:It's true, why do you think he started hanging around Merseyside when Roy Hodgson was under pressure, and when Kenneth Dalglish was only on a temporary contract? What other team would hire a guy who consistently falls out with owners and loses his job over it? His name is filth in Italy after he laid waste to the Treble winners (in a bad way), Bayern have no intention of sacking their manager, TSO and Guardiola are far better managers than him at the top Spanish clubs, and no other top English side would hire him, not with Ancelotti looking for work.
Where do you think he's going to go?
Because he lives here?
Scott wrote:Rafa managed Valencia and won them 2 La Liga titles, he then lead Liverpool to a European Cup, an FA cup, another European Cup final in '07, several Semi Finals in both the FA Cup and the European Cup, yet people still persist to call him a bad manager?
If Rafa had the same funds that Man United and Chelsea did during his time here, I have full confidence that he would've won the PL Trophy on a regular basis.
Let's be honest, Rafael Benitez had an absolute mare in Istanbul, he doesn't deserve any credit for that. Liverpool were 3-0 down by half time because of his shit tactics, and needed what could only be described as a miracle to even get it to a virtual 50/50 chance in a penalty shootout, that was the most fortunate victory of any European Cup Final winning manager, and that includes Ferguson.
I believe Liverpool only reached one FA Cup Semi Final under Rafael Benitez. You are counting individual achievements more than once there as well, you say he lead Liverpool to a European Cup, another Final, and an FA Cup, it is implict that he must have reached Semi Finals, so there is no need to mention that he reached 'Several' Semi Finals, just mention that he reached another CL Semi Final. Biased reporting of the facts does your argument no favours.
I don't think he is a bad manager, I think he is a man who knows how to get the fans on his side, and a man who makes enemies of owners. That's why I don't think there is any other big club in Europe who would take him on - Italy he had a disaster, the big Spanish clubs have better managers, and no English club (not even Aston Villa!) will touch him with a barge pole, so where else would he go? A club like Fulham, as Mauro suggests? I don't think so, he is too proud and egotistical to go down to that level.
El Jefe-
- Formerly known as : Jay
Posts : 10657
Location : In the hall, already, on the wall, already
Supports : Pixie Lott's Legs
ResurrectionRooney wrote:That's exactly the fucking point! Why do you think he still lives there??Jay wrote:
Because he lives here?
Why not? He loves the place, I see no reason why he should move his family and his daughters, who have both lived here since they were about 6 and 4, back to Spain when they are settled in England.
Guest- Guest
He fought for the future of the club, and brought Kenny back 
____
Mini 'mini' Derby on Saturday.
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Mini 'mini' Derby on Saturday.
Guest- Guest
thefadotcom TheFA.com
France 2-2 #EnglandU19s: Will Keane and Jack Robinson scored for the Three Lions in Limoges.
France 2-2 #EnglandU19s: Will Keane and Jack Robinson scored for the Three Lions in Limoges.
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He didn't have a mare in Istanbul, he made a mistake tactically, then rectified it in the second half by bringing Hamann on. It made all the difference as he was able to contain Kaka. Once Kaka was marked out of the game, they could do little to damage us.
Saying he doesn't deserve any credit for it is just stupid. He doesn't deserve credit for beating Juventus and Chelsea to get to the final?
Rafa, with Liverpool, pulled off many famous nights in Europe. Including the 4-0 win over Real Madrid, the 1-0 win over Madrid on their own turf, the 2-0 win over Inter Milan, the 1-0 win over Inter Milan on their own turf. The games against Chelsea, the games against Arsenal, the games against Juventus, the games against Barcelona. He is a terrific manager. He single handedly turned us into one of the most feared clubs in Europe and you cannot deny that.
I didn't report stats in a biased way, if anyone does that, it's you. Hypocrite.
Saying he doesn't deserve any credit for it is just stupid. He doesn't deserve credit for beating Juventus and Chelsea to get to the final?
