Yes or No.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Not all handballs are acts of cheating. It all depends on the player's intention. Are they intentionally handballing to gain an unfair advantage? If yes, then it's cheating. That's why not all handballs are punishable by yellow or red cards.

I don't think you understand that that means fuck all when it happens in the box.

This is how I break it down, quite simple actually:

Hand + Ball = Handball = Foul = not in box = Free Kick
Intention + Hand + Ball = Intentional Handball = Foul = not in Box = Yellow Card + Free Kick
Defensive Team + Hand + Ball = Defensive Handball = Foul = in the Box = Red Card + Penalty
Offensive Team + Hand + Ball = Offensive Handball = Foul = in the Box = Yellow Card + Goal Kick

Too many variables and equations, so let me simplify. First, we will assume that we know what constitutes a handball.

Any handball committed with intention is punishable with a yellow card. A handball committed (with intention or not) that denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity is punishable by a red card. A handball that is committed without intention or denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity is not punished by any card, just a direct freekick.

It does not really matter if the handball occurred in the box or not. A red card for handball is given only if it is denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

Ahly, are you actually employed as a referee? Because you're got that badly wrong. Touching the ball with the hand is never a foul unless it is intentional, irrespective of whether it denies a goalscoring opportunity. Handball usually isn't a yellow card unless it constitutes unsporting behaviour. Seriously, go and read the rules again, I'm amazed to read that post from you.

ayvee1 wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:Not all handballs are acts of cheating. It all depends on the player's intention. Are they intentionally handballing to gain an unfair advantage? If yes, then it's cheating. That's why not all handballs are punishable by yellow or red cards.

I don't think you understand that that means fuck all when it happens in the box.

This is how I break it down, quite simple actually:

Hand + Ball = Handball = Foul = not in box = Free Kick
Intention + Hand + Ball = Intentional Handball = Foul = not in Box = Yellow Card + Free Kick
Defensive Team + Hand + Ball = Defensive Handball = Foul = in the Box = Red Card + Penalty
Offensive Team + Hand + Ball = Offensive Handball = Foul = in the Box = Yellow Card + Goal Kick

Too many variables and equations, so let me simplify. First, we will assume that we know what constitutes a handball.

Any handball committed with intention is punishable with a yellow card. A handball committed (with intention or not) that denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity is punishable by a red card. A handball that is committed without intention or denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity is not punished by any card, just a direct freekick.

It does not really matter if the handball occurred in the box or not. A red card for handball is given only if it is denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

Ahly, are you actually employed as a referee? Because you're got that badly wrong. Touching the ball with the hand is never a foul unless it is intentional, irrespective of whether it denies a goalscoring opportunity. Handball usually isn't a yellow card unless it constitutes unsporting behaviour. Seriously, go and read the rules again, I'm amazed to read that post from you.

How can the referee know if it's intentional though? Only the player can know. If a defender doesn't have his arms by his side in the penalty area and the ball strikes his arm, surely it can only be a penalty, regardless of whether or not the player meant to handball it.

ahlycotc wrote:Rooney, yes I'm a referee. You are wrong by the way. It doesn't have to be intentional to be a handball. If it's intentional, it has to be a yellow card.

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:

holds an opponent
spits at an opponent
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from the place where the offence occurred (see Law 13 - Position of free kick).

Cautionable offences

A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

unsporting behaviour
dissent by word or action
persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
delaying the restart of play
failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, free kick or throw-in
entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee's permission
deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee's permission
A substitute or substituted player is cautioned if he commits any of the following three offences:

unsporting behaviour
dissent by word or action
delaying the restart of play

Handling the ball
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with
the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into
consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.)
counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an
infringement

Disciplinary sanctions
There are circumstances when a caution for unsporting behaviour is required
when a player deliberately handles the ball, e.g. when a player:
• deliberately and blatantly handles the ball to prevent an opponent gaining
possession
• attempts to score a goal by deliberately handling the ball
A player is sent off, however, if he prevents a goal or an obvious goalscoring
opportunity by deliberately handling the ball. This punishment arises not from
the act of the player deliberately handling the ball but from the unacceptable
and unfair intervention that prevented a goal being scored.
Restart of play
• Direct free kick from the position where the offence occurred (see Law 13 –
Position of free kick) or penalty kick
Outside his own penalty area, the goalkeeper has the same restrictions
on handling the ball as any other player. Inside his own penalty area, the
goalkeeper cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick
or any misconduct related to handling the ball. He can, however, be guilty of
several handling offences that incur an indirect free kick.

ahlycotc wrote:Rooney, yes I'm a referee. You are wrong by the way. It doesn't have to be intentional to be a handball. If it's intentional, it has to be a yellow card.

ahlycotc wrote:Rooney, yes I'm a referee. You are wrong by the way. It doesn't have to be intentional to be a handball. If it's intentional, it has to be a yellow card.

ahlycotc wrote:Rooney, yes I'm a referee. You are wrong by the way. It doesn't have to be intentional to be a handball. If it's intentional, it has to be a yellow card.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Jay.Davies11 wrote:It's all well and good sitting here now saying "no, I would have let it go in instead", but people forget, he had literally no time to think anything through. It was instinct. Simple as that, I would have done the same.

His instincts tell him to cheat - that just about sums him up as a person doesn't it.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:The rules haven't been changed for many years, I think you should apologise to me.

polska. wrote:Don't think anyone who says yes are denying that it's cheating.

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:Don't think anyone who says yes are denying that it's cheating.

Then there's Lux.

Gegilworld93 wrote:I would, but I wouldn't have celebrated like I won the world cup when the peno taker misses

fluffy_kittens wrote:absolutely..and its not cheating it's the rules..he gets a pk, i get a red, no cheating.

polska. wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:Don't think anyone who says yes are denying that it's cheating.

Then there's Lux.

Lux's point is that technically it's not cheating, by the rulebooks it's a foul.

fluffy_kittens wrote:absolutely..and its not cheating it's the rules..he gets a pk, i get a red, no cheating.

Cheating is intentionally getting an unfair challenge. Did Suarez intentionally handball it? Yes. Did he gain an unfair advantage? Yes. Because it was 100% going in, but now Ghana had to step 11 yards back with the possibility of missing the penalty.

Fouls can be cheating or not, it depends on the type of punishment. If the punishment fits the crime and does not give the other team an unnecessary disadvantage, then it's not cheating.

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:

ahlycotc wrote:

polska. wrote:Don't think anyone who says yes are denying that it's cheating.

Then there's Lux.

Lux's point is that technically it's not cheating, by the rulebooks it's a foul.

Cheating is intentionally getting an unfair challenge. Did Suarez intentionally handball it? Yes. Did he gain an unfair advantage? Yes. Because it was 100% going in, but now Ghana had to step 11 yards back with the possibility of missing the penalty.

Fouls can be cheating or not, it depends on the type of punishment. If the punishment fits the crime and does not give the other team an unnecessary disadvantage, then it's not cheating.

fluffy_kittens wrote:absolutely..and its not cheating it's the rules..he gets a pk, i get a red, no cheating.

You joined? The forum is now ruined.

polska. wrote:

Cheating is intentionally getting an unfair challenge. Did Suarez intentionally handball it? Yes. Did he gain an unfair advantage? Yes. Because it was 100% going in, but now Ghana had to step 11 yards back with the possibility of missing the penalty.

Fouls can be cheating or not, it depends on the type of punishment. If the punishment fits the crime and does not give the other team an unnecessary disadvantage, then it's not cheating.

We aren't going by Websters definition of what cheating is. We are going by the FIFA rulebooks. Handball is a foul, and thus should be treated as such.