The Moyes Delusion

OK, so there was a discussion in another thread between me and Alan, I said that a good thing for Everton to do would be to 'sack that over-rated, dour, miserable, Scottish, trophiless manager instead of buying into the hype about him being some kind of God.' Al pointed out that he had won the Second Division over 10 years ago with Preston North End, this was my response

"He's been at Everton, a club around 7-8th in the country for over 9 years now, in that time the likes of Birmingham, Portsmouth, Manchester City, Middlesborough, Tottenham, even Arsenal and Liverpool, have all won trophies. His biggest achievements have been getting 4th place and failing to qualify for the Champions League, only English club ever to do that so well done David, and beating a Manchester United B-Team, on penalties in the FA Cup Semi Final by questioning the integrity of the referee and influencing his decisions using the media (you've seen the video where Ferguson goes fucking mental and loses his balloon, look at the decision before it). After they cheated their way to the Final they lost quite comfortably despite effectively having the referee gift them a goal by another incorrect decision.

As for a trophy at Preston, fair enough, that was a good achievement, winning the 3rd tier of English football over 10 years ago. While technically there was a trophy given out for it, it was only winning one division of a competition, rather than the competition itself. It's only a trophy in the same way the Play-Off winners get a trophy."

Didn't want to derail that thread so here's another one. Please don't derail this thread by concentrating on irrelevant points like 'Ferguson once criticised a referee' or 'The second division is a competition', the first one is a criticism based on who's saying it and the second one is irrelevant, it's not an important competition at any rate.

Does anyone want to defend this guy, or know why they rate him so highly?

People rate him highly because hes never moaning, constantly has an injury hit squad, low transfer budget (if any) but gets Everton to perform consistantly every year. Imo hes a very underrated manager.

I agree with the Overrated point of view.

Id like to see him replace harry when he inevitably takes the england job, Moyes has done very well with the budget hes had and it would be very interesting to see what he can do with decent funds.

XxBradKennedyxX wrote:Id like to see him replace harry when he inevitably takes the england job, Moyes has done very well with the budget hes had and it would be very interesting to see what he can do with decent funds.

What had he done with that budget that is so exceptional?

To be fair to him the only reason Everton are 7-8th every season is because he is good at working with a small budget and a small squad, but I doubt he would be able to do it at a big club like United, (Everton fans I know say United is the only club he would leave for) the few times he has had decent amounts of money to spend he has signed flops, other than Fellaini.

I will accept your opinion but can you change the poll because the two options are quite pathetic tbh.

I admit he is slightly overrated but what he has done with Everton in the last few years is amazing. Lets remember Everton have very little money but they still challenge for the Europa/Champions league pretty much every season.

Easy supporting utd isn't it

Jay wrote:To be fair to him the only reason Everton are 7-8th every season is because he is good at working with a small budget and a small squad, but I doubt he would be able to do it at a big club like United, (Everton fans I know say United is the only club he would leave for) the few times he has had decent amounts of money to spend he has signed flops, other than Fellaini.

Like who?

He signed Yakubu, who was absolutely fantastic in his first 2 seasons - should coup a couple of million back, looking for around £6M.

John Heitinga - World Cup rightback for £6M

Andy Johnson - Bought for £8 Million sold for £11.

Diniyar Bilyaletdinov - £9 paid up front, vital goals at times however yet to have a stint in his best position.

I would say he's an under-rated manager. He has a small squad to work with, very small squad and he develops his players well. He is usually hit with bad injury's season after season but still manages to get into the top 10 of the league.

They finished 1 place under Liverpool despite the fact that they have a MUCH bigger squad and financial backing than Everton.

Overrated, his Everton teams of the past few years have been good enough to challenge for 4th but they always seem to have this total dead period where they can get no points, he usually fixes it by Feburary but by then it's too late, if he had more cash to work with would Everton perform better? I definitely think so, but I also think that in the years pre-Man City take over they had a window to get into the CL proper and missed it.

The year Moyes came, Everton had finished just above the bottom three and were one of the favourites to be relegated. He took them to fourth place. Now they've finished in the top 8 since then, with the exception of one season. This is with a low transfer budget and probably the most injury-plagued side in the league.

He might be a bit overrated, but it's a joke to think he's extremely overrated.

I don't see whats so overrated about him at all. As many have already pointed out, he's managed to keep Everton as an established Premier League club (Challenging for European spots in most seasons) for god knows how long on a very low budget and with injury hit squads. Don't really see what you're getting at RR.

Jay wrote:To be fair to him the only reason Everton are 7-8th every season is because he is good at working with a small budget and a small squad, but I doubt he would be able to do it at a big club like United, (Everton fans I know say United is the only club he would leave for) the few times he has had decent amounts of money to spend he has signed flops, other than Fellaini.

He's not that good, look at his squad, which teams does he finish above that are better than his, or have lower budgets?

Splashy wrote:I will accept your opinion but can you change the poll because the two options are quite pathetic tbh.

No, can't change the poll, that would be unfair.