Rafa, with Liverpool, pulled off many famous nights in Europe. Including the 4-0 win over Real Madrid, the 1-0 win over Madrid on their own turf, the 2-0 win over Inter Milan, the 1-0 win over Inter Milan on their own turf. The games against Chelsea, the games against Arsenal, the games against Juventus, the games against Barcelona. He is a terrific manager. He single handedly turned us into one of the most feared clubs in Europe and you cannot deny that.
I didn't report stats in a biased way, if anyone does that, it's you. Hypocrite.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
Yeah, sorry, I forgot how popular a place to live Merseyside is for multi millionaires.Jay wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:
That's exactly the fucking point! Why do you think he still lives there??
Why not? He loves the place, I see no reason why he should move his family and his daughters, who have both lived here since they were about 6 and 4, back to Spain when they are settled in England.
Scott wrote:He didn't have a mare in Istanbul, he made a mistake tactically, then rectified it in the second half by bringing Hamann on. It made all the difference as he was able to contain Kaka. Once Kaka was marked out of the game, they could do little to damage us.
Saying he doesn't deserve any credit for it is just stupid. He doesn't deserve credit for beating Juventus and Chelsea to get to the final?
Rafa, with Liverpool, pulled off many famous nights in Europe. Including the 4-0 win over Real Madrid, the 1-0 win over Madrid on their own turf, the 2-0 win over Inter Milan, the 1-0 win over Inter Milan on their own turf. The games against Chelsea, the games against Arsenal, the games against Juventus, the games against Barcelona. He is a terrific manager. He single handedly turned us into one of the most feared clubs in Europe and you cannot deny that.
I didn't report stats in a biased way, if anyone does that, it's you. Hypocrite.
What about that chance that Shevchenko had? That's nothing to do with Benitez. What about the referee incorrectly giving Liverpool a penalty? What about the referee allowing Dudek to encroach on all the penalties? They're all things Benitez had no control over which happened to go his way. Honestly, he was utterly shite that season as a manager, not even the best team in Merseyside, he was only successful thanks to things totally out of his control.
He deserves credit for knocking out Juventus in the Quarter Final (although Juventus shouldn't even have been there for match fixing), but don't ask me to credit him for the ghost goal win, because I won't do that.
He deserves a whole hell of a lot more credit for reaching the Final in 2007, where he actually got his tactics right, and players he signed were important. Saying that, the wins against Inter and Real Madrid you mention were farcical, in 3 of the games, your opposition was killed by the referee early on, and Liverpool took advantage of that. Arsenal, again, you got a penalty that should never have been which sent you through. More things which are out of his control.
You sure as fuck weren't one of the most feared sides in Europe once luck started to turn against Benitez, I'll tell you that much. And his next job was a spectacular failure as well.
Guest- Guest
I doubt a manager has total control on a football pitch.
Guest- Guest
You're just an incredibly bitter individual who can't see past his own ignorance. I feel sorry for you and everyone who has to live with you.
Mustangt125-
- Posts : 5335
Fucking knocked out of the FA cup in the 4th round, drew Arsenal away.
9 shots on target to 3. Lost 2-0.....Szczesny man of the match for Arsenal with a 9.9
9 shots on target to 3. Lost 2-0.....Szczesny man of the match for Arsenal with a 9.9
Mustangt125-
- Posts : 5335
Alright for those of you with FIFA so far.....which of our players has the best face? Not in game face, but when youre looking at their stats, it's a real pic of them.
My vote easily goes to Martin Kelly. He looks like a badass. Followed by Carroll.
My vote easily goes to Martin Kelly. He looks like a badass. Followed by Carroll.
Guest- Guest
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Yeah, sorry, I forgot how popular a place to live Merseyside is for multi millionaires.Jay wrote:
Why not? He loves the place, I see no reason why he should move his family and his daughters, who have both lived here since they were about 6 and 4, back to Spain when they are settled in England.Scott wrote:He didn't have a mare in Istanbul, he made a mistake tactically, then rectified it in the second half by bringing Hamann on. It made all the difference as he was able to contain Kaka. Once Kaka was marked out of the game, they could do little to damage us.
Saying he doesn't deserve any credit for it is just stupid. He doesn't deserve credit for beating Juventus and Chelsea to get to the final?
