Best player of all time

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:

It's actually a very valid way of mocking your argument.

You think a player who has been brilliant for 60+ games a season for a number of years can't be the best because he doesn't perform in about 7 cup games?

Compared to other greats, they've done it on both levels to be considered kings of football. Messi is a beast but to take crown of best player ever he need to step it on the international level.

Compare Messi to Zizou, both World Class Players with amazing ability, amazing club players but Messi hasn't done what Zidane has in the greatest stage of football. I'd pick Zidane to me.

Torres on other hand is no where near cryuff, no skills like cryuff, not a great club player like cryuff, didn't do anything in WC like Cryuff..simple.

I think Messi could still be considered the best ever even if he doesn't win the WC, to be fair, he has an incompetent team, and he's done everything else.

To me best player is classified as who played the best, not who won the most.

To me Spencer is one of the greatest if not the greatest South American strikers in history, yet he never even played in the World Cup.

Spencer is best in South America because of what he done in South America.

Besides that, let me ask you, considering he was an even match for Pelé in his time, what other striker in the world could you compare to him?

Compare Spencer to or rank next to?

Compare his team to Messi? Ok. He had Raul. He had Ronaldo. He had Figo. He had Beckham. He had Casillas. He had Roberto Carlos.

Need me to keep going? Real Madrid were not a bunch of no mark players.

Maradona spent 10 seasons in Europe and won the Champions league zero times. Messi has played 7 seasons(6 if you don't count the season he played 9 times) and won the Champions League 3 times.

Another question George:
A player like Messi will play around 60 club games a season and what, 10 internationals? Why is it that you place more weight on the smaller amount of games? I'm baffled by that.

Fine Shagger wrote:Compare his team to Messi? Ok. He had Raul. He had Ronaldo. He had Figo. He had Beckham. He had Casillas. He had Roberto Carlos.

Need me to keep going? Real Madrid were not a bunch of no mark players.

Maradona spent 10 seasons in Europe and won the Champions league zero times. Messi has played 7 seasons(6 if you don't count the season he played 9 times) and won the Champions League 3 times.

Another question George:
A player like Messi will play around 60 club games a season and what, 10 internationals? Why is it that you place more weight on the smaller amount of games? I'm baffled by that.

So you think that Real Madrid team can match Barcelona of today? But compare his Juventus team to Barcelona as well...RM was just a big name player not a team like Barcelona. Zidane would excel immaculately if he was in Barca at the moment. Zidane could have easily won 2 more CL but got to finals and lost.

When did CL become 60 club games? WC shits on CL no matter what you try to say. Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer, Zidane etc all WC performers. Messi himself knows he needs to perform at WC to silence critics, many legends have come out and said this as well. It's like am the only one who believes WC is the most important thing even if just 10 games.

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:
Compared to other greats, they've done it on both levels to be considered kings of football. Messi is a beast but to take crown of best player ever he need to step it on the international level.

Compare Messi to Zizou, both World Class Players with amazing ability, amazing club players but Messi hasn't done what Zidane has in the greatest stage of football. I'd pick Zidane to me.

Torres on other hand is no where near cryuff, no skills like cryuff, not a great club player like cryuff, didn't do anything in WC like Cryuff..simple.

I think Messi could still be considered the best ever even if he doesn't win the WC, to be fair, he has an incompetent team, and he's done everything else.

To me best player is classified as who played the best, not who won the most.

To me Spencer is one of the greatest if not the greatest South American strikers in history, yet he never even played in the World Cup.

Spencer is best in South America because of what he done in South America.

Besides that, let me ask you, considering he was an even match for Pelé in his time, what other striker in the world could you compare to him?

Compare Spencer to or rank next to?

Rank next to.

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

I think Messi could still be considered the best ever even if he doesn't win the WC, to be fair, he has an incompetent team, and he's done everything else.

To me best player is classified as who played the best, not who won the most.

To me Spencer is one of the greatest if not the greatest South American strikers in history, yet he never even played in the World Cup.

Spencer is best in South America because of what he done in South America.

Besides that, let me ask you, considering he was an even match for Pelé in his time, what other striker in the world could you compare to him?

Compare Spencer to or rank next to?

Rank next to.

Eusebio..

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Compare his team to Messi? Ok. He had Raul. He had Ronaldo. He had Figo. He had Beckham. He had Casillas. He had Roberto Carlos.

