Are Barcelona just Arsenal + Messi?

I've always wondered. If Messi was taken out of Barcelona would they be succesful? The amount of goals Messi creates or scores with dribbling is pretty high.


Valdes = Polish lad
Alves = Sagna
Puyol + Pique = Djourou + Koscielny
Abidal/Maxell = Clichy
Biscuit = Song
Xavi = Fabregas
Iniesta = Nasri
Pedro = Arshavin??
Villa = RVP

Which means Walcott plays where Messi would. If these 2 swapped teams would Arsenal have success like Barcelona and would Barcelona be nearly men just like Arsenal?

Discuss.

EDIT: The = is not players ability, just general positions within the team. Both play a basic 4-3-3/4-2-3-1

Sort of, but with a much stronger central defence.

They would still be class with Villa, Xavi, and Iniesta.

Yeah I would say the defense is way stronger and a few of those equals are probably >.

Plus they don't play the same football, Barca play Tiki Taka, Arsenal just generally pass it about.

No, Barcelona pass better than Arsenal, Barcelona press better than Arsenal, Barcelona defend better than Arsenal. Barcelona are better than Arsenal.

Half of those players don't match up though.

James ♠ wrote:I've always wondered. If Messi was taken out of Barcelona would they be succesful? The amount of goals Messi creates or scores with dribbling is pretty high.


Valdes = Polish lad
Alves = Sagna
Puyol + Pique = Djourou + Koscielny
Abidal/Maxell = Clichy
Biscuit = Song
Xavi = Fabregas
Iniesta = Nasri
Pedro = Arshavin??
Villa = RVP

Which means Walcott plays where Messi would. If these 2 swapped teams would Arsenal have success like Barcelona and would Barcelona be nearly men just like Arsenal?

Discuss.

Alves is class above Sagna. Arsenals center backs don't go near Pique +Puyol
Xavi is better than fab

Villa is better than RVP

I think you got confused, the = in my post was just really the positions. Not how good players are compared to each other. The basic shape I was referring to. Obviously the defence is much stronger.

But Messi is vital to Barcelona and creates(indirectly or directly) alot with his dribbling which Arsenal don't have except for Nasri (=to Iniesta)

Totti wrote:Half of those players don't match up though.

Agreed, Nasri and Iniesta probably match up the best. Although most of the players james lined up play the same position, their roles and style are completely different, Xavi and Fabregas for example, doesn't make sense to compare.

I think the keeper is another one too tbh, Valdes is pretty good and this Polish guy is very unproven.

James, sometimes I see your threads and know you are trolling or are serious.

However today I must wonder... WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ON ABOUT NOW?

Alright, you are going off topic. This is a thread on Messi and whether Barcelona would of been so succesful without him and whether Messi replacing Walcott would have had them actually winning titles at Arsenal.

Don't be dicks, you know exactly what i'm getting at.


Guess what Polska, fuck off my thread you glory hunter. Poland is shit I hope you get bombed.

James ♠ wrote:I think you got confused, the = in my post was just really the positions. Not how good players are compared to each other. The basic shape I was referring to. Obviously the defence is much stronger.

But Messi is vital to Barcelona and creates(indirectly or directly) alot with his dribbling which Arsenal don't have except for Nasri (=to Iniesta)

Well then.

Xavi players much deeper than fab.

Villa plays on the left. Messi doesn't play on the right. He plays as a striker but he plays deep. I don't think they play similar shapes at all.

James wrote:Alright, you are going off topic. This is a thread on Messi and whether Barcelona would of been so succesful without him and whether Messi replacing Walcott would have had them actually winning titles at Arsenal.

How are we supposed to even figure something like this out, jeez, I know a lot of football discussion is hypothetical but come on.

Messi is the world's best player, of course Barcelona will win more with him in their side, Walcott isnt even the best player on his team.

Would Barcelona win w/o Messi? Of course, the players they have are amongst the best in the world.

James wrote:Don't be dicks, you know exactly what i'm getting at.


Guess what Polska, fuck off my thread you glory hunter. Poland is shit I hope you get bombed.

No we don't cause you're talking shit.

NZG wrote:

James ♠ wrote:I think you got confused, the = in my post was just really the positions. Not how good players are compared to each other. The basic shape I was referring to. Obviously the defence is much stronger.

But Messi is vital to Barcelona and creates(indirectly or directly) alot with his dribbling which Arsenal don't have except for Nasri (=to Iniesta)

Well then.

Xavi players much deeper than fab.

Villa plays on the left. Messi doesn't play on the right. He plays as a striker but he plays deep. I don't think they play similar shapes at all.