Rafa, with Liverpool, pulled off many famous nights in Europe. Including the 4-0 win over Real Madrid, the 1-0 win over Madrid on their own turf, the 2-0 win over Inter Milan, the 1-0 win over Inter Milan on their own turf. The games against Chelsea, the games against Arsenal, the games against Juventus, the games against Barcelona. He is a terrific manager. He single handedly turned us into one of the most feared clubs in Europe and you cannot deny that.
I didn't report stats in a biased way, if anyone does that, it's you. Hypocrite.
What about that chance that Shevchenko had? That's nothing to do with Benitez. What about the referee incorrectly giving Liverpool a penalty? What about the referee allowing Dudek to encroach on all the penalties? They're all things Benitez had no control over which happened to go his way. Honestly, he was utterly shite that season as a manager, not even the best team in Merseyside, he was only successful thanks to things totally out of his control.
He deserves credit for knocking out Juventus in the Quarter Final (although Juventus shouldn't even have been there for match fixing), but don't ask me to credit him for the ghost goal win, because I won't do that.
He deserves a whole hell of a lot more credit for reaching the Final in 2007, where he actually got his tactics right, and players he signed were important. Saying that, the wins against Inter and Real Madrid you mention were farcical, in 3 of the games, your opposition was killed by the referee early on, and Liverpool took advantage of that. Arsenal, again, you got a penalty that should never have been which sent you through. More things which are out of his control.
You sure as fuck weren't one of the most feared sides in Europe once luck started to turn against Benitez, I'll tell you that much. And his next job was a spectacular failure as well.
More and more Liverpool hate and complete bullshit.
You always seem to find things that Liverpool should have had against them, but nothing that should have went for them. Just because we won it 5 times you just cant handle that fact in your small minded little world, are you actually for real or are you locked up somewhere with Liverpool posters all over your room, and they let you play with the internet all day. Do you study everything that goes for Liverpool.
His first season in charge with not a very good squad and Rafa wins the Champion's League when it took Fergie what 12 years and you just cant handle this. I bet even fucking Fergie could not have won the Champions League with that team and squad.
RAFA BENITEZ
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
Any competent manager could have won the Champions League if everything went for him like it did Benitez. Most of them wouldn't have been 3-0 down by half time though.
lvrpl4life-
- Posts : 832
ResurrectionRooney wrote:What about that chance that Shevchenko had? That's nothing to do with Benitez. What about the referee incorrectly giving Liverpool a penalty? What about the referee allowing Dudek to encroach on all the penalties? They're all things Benitez had no control over which happened to go his way. Honestly, he was utterly shite that season as a manager, not even the best team in Merseyside, he was only successful thanks to things totally out of his control.
He deserves credit for knocking out Juventus in the Quarter Final (although Juventus shouldn't even have been there for match fixing), but don't ask me to credit him for the ghost goal win, because I won't do that.
He deserves a whole hell of a lot more credit for reaching the Final in 2007, where he actually got his tactics right, and players he signed were important. Saying that, the wins against Inter and Real Madrid you mention were farcical, in 3 of the games, your opposition was killed by the referee early on, and Liverpool took advantage of that. Arsenal, again, you got a penalty that should never have been which sent you through. More things which are out of his control.
You sure as fuck weren't one of the most feared sides in Europe once luck started to turn against Benitez, I'll tell you that much. And his next job was a spectacular failure as well.
Right I have had enough of this.
We were 3-0 down at half time. Kaka was pulling our team apart. Rafa made the decision to put Hamann on and man-mark Kaka to take him out of the game. Due to this we scored the first goal, got some momentum and got another 2. Regardless of luck or black magic or whatever you want to call it, it is still regarded as one of the best CL finals ever. A true underdog story, and Rafa made the tactical changes to help us win.
Absolute bullshit to the bolded part. Dismissing those results is absolutely ridiculous. We were the better team in every single one of those games (especially the Madrid games) as that was our best season in a long time. We were one of the most feared teams in Europe at the time. We had Gerrard and Torres at their peak who were terrifying for defenders to deal with. We had Alonso dictating the tempo of the game and setting up goals and we had Masch covering the defenders and breaking up attacks. In defence, Carra was an absolute rock - only 2005 was his better season in recent years. Then we also have Reina who was playing like the best goalkeeper in the world - almost untouchable.