Need me to keep going? Real Madrid were not a bunch of no mark players.

Maradona spent 10 seasons in Europe and won the Champions league zero times. Messi has played 7 seasons(6 if you don't count the season he played 9 times) and won the Champions League 3 times.

Another question George:
A player like Messi will play around 60 club games a season and what, 10 internationals? Why is it that you place more weight on the smaller amount of games? I'm baffled by that.

So you think that Real Madrid team can match Barcelona of today? But compare his Juventus team to Barcelona as well...RM was just a big name player not a team like Barcelona. Zidane would excel immaculately if he was in Barca at the moment. Zidane could have easily won 2 more CL but got to finals and lost.

When did CL become 60 club games? WC shits on CL no matter what you try to say. Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer, Zidane etc all WC performers. Messi himself knows he needs to perform at WC to silence critics, many legends have come out and said this as well. It's like am the only one who believes WC is the most important thing even if just 10 games.

I'm not saying that Real Madrid then are better than Barcelona are now, I'm saying that it's moronic to imply Zidane didn't win more because of his team.

You compare Zidane's teams yet whenever I talk of the quality of Messi's Argentina team being below that of Maradona's I'm sure you'd say it was wrong, no?

Yeah he lost in the final, well done Zinedine.

I never said it was 60 games for the Champions League and I hope you know that otherwise you are quite the fuck up. I'm saying that club performances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> international performances. They make up a far greater percentage of a players career and should be judged as such.

Regardless, Messi performed well in his last world cup.

Who are these legends? Pelé and his expert opinion?

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:You place too much emphasis on international football George.

1 question:

Is Messi better than Maradona? Messi is better, come back and argue otherwise when Maradona wins a Champions League.

WC is the biggest competition in football, any player would want to win WC than CL. CL is forgotten after 2-3 years.

Messi needs to win the most prestigious trophy..simples!

Tell that to the Liverpool fans They love to boast about all their trophies from the 70s

Fine Shagger wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Compare his team to Messi? Ok. He had Raul. He had Ronaldo. He had Figo. He had Beckham. He had Casillas. He had Roberto Carlos.

Need me to keep going? Real Madrid were not a bunch of no mark players.

Maradona spent 10 seasons in Europe and won the Champions league zero times. Messi has played 7 seasons(6 if you don't count the season he played 9 times) and won the Champions League 3 times.

Another question George:
A player like Messi will play around 60 club games a season and what, 10 internationals? Why is it that you place more weight on the smaller amount of games? I'm baffled by that.

So you think that Real Madrid team can match Barcelona of today? But compare his Juventus team to Barcelona as well...RM was just a big name player not a team like Barcelona. Zidane would excel immaculately if he was in Barca at the moment. Zidane could have easily won 2 more CL but got to finals and lost.

When did CL become 60 club games? WC shits on CL no matter what you try to say. Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer, Zidane etc all WC performers. Messi himself knows he needs to perform at WC to silence critics, many legends have come out and said this as well. It's like am the only one who believes WC is the most important thing even if just 10 games.

I'm not saying that Real Madrid then are better than Barcelona are now, I'm saying that it's moronic to imply Zidane didn't win more because of his team.

You compare Zidane's teams yet whenever I talk of the quality of Messi's Argentina team being below that of Maradona's I'm sure you'd say it was wrong, no?

Yeah he lost in the final, well done Zinedine.

I never said it was 60 games for the Champions League and I hope you know that otherwise you are quite the fuck up. I'm saying that club performances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> international performances. They make up a far greater percentage of a players career and should be judged as such.

Regardless, Messi performed well in his last world cup.

Who are these legends? Pelé and his expert opinion?

You blamed Messi's performances on his Argentine team-mates ?

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:
Spencer is best in South America because of what he done in South America.

Besides that, let me ask you, considering he was an even match for Pelé in his time, what other striker in the world could you compare to him?

Compare Spencer to or rank next to?

Rank next to.

Eusebio..

I agree, that's one...

Neither of them won the World Cup, yet they are considered two of the best strikers in history?

Fine Shagger wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Compare his team to Messi? Ok. He had Raul. He had Ronaldo. He had Figo. He had Beckham. He had Casillas. He had Roberto Carlos.

Need me to keep going? Real Madrid were not a bunch of no mark players.