Hes not asking for you to fucking compare the formations..

But yeah we would outscore every team even with 4 silvestres at the back

Szczesny > Valdes
Koscielny > Puyol
Vermaelen > Puyol
Clichy > Maxwell/Abidal
Sagna > Alves

We definitely have the better defense. And our attack has been playing together for a much longer time. (Disclude Arshavin)
Besides, Barca would get hacked to death in the PL.. just one strong tackle on them in la liga and they're crying like little babies. How many times have their players had their legs broken because of hard tackles?

EDIT: ok, ok the second Pique is Puyol, don't get your panties in a bunch >.>

Arsenal are nowhere near like Barcelona. Barcelona are a unit who press the ball together, they make space for eachother and not one player will give less than 100%, they are all brilliant individually too.

Arsenal will have to play that game tonight, no passengers just constant pressing together, getting in to Barcelona. This is going to be one sexy fluent game or a game lost in midfield. If Arsenal play to their best, they can win. Don't forget, Barcelona have never won an away tie in the knockout stage under Guardiola.

Dena at least you answered the question in my last post. If Barcelona would still be succesful maybe Messi isn't that important to the team. I always thought Messi was massively important to Barcelona and without him they would suffer pretty badly. I don't think they would win the league without Messi.

Nikidinho wrote:Szczesny > Valdes
Koscielny > Puyol
Vermaelen > Puyol
Clichy > Maxwell/Abidal
Sagna > Alves

We definitely have the better defense. And our attack has been playing together for a much longer time. (Disclude Arshavin)
Besides, Barca would get hacked to death in the PL.. just one strong tackle on them in la liga and they're crying like little babies. How many times have their players had their legs broken because of hard tackles?

Stopped taking you serious after the first line, but @ bold

James wrote:Dena at least you answered the question in my last
post. If Barcelona would still be succesful maybe Messi isn't that
important to the team. I always thought Messi was massively important to
Barcelona and without him they would suffer pretty badly. I don't think
they would win the league without Messi.

He's brilliant, but Xavi.. Iniesta, Alves, Pedro, Villa... all fantastic players, these players alone can get the goals, I wouldn't bet against Villa and Pedro having massive seasons if Messi tore his ACL and was out for a whole season or something, Messi obviously puts them on another level but they're still a brilliant team w/o him.

James wrote:Don't be dicks, you know exactly what i'm getting at.


Guess what Polska, fuck off my thread you glory hunter. Poland is shit I hope you get bombed.

No I don't. You are being completely ignorant of footy outside England maybe? Arsenal players and Barca players don't match up at all. Maybe Nasri can have an Iniesta like day once in awhile.

They play different formations kinda, their game style is completely different, they take different approaches to game, and on top of that, their defense is a billion times better than Arsenal's.

It's not even a comparison, which is why I think this thread is ridiculous. No need to call me a gloryhunter when I am not, and Poland is a hundred times > than England so I couldn't care.

edit: Oh yah, and not to mention the line Dena quoted. (TBF I didn't read that far ) If anything, Barcelona would do the breaking. Breaking mentally that is. Expect to see Shawcross at a mental clinic after what Barca does to him and others in the PL.

Nikidinho wrote:Szczesny > Valdes
Koscielny > Puyol
Vermaelen > Puyol
Clichy > Maxwell/Abidal
Sagna > Alves

We definitely have the better defense. And our attack has been playing together for a much longer time. (Disclude Arshavin)
Besides, Barca would get hacked to death in the PL.. just one strong tackle on them in la liga and they're crying like little babies. How many times have their players had their legs broken because of hard tackles?

Does this post have anything to do with this thread? I'm not discussing the game or any players talent except Messis and maybe Walcotts.

Mal wrote:Arsenal are nowhere near like Barcelona. Barcelona are a unit who press the ball together, they make space for eachother and not one player will give less than 100%, they are all brilliant individually too.

Arsenal will have to play that game tonight, no passengers just constant pressing together, getting in to Barcelona. This is going to be one sexy fluent game or a game lost in midfield. If Arsenal play to their best, they can win. Don't forget, Barcelona have never won an away tie in the knockout stage under Guardiola.

I still reckon 3-0 Barca although I hope i'm wrong.

Theeeooo wrote:

NZG wrote:

James ♠ wrote:I think you got confused, the = in my post was just really the positions. Not how good players are compared to each other. The basic shape I was referring to. Obviously the defence is much stronger.

But Messi is vital to Barcelona and creates(indirectly or directly) alot with his dribbling which Arsenal don't have except for Nasri (=to Iniesta)

Well then.

Xavi players much deeper than fab.