So i don't really think anyone buys that comment of yours. The spine of our team was incredible and we put yourselves to the sword twice that season too - quite comfortably might I add.
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Any competent manager could have won the Champions League if everything went for him like it did Benitez. Most of them wouldn't have been 3-0 down by half time though.
I still believe we came home with a fifth CL title that night though?
Like I said above, coming from 3-0 down to win on penalties was one of the greatest achievements of Liverpool's history. Some silly Manc on a forum isn't going to convince anyone otherwise. Perhaps try writing a book? Maybe you will reach a larger audience.
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
lvrpl4life wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:What about that chance that Shevchenko had? That's nothing to do with Benitez. What about the referee incorrectly giving Liverpool a penalty? What about the referee allowing Dudek to encroach on all the penalties? They're all things Benitez had no control over which happened to go his way. Honestly, he was utterly shite that season as a manager, not even the best team in Merseyside, he was only successful thanks to things totally out of his control.
He deserves credit for knocking out Juventus in the Quarter Final (although Juventus shouldn't even have been there for match fixing), but don't ask me to credit him for the ghost goal win, because I won't do that.
He deserves a whole hell of a lot more credit for reaching the Final in 2007, where he actually got his tactics right, and players he signed were important. Saying that, the wins against Inter and Real Madrid you mention were farcical, in 3 of the games, your opposition was killed by the referee early on, and Liverpool took advantage of that. Arsenal, again, you got a penalty that should never have been which sent you through. More things which are out of his control.
You sure as fuck weren't one of the most feared sides in Europe once luck started to turn against Benitez, I'll tell you that much. And his next job was a spectacular failure as well.
Right I have had enough of this.
We were 3-0 down at half time. Kaka was pulling our team apart. Rafa made the decision to put Hamann on and man-mark Kaka to take him out of the game. Due to this we scored the first goal, got some momentum and got another 2. Regardless of luck or black magic or whatever you want to call it, it is still regarded as one of the best CL finals ever. A true underdog story, and Rafa made the tactical changes to help us win.
Absolute bullshit to the bolded part. Dismissing those results is absolutely ridiculous. We were the better team in every single one of those games (especially the Madrid games) as that was our best season in a long time. We were one of the most feared teams in Europe at the time. We had Gerrard and Torres at their peak who were terrifying for defenders to deal with. We had Alonso dictating the tempo of the game and setting up goals and we had Masch covering the defenders and breaking up attacks. In defence, Carra was an absolute rock - only 2005 was his better season in recent years. Then we also have Reina who was playing like the best goalkeeper in the world - almost untouchable.
So i don't really think anyone buys that comment of yours. The spine of our team was incredible and we put yourselves to the sword twice that season too - quite comfortably might I add.
Yes it is regarded as one of the great CL Finals, but that doesn't mean it was great management. If his tactics weren't so shit in the first place you wouldn't have been 3-0 - or do we just disregard the first half in favour of 6 minutes in the 2nd?
If it wasn't down to luck, it was purely his ability as a manager, why did he never do it again? Why didn't you go out against Milan in Athens and fire another 3 goals past them? And then another 3 in the second half?
It's no wonder you looked like the better team when the opposition were being reduced to 10 men or being effectively knocked out of the tournament with only 20 minutes of the second leg gone, thanks to illegal goals and penalties.
When you 'put us to the sword' we were down to 10 men again (an advantaged Liverpool got in over 25% of their League games in 2008/09), in the first game we were missing our best player, and in the second we were very complacent considering the League had already been wrapped up.
ResurrectionRooney wrote:Any competent manager could have won the Champions League if everything went for him like it did Benitez. Most of them wouldn't have been 3-0 down by half time though.
I still believe we came home with a fifth CL title that night though?