Maradona spent 10 seasons in Europe and won the Champions league zero times. Messi has played 7 seasons(6 if you don't count the season he played 9 times) and won the Champions League 3 times.

Another question George:
A player like Messi will play around 60 club games a season and what, 10 internationals? Why is it that you place more weight on the smaller amount of games? I'm baffled by that.

So you think that Real Madrid team can match Barcelona of today? But compare his Juventus team to Barcelona as well...RM was just a big name player not a team like Barcelona. Zidane would excel immaculately if he was in Barca at the moment. Zidane could have easily won 2 more CL but got to finals and lost.

When did CL become 60 club games? WC shits on CL no matter what you try to say. Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer, Zidane etc all WC performers. Messi himself knows he needs to perform at WC to silence critics, many legends have come out and said this as well. It's like am the only one who believes WC is the most important thing even if just 10 games.

I'm not saying that Real Madrid then are better than Barcelona are now, I'm saying that it's moronic to imply Zidane didn't win more because of his team.

You compare Zidane's teams yet whenever I talk of the quality of Messi's Argentina team being below that of Maradona's I'm sure you'd say it was wrong, no?

Yeah he lost in the final, well done Zinedine.

I never said it was 60 games for the Champions League and I hope you know that otherwise you are quite the fuck up. I'm saying that club performances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> international performances. They make up a far greater percentage of a players career and should be judged as such.

Regardless, Messi performed well in his last world cup.

Zidane would have won more finals if he had a team like Barca...that's idiotic to say otherwise... You acting like it's Zidane fault they didn't win the final, have you even seen games of him in Juve? Zidane got to finals with Juve and Real, with a team like Barca he'd be winning that competition in and out.

I never conpared anything about Messi team and Maradona team on this forum before. But I will tell you this, that team is not great compared to team Messi has today. Only beasts were Valdano, Ruggeri and Batista...rest where....
Before was Kempes, Pasa...Ardiles..others..

Zidane done amazing in club not much divider between him and Messi in club level. Same with Maradona done even a more difficult job than Messi in club football.

It's not like these players weren't good at club as well, it's just the main divider after club is WC.

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

Besides that, let me ask you, considering he was an even match for Pelé in his time, what other striker in the world could you compare to him?

Compare Spencer to or rank next to?

Rank next to.

Eusebio..

I agree, that's one...

Neither of them won the World Cup, yet they are considered two of the best strikers in history?

Not top 2 best but one of the bests..

Fuck this. If you think there isn't much between Zidane and Messi at club level I'm not even going to discuss it. Get your eyes/head/whatever checked out ASAP. The statistics say it all in this case.

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:
Compare Spencer to or rank next to?

Rank next to.

Eusebio..

I agree, that's one...

Neither of them won the World Cup, yet they are considered two of the best strikers in history?

Not top 2 best but one of the bests..

What's your list of top ten strikers on history?

Filippo Inzaghi wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:You place too much emphasis on international football George.

1 question:

Is Messi better than Maradona? Messi is better, come back and argue otherwise when Maradona wins a Champions League.

WC is the biggest competition in football, any player would want to win WC than CL. CL is forgotten after 2-3 years.

Messi needs to win the most prestigious trophy..simples!

Tell that to the Liverpool fans They love to boast about all their trophies from the 70s

What their 4 League titles 1 FA Cup 2 European Cups 2 Uefa Cups and 1 Super Cup. Dont you start coming out with your absolute Pish, winning the European Cup is still the top Honour in Club Football and you would love your club Arsenal to win it. Fuck you still cant boast about it from the 50s, until today. And at least we did not cheat our way into the top flight of English Football like some clubs did.

Fine Shagger wrote:Fuck this. If you think there isn't much between Zidane and Messi at club level I'm not even going to discuss it. Get your eyes/head/whatever checked out ASAP. The statistics say it all in this case.

Statistics say Pele>Messi

grenade187 wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Fuck this. If you think there isn't much between Zidane and Messi at club level I'm not even going to discuss it. Get your eyes/head/whatever checked out ASAP. The statistics say it all in this case.

Statistics say Pele>Messi

Those statistics aren't comparable. Messi and Zidane played in the same continent, the same league and the same European competition.

Fine Shagger wrote:Fuck this. If you think there isn't much between Zidane and Messi at club level I'm not even going to discuss it. Get your eyes/head/whatever checked out ASAP. The statistics say it all in this case.

