Liverpool FC Official Thread

Look how quick you're replying lmao. Ugly cunt.

*insert pictures of Gollum and McLovin*.

Theo why have you put a ring in a disabled toilet?

Scott do you sell other stationary?

I don't sell any stationary

Doesn't sound like a very good stationary business then.

My sides are splitting at the sheer wit.

Oliver Kay ‏@OliverKayTimes 2m2 minutes ago
Confirmed: Hillsborough inquest records verdict that the 96 victims were unlawfully killed. Twenty-seven years later.

Justice finally served

You can stop blaming the fans now, RR.

Great, does that mean they'll finally be shutting the fuck about it?

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Great, does that mean they'll finally be shutting the fuck about it?

And you call me a cunt.

They haven't been "shutting the fuck up" about it all this time because of the conspiracy, lies and cover ups.

Even if one accepts the inquest verdict - and if there's one thing this whole disgrace has taught us, it's that you can't trust the system - I still hold Liverpool fans partly responsible. Would policing have been so severe and the situation handled so badly if Liverpool's fans hadn't killed dozens of people in 1985? We all know the answer to that question.

The policing was bad, yes, but it didn't exist in a vacuum. It was a reaction to the fan/hooligan culture at the time. They were trying to keep people safe and they failed. Sad. The only good to come out of it is that lessons have been learned from it and nothing has happened since.

I hope it goes without saying that the cover up afterwards was a disgrace, it should never have happened. No positives from that.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Even if one accepts the inquest verdict - and if there's one thing this whole disgrace has taught us, it's that you can't trust the system - I still hold Liverpool fans partly responsible.  Would policing have been so severe and the situation handled so badly if Liverpool's fans hadn't killed dozens of people in 1985?  We all know the answer to that question.

The policing was bad, yes, but it didn't exist in a vacuum.  It was a reaction to the fan/hooligan culture at the time.  They were trying to keep people safe and they failed.  Sad.  The only good to come out of it is that lessons have been learned from it and nothing has happened since.

I hope it goes without saying that the cover up afterwards was a disgrace, it should never have happened.  No positives from that.

I don't understand how the jury came to the conclusion that "no supporter's misbehavior contributed to the danger" when it clearly did. Also I think it's ridiculous that today's standard's are being applied to 27 years ago.

Nail on head from Boris.

Theo Filippo wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Even if one accepts the inquest verdict - and if there's one thing this whole disgrace has taught us, it's that you can't trust the system - I still hold Liverpool fans partly responsible.  Would policing have been so severe and the situation handled so badly if Liverpool's fans hadn't killed dozens of people in 1985?  We all know the answer to that question.

The policing was bad, yes, but it didn't exist in a vacuum.  It was a reaction to the fan/hooligan culture at the time.  They were trying to keep people safe and they failed.  Sad.  The only good to come out of it is that lessons have been learned from it and nothing has happened since.

I hope it goes without saying that the cover up afterwards was a disgrace, it should never have happened.  No positives from that.

I don't understand how the jury came to the conclusion that "no supporter's misbehavior contributed to the danger" when it clearly did. Also I think it's ridiculous that today's standard's are being applied to 27 years ago.

I was a bit bemused by that one too. Then again if I was in a room with hundreds of angry scousers convinced they're on a never ending quest for justice eyeballing me for two years I'd probably say whatever they wanted me to as well.

Theo Filippo wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Even if one accepts the inquest verdict - and if there's one thing this whole disgrace has taught us, it's that you can't trust the system - I still hold Liverpool fans partly responsible.  Would policing have been so severe and the situation handled so badly if Liverpool's fans hadn't killed dozens of people in 1985?  We all know the answer to that question.

The policing was bad, yes, but it didn't exist in a vacuum.  It was a reaction to the fan/hooligan culture at the time.  They were trying to keep people safe and they failed.  Sad.  The only good to come out of it is that lessons have been learned from it and nothing has happened since.