Like I said above, coming from 3-0 down to win on penalties was one of the greatest achievements of Liverpool's history. Some silly Manc on a forum isn't going to convince anyone otherwise. Perhaps try writing a book? Maybe you will reach a larger audience.[/quote]
I know that it is considered a great achievement, but can't you see that it is wrong for you to dismiss the first half and only consider the 2nd? Let's not forget, all that this tactical genius Benitez did was get it to a penalty shootout.
lvrpl4life-
- Posts : 832
The 2007 final - Milan played a different game and unfortunately we couldn't break them down and win the game. We got the goal back late on but it wasn't to be.
In 2005 - we were 3-0 down due to Milan outplaying us in every position. We were too confident from the wins over Leverkusen, Juve and Chelsea. Conceding several early goals killed us off and we couldn't play our game at all.
Rafa played arguably his strongest starting XI for that CL Final. Kewell, when fit, was an amazing player. Unfortunately he had an awful game and resulted in him coming off with an injury. Every other position was filled with our strongest players.
Obviously tactics change depending on which team you face, but they won't have changed that much compared to Chelsea (who were on fire that season) and Juve who had a strong team (attackers especially).
In 2005 - we were 3-0 down due to Milan outplaying us in every position. We were too confident from the wins over Leverkusen, Juve and Chelsea. Conceding several early goals killed us off and we couldn't play our game at all.
Rafa played arguably his strongest starting XI for that CL Final. Kewell, when fit, was an amazing player. Unfortunately he had an awful game and resulted in him coming off with an injury. Every other position was filled with our strongest players.
Obviously tactics change depending on which team you face, but they won't have changed that much compared to Chelsea (who were on fire that season) and Juve who had a strong team (attackers especially).
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I like how RR mentions that we shouldn't have had that penalty, yet completely disregards the fact we should've had one in the first half anyway just before AC Milan's second goal. Everything went our way did it? 
ResurrectionRooney-
- Posts : 17681
Supports : United
That's a good point actually, even in that second game the referee gave you a goal late on even though Kuyt was offside. You lost that game by 1 goal, and should have lost it by 2, despite Benitez using far better tactics than 2005. Shows how much luck played a role in it.lvrpl4life wrote:The 2007 final - Milan played a different game and unfortunately we couldn't break them down and win the game. We got the goal back late on but it wasn't to be.
In 2005 - we were 3-0 down due to Milan outplaying us in every position. We were too confident from the wins over Leverkusen, Juve and Chelsea. Conceding several early goals killed us off and we couldn't play our game at all.
Rafa played arguably his strongest starting XI for that CL Final. Kewell, when fit, was an amazing player. Unfortunately he had an awful game and resulted in him coming off with an injury. Every other position was filled with our strongest players.
Obviously tactics change depending on which team you face, but they won't have changed that much compared to Chelsea (who were on fire that season) and Juve who had a strong team (attackers especially).
Playing your strongest XI regardless of the opposition = shit tactics.
Yeah, it did, your 2nd goal was offside as well.Scott wrote:I like how RR mentions that we shouldn't have had that penalty, yet completely disregards the fact we should've had one in the first half anyway just before AC Milan's second goal. Everything went our way did it?
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No it wasn't.
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ResurrectionRooney wrote:Any competent manager could have won the Champions League if everything went for him like it did Benitez. Most of them wouldn't have been 3-0 down by half time though.
samiz-
- Posts : 3058
Age : 27
Location : Manchester
Alan wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:Any competent manager could have won the Champions League if everything went for him like it did Benitez. Most of them wouldn't have been 3-0 down by half time though.
Theo Filippo-
- Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
Posts : 21636
Age : 30
Alan wrote:ResurrectionRooney wrote:Any competent manager could have won the Champions League if everything went for him like it did Benitez. Most of them wouldn't have been 3-0 down by half time though.
GOLAAAAA
Scouser_Dave-
- Posts : 7498
Is that his brother with the Def Jam top on? They look like twins.
Guest- Guest
Filippo Inzaghi wrote:Alan wrote:
GOLAAAAA
samiz-
- Posts : 3058
Age : 27
Location : Manchester
Theo Filippo-
- Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
Posts : 21636
Age : 30
Looks like a pedophile on the bottom oneMr Leiva wrote:
Clear evidence of cheatingAlan wrote:Filippo Inzaghi wrote:
GOLAAAAA