Nos vemos. Go suck Messi's verga
But bitch why you always getting touched if someone say something about Messi? you can't stand someone say Messi can be matched......there not not a lot between Zidane and Messi at club level.....

But whatever.

Messi can be matched, just not by Zidane.

I would disagree with people saying Ronaldo(Brazilian) was as good as Messi but it would not be so laughably wrong as comparing Zidane.

Fine Shagger wrote:Messi can be matched, just not by Zidane.

I would disagree with people saying Ronaldo(Brazilian) was as good as Messi but it would not be so laughably wrong as comparing Zidane.

Who do you think can match him?

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

Rank next to.

Eusebio..

I agree, that's one...

Neither of them won the World Cup, yet they are considered two of the best strikers in history?

Not top 2 best but one of the bests..

What's your list of top ten strikers on history?

Rolo why?

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:
Eusebio..

I agree, that's one...

Neither of them won the World Cup, yet they are considered two of the best strikers in history?

Not top 2 best but one of the bests..

What's your list of top ten strikers on history?

Rolo why?

Só quero saber.

Mr Leiva wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Messi can be matched, just not by Zidane.

I would disagree with people saying Ronaldo(Brazilian) was as good as Messi but it would not be so laughably wrong as comparing Zidane.

Who do you think can match him?

Well, I think it would be debatable to say Messi is not the best of all time. I do not think there can be any logic behind saying Zidane > Messi though.

Ronaldinho, Ronaldo(x2), Henry > Zidane

Fine Shagger wrote:Messi can be matched, just not by Zidane.

I would disagree with people saying Ronaldo(Brazilian) was as good as Messi but it would not be so laughably wrong as comparing Zidane.

Messi can't be matched yet he can't win important matches for Argentina.

Messi.

Who is like Messi? no one.

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Messi can be matched, just not by Zidane.

I would disagree with people saying Ronaldo(Brazilian) was as good as Messi but it would not be so laughably wrong as comparing Zidane.

Messi can't be matched yet he can't win important matches for Argentina.

Messi.

Who is like Messi? no one.

André Santos is the best left back of all time.

Cristiano Ronaldo.

I knew when i said Zidane did it at club and International level, it would be good reading from then on. But if Messi keeps his club form up and his statistics like his last 159 games for Barca, 159 games 138 goals and 53 assists his stats records are going to be absolutely fucking scary.

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Roloman4 wrote:

I agree, that's one...

Neither of them won the World Cup, yet they are considered two of the best strikers in history?

Not top 2 best but one of the bests..

What's your list of top ten strikers on history?

Rolo why?

Só quero saber.

Puta

1. Pele
2. Ronaldo
3. Van Basten
4. Di Stefano
5. Muller
6. Baggio
7. Puskas
8. Henry
9. Rivaldo
10. Romario

Obvious bias.

Fine Shagger wrote:

chiboygeorge wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Messi can be matched, just not by Zidane.

I would disagree with people saying Ronaldo(Brazilian) was as good as Messi but it would not be so laughably wrong as comparing Zidane.

Messi can't be matched yet he can't win important matches for Argentina.

Messi.

Who is like Messi? no one.

André Santos is the best left back of all time.

If you say so.

Fine Shagger wrote:

grenade187 wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Fuck this. If you think there isn't much between Zidane and Messi at club level I'm not even going to discuss it. Get your eyes/head/whatever checked out ASAP. The statistics say it all in this case.

Statistics say Pele>Messi

Those statistics aren't comparable. Messi and Zidane played in the same continent, the same league and the same European competition.

No offense but judging by what you have said you don't know much about Zidane or his days at Juve so your opinion seems very biased.
You should not use statistics as a way to prove a player is better especially if they had different roles and positions that's the point

grenade187 wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:

grenade187 wrote:

Fine Shagger wrote:Fuck this. If you think there isn't much between Zidane and Messi at club level I'm not even going to discuss it. Get your eyes/head/whatever checked out ASAP. The statistics say it all in this case.

Statistics say Pele>Messi

Those statistics aren't comparable. Messi and Zidane played in the same continent, the same league and the same European competition.

No offense but judging by what you have said you don't know much about Zidane or his days at Juve so your opinion seems very biased.
You should not use statistics as a way to prove a player is better especially if they had different roles and positions that's the point

Nicely put man.