Villa plays on the left. Messi doesn't play on the right. He plays as a striker but he plays deep. I don't think they play similar shapes at all.

Hes not asking for you to fucking compare the formations..

But yeah we would outscore every team even with 4 silvestres at the back

Positions of the player. His Opening post was wrong. They do not line up.

And No you wouldn't outscore anyone with 4 silvestres at the back. You'll lose every game that way.

Nikidinho wrote:Szczesny > Valdes
Koscielny > Puyol
Vermaelen > Puyol
Clichy > Maxwell/Abidal
Sagna > Alves

Dena, thanks for staying on topic.



Polska, I am not comparing formations. I am not comparing styles of play. This is simply would Barcelona be as succesful without Messi and would Arsenal be more succesful with a Messi in their team.


When you stop calling Arsenal "we" that is when you'll stop being called a glory hunter you gimp.

And if Poland is so good what the fuck are you lot doing over here??

Mal wrote:Arsenal are nowhere near like Barcelona. Barcelona are a unit who press the ball together, they make space for eachother and not one player will give less than 100%, they are all brilliant individually too.

Arsenal will have to play that game tonight, no passengers just constant pressing together, getting in to Barcelona. This is going to be one sexy fluent game or a game lost in midfield. If Arsenal play to their best, they can win. Don't forget, Barcelona have never won an away tie in the knockout stage under Guardiola.

Thing is, the way that the CL ties are formatted you don't really need to win away games. But I see your point, Barcelona can be had, came off a bad performance vs. Gijon, most of their players played in internationals last week at this time as well, so some are playing their 3rd game in a week.

James ♠ wrote:

Nikidinho wrote:Szczesny > Valdes
Koscielny > Puyol
Vermaelen > Puyol
Clichy > Maxwell/Abidal
Sagna > Alves

We definitely have the better defense. And our attack has been playing together for a much longer time. (Disclude Arshavin)
Besides, Barca would get hacked to death in the PL.. just one strong tackle on them in la liga and they're crying like little babies. How many times have their players had their legs broken because of hard tackles?

Does this post have anything to do with this thread? I'm not discussing the game or any players talent except Messis and maybe Walcotts.

You are, you said are if they swapped Messi and Walcott would Arsenal be like Barca. People are saying that the Arsenal players aren't as good (or better in this guys case) so are saying they wouldn't (or would) be like Barca.

Four Silvestres? The horror.....

Nikidinho wrote:Szczesny > Valdes
Koscielny > Puyol
Vermaelen > Puyol
Clichy > Maxwell/Abidal
Sagna > Alves

We definitely have the better defense. And our attack has been playing together for a much longer time. (Disclude Arshavin)
Besides, Barca would get hacked to death in the PL.. just one strong tackle on them in la liga and they're crying like little babies. How many times have their players had their legs broken because of hard tackles?

Barca have 2 Puyols at the back too? Guess Pique is pretty pissed off.

James wrote:Dena, thanks for staying on topic.



Polska, I am not comparing formations. I am not comparing styles of play. This is simply would Barcelona be as succesful without Messi and would Arsenal be more succesful with a Messi in their team.


When you stop calling Arsenal "we" that is when you'll stop being called a glory hunter you gimp.

And if Poland is so good what the fuck are you lot doing over here??

1st line - Well obvi-fucking-ously Arsenal would be better with Messi. Barcelona would learn to cope without him, though may take some time to get the new formation in sync. Still if you aren't comparing all those things, then why even compare?

2nd line - I hardly gloryhunt Arsenal. I follow them and am a 'fan' of Wenger and the team.

3rd line - Higher wages. When wages in Poland reach par with Western Europe we will come back because Poland is awesome like that.

Zzonked wrote:

James ♠ wrote:

Nikidinho wrote:Szczesny > Valdes
Koscielny > Puyol
Vermaelen > Puyol
Clichy > Maxwell/Abidal
Sagna > Alves

We definitely have the better defense. And our attack has been playing together for a much longer time. (Disclude Arshavin)
Besides, Barca would get hacked to death in the PL.. just one strong tackle on them in la liga and they're crying like little babies. How many times have their players had their legs broken because of hard tackles?

Does this post have anything to do with this thread? I'm not discussing the game or any players talent except Messis and maybe Walcotts.

You are, you said are if they swapped Messi and Walcott would Arsenal be like Barca. People are saying that the Arsenal players aren't as good (or better in this guys case) so are saying they wouldn't (or would) be like Barca.

Didn't even mention Messi or Walcott in his post. I assumed it was someone not reading my edit in first post and just started complaining that I compared random players.