I hope it goes without saying that the cover up afterwards was a disgrace, it should never have happened.  No positives from that.

I don't understand how the jury came to the conclusion that "no supporter's misbehavior contributed to the danger"

Because it didn't. The fans have been exonerated. Case closed. Continuing to peddle your agenda only serves to make you look pathetic.

From what I've understood the reason fans were cleared of any blame was because their was a reasonable expectation that the police should have been adequately prepared to deal with them.

That doesn't make sense to me at all. Yeah if people want to say the police were majorly to blame then fine, cover ups, lies etc.. yeah all wrong. But if fans weren't doing something that they shouldn't have been doing then the police wouldn't have been put in the position in the 1st place. Surely some blame needs to be placed at the feet of yobbish fans.

I think it's because people have a problem with nuance. Blame some fans and for some people it's like you're blaming all Liverpool fans including the 96 that died. That's why I never understood the "justice for the 96" tagline, has anyone ever blamed those 96 people and said they died because of their own faults? I personally never seen that said.

The jury also concluded:

• Police errors caused a dangerous situation at the turnstiles
  
  
• Failures by commanding officers caused a crush on the terraces
  
  
• There were mistakes in the police control box over the order to open the Leppings Lane end exit gates
  
  
• Defects at the stadium, including calculations over crowd capacity, contributed to the disaster
  
  
• There was an error in the safety certification of the Hillsborough stadium
  
  
• South Yorkshire Police (SYP) and South Yorkshire Ambulance Service (SYAS) delayed declaring a major incident
  
  
• The emergency response was therefore delayed
  
  
• Sheffield Wednesday failed to approve the plans for dedicated turnstiles for each pen
  
  
• There was inadequate signage at the club and misleading information on match tickets
  
  
• Club officials should have requested a delay in kick off as they were aware of a huge number of fans outside shortly before the game was due to start
  
  

Not sure how fan's "misbehaviour" is at fault for any of the above. 

Actually, what exactly are you accusing Liverpool fans of doing? Having a few beers? Tons of match-going fans from all over the world do that.

Keyser Söze wrote:From what I've understood the reason fans were cleared of any blame was because their was a reasonable expectation that the police should have been adequately prepared to deal with them.

That doesn't make sense to me at all. Yeah if people want to say the police were majorly to blame then fine, cover ups, lies etc.. yeah all wrong. But if fans weren't doing something that they shouldn't have been doing then the police wouldn't have been put in the position in the 1st place. Surely some blame needs to be placed at the feet of yobbish fans.

I think it's because people have a problem with nuance. Blame some fans and for some people it's like you're blaming all Liverpool fans including the 96 that died. That's why I never understood the "justice for the 96" tagline, has anyone ever blamed those 96 people and said they died because of their own faults? I personally never seen that said.

Which is what?

That's certainly all true but if reasons such as club officials not requesting kick off to be delayed contributed to the disaster then ticket-less fans overcrowding stands also does.

Theo Filippo wrote:That's certainly all true but if reasons such as club officials not requesting kick off to be delayed contributed to the disaster then ticket-less fans overcrowding stands also does.

Denying ticketless fans entrance is the responsibility of the people in charge. Fans all over the world try to get into stadiums without a ticket. It just so happened that on this case, they let them in.

Significant numbers of ticketless fans showed up and tried to force their way in. That meant police were put into a position where they needed to act. Ok the jury has decided that the subsequent decisions that police made were erroneous and that contributed to the situations (probably majorly). But the point is that police would not have been in the position if those fans hadn't done something they shouldn't have been doing.

Keyser Söze wrote:Significant numbers of ticketless fans showed up and tried to force their way in. That meant police were put into a position where they needed to act. Ok the jury has decided that the subsequent decisions that police made were erroneous and that contributed to the situations (probably majorly). But the point is that police would not have been in the position if those fans hadn't done something they shouldn't have been doing.    