I admit he is slightly overrated but what he has done with Everton in the last few years is amazing. Lets remember Everton have very little money but they still challenge for the Europa/Champions league pretty much every season.

Shall we have a look at them in Europe?

2001-02 - Didn't qualify
2002-03 - Didn't qualify
2003-04 - Didn't qualify, finished 1 place above relegation
2004-05 - Qualified for Champions League qualifiers, dumped out at first opportunity, dumped out of UEFA Cup at first opportunity as well
2005-06 - Didn't qualify
2006-07 - Qualified, not on merit, by finishing 6th and the Cup Finalists having qualified already, dumped out by first decent opposition
2007-08 - Qualified on merit, dumped out in first tie
2008-09 - Qualified on merit, dumped out in round of 32
2009-10 - Didn't qualify
2010-11 - Didn't qualify

So they've never qualified for the Champions League under him, they've never achieved anything significant in Europe, and they've only qualified on merit to even play in the UEFA Cup/Europa League 3 times in 9 full seasons.

Amazing.

Moorzy2911 wrote:

Jay wrote:To be fair to him the only reason Everton are 7-8th every season is because he is good at working with a small budget and a small squad, but I doubt he would be able to do it at a big club like United, (Everton fans I know say United is the only club he would leave for) the few times he has had decent amounts of money to spend he has signed flops, other than Fellaini.

Like who?

He signed Yakubu, who was absolutely fantastic in his first 2 seasons - should coup a couple of million back, looking for around £6M.

John Heitinga - World Cup rightback for £6M

Andy Johnson - Bought for £8 Million sold for £11.

Diniyar Bilyaletdinov - £9 paid up front, vital goals at times however yet to have a stint in his best position.

Yakubu - £11.25 million for 1 good season, unless you count 5 goals as a good season, yeah, by my reckoning, £11.25 million for 1 good year isn't a great deal.

Johnson - 2 decent seasons, never prolific, got his money back though, not a bad deal

Bily - Hasn't lived up to his price tag, at all.

How'd you edit the poll?

I didn't, I'm fucking outraged.

The commies are about.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

I admit he is slightly overrated but what he has done with Everton in the last few years is amazing. Lets remember Everton have very little money but they still challenge for the Europa/Champions league pretty much every season.

Shall we have a look at them in Europe?

2001-02 - Didn't qualify
2002-03 - Didn't qualify
2003-04 - Didn't qualify, finished 1 place above relegation
2004-05 - Qualified for Champions League qualifiers, dumped out at first opportunity, dumped out of UEFA Cup at first opportunity as well
2005-06 - Didn't qualify
2006-07 - Qualified, not on merit, by finishing 6th and the Cup Finalists having qualified already, dumped out by first decent opposition
2007-08 - Qualified on merit, dumped out in first tie
2008-09 - Qualified on merit, dumped out in round of 32
2009-10 - Didn't qualify
2010-11 - Didn't qualify

So they've never qualified for the Champions League under him, they've never achieved anything significant in Europe, and they've only qualified on merit to even play in the UEFA Cup/Europa League 3 times in 9 full seasons.

Amazing.

That's why I said "challenge", He is still a good manager and he only has a small and injury prone squad to work with, If he had Real Mardid's or Man United's squad I bet he would do great in the CL and in the league

Mods ruining threads again? They decided to edit mine one time as well.

Hardly ruining the thread.

Of course it is. What is the point in having us make our own threads if they are just going to edit them? Funny the mod doesn't post here either.

The 'voice of the little guy' he calls himself. Maybe if Stalin was a little guy.

I think he has done a great job at Everton with the resources he has had, and to be fair to him i would like to see him with a club with some cash to spend to see how he gets on. And after that maybe people could have a better idea of how overrated or underrated or whatever he is.

And i said he won a trophy at Preston, because i could not believe how a man of your so called perfection would have missed this.

James wrote:Of course it is. What is the point in having us make our own threads if they are just going to edit them? Funny the mod doesn't post here either.

What's the point of a poll if there's one option in it?

SBSP wrote:

James wrote:Of course it is. What is the point in having us make our own threads if they are just going to edit them? Funny the mod doesn't post here either.

What's the point of a poll if there's one option in it?

There were two options.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

SBSP wrote:

James wrote:Of course it is. What is the point in having us make our own threads if they are just going to edit them? Funny the mod doesn't post here either.

What's the point of a poll if there's one option in it?

There were two options.

Basically one. Same thing as threads that have Yes as both options.

Taking everything into consideration, my rating of his management ability would be 'decent'.

Liverpool fc 4 ever wrote:I think he has done a great job at Everton with the resources he has had, and to be fair to him i would like to see him with a club with some cash to spend to see how he gets on. And after that maybe people could have a better idea of how overrated or underrated or whatever he is.

And i said he won a trophy at Preston, because i could not believe how a man of your so called perfection would have missed this.

I don't consider it a proper trophy worthy of recognition, since it's awarded for finishing 25th in a competition (the Football League) and I've never claimed to be perfect.