That happens all the time, though. It's up to the people in charge to prevent this from happening. Every game I've ever gone to, there's been tons of ticketless fans turning up with the intention of trying to get in.

Theo Filippo wrote:

Nail on head from Boris.

This is absolutely perfect.

Scott_LFC wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:Significant numbers of ticketless fans showed up and tried to force their way in. That meant police were put into a position where they needed to act. Ok the jury has decided that the subsequent decisions that police made were erroneous and that contributed to the situations (probably majorly). But the point is that police would not have been in the position if those fans hadn't done something they shouldn't have been doing.    

That happens all the time, though. It's up to the people in charge to prevent this from happening. Every game I've ever gone to, there's been tons of ticketless fans turning up with the intention of trying to get in.

I've personally never been to an Arsenal game and seen a large group of fans try to force their way in without tickets, but it's a different time and a different club culture. I'll agree with you that it's not a unique situation and even more so 27 years ago. Still doesn't mean it's OK. You're not supposed to turn up to a game you don't have a ticket for and try and force your way in, that's misbehaviour. If fans had behaved then the situation would not have arisen in the 1st place.

Keyser Söze wrote:

Scott_LFC wrote:

That happens all the time, though. It's up to the people in charge to prevent this from happening. Every game I've ever gone to, there's been tons of ticketless fans turning up with the intention of trying to get in.

I've personally never been to an Arsenal game and seen a large group of fans try to force their way in without tickets, but it's a different time and a different club culture. I'll agree with you that it's not a unique situation and even more so 27 years ago. Still doesn't mean it OK. You're not supposed to turn up to a game you don't have a ticket for and try and force your way in, that's misbehaviour. If fans had behaved then the situation would not have arisen in the 1st place.

You're missing the point. At the time it was such common practise for fans to turn up without tickets. Everywhere. That's the purpose of turnstiles.. and the people who work at them.. to prevent these people from coming in. The fact the officials failed to do their job on the day of a Liverpool match is purely a coincidence. It could have happened to any set of fans. Had Liverpool been knocked out of the competition earlier and say, United fans were traveling to that stadium, the exact same thing would have happened.

Aka the blame lies fully on the officials.

Scott_LFC wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:

I've personally never been to an Arsenal game and seen a large group of fans try to force their way in without tickets, but it's a different time and a different club culture. I'll agree with you that it's not a unique situation and even more so 27 years ago. Still doesn't mean it OK. You're not supposed to turn up to a game you don't have a ticket for and try and force your way in, that's misbehaviour. If fans had behaved then the situation would not have arisen in the 1st place.

You're missing the point. At the time it was such common practise for fans to turn up without tickets. Everywhere. That's the purpose of turnstiles.. and the people who work at them.. to prevent these people from coming in. The fact the officials failed to do their job on the day of a Liverpool match is purely a coincidence. It could have happened to any set of fans. Had Liverpool been knocked out of the competition earlier and say, United fans were traveling to that stadium, the exact same thing would have happened.

I think you've missed my point. You seem to think it's either the officials or the fans, one or either. If you see my original point you'll see I posted that if people want to say officials were predominantly to blame then I don't have a problem with that. It's the part about fans having nothing to do with it that's simply wrong from a very basic rational.

"common practise". Is that meant to be an excuse, it's OK to do something wrong so long as it's "common practise". If only those fans that had tickets had shown up then none of this would have happened. Fan did something they weren't supposed to do and it caused a situation that was badly handled. If fans don't do that thing they aren't supposed to do then the situation doesn't arise. Some blame should be leveled at some of the fans.

I don't know what would have happened had United fans been there instead. Maybe no or less tickless fans would have shown up, maybe they would have been more docile and left without a fuss. Can't say.

I am not trying to be funny, but I have always wondered why there are so many ceremonies/laying of wreaths in honour of this disaster.  I swear they occur more than once a year at Liverpool